Trumps claims of fraud in cities don't make sense

SimplyMe · Nov 17, 2020

The issue is, the vote in the cities isn't much different than it was in 2016 -- in fact, in both Detroit and Philadelphia Hillary Clinton got a higher percentage of the vote than Joe Biden did. Instead, where Trump lost the election is in the suburbs.

As such, the claims of the Trump campaign of the election being stolen by "Democratic cities" is not true -- that is not where he lost the election. Instead, he lost the election in the largely Republican suburbs, and that also explains why Trump lost but Republicans tended to win, such as in Senate and House races, in those same suburbs.

Hans Blaster · Nov 17, 2020

SimplyMe said:
The issue is, the vote in the cities isn't much different than it was in 2016 -- in fact, in both Detroit and Philadelphia Hillary Clinton got a higher percentage of the vote than Joe Biden did. Instead, where Trump lost the election is in the suburbs.

As such, the claims of the Trump campaign of the election being stolen by "Democratic cities" is not true -- that is not where he lost the election. Instead, he lost the election in the largely Republican suburbs, and that also explains why Trump lost but Republicans tended to win, such as in Senate and House races, in those same suburbs.

Sure, the results don't speak to fraud in those places, but the problem here is that this isn't the strategy. The strategy is to invalidate the votes of the largest pools of Democratic voters in each close state. Wayne Co. (MI), Philadelphia (PA), Milwaukee (WI), Fulton (GA) each provided Biden a larger margin of victory in those counties than the whole state overall. This is a blatant attempt to "flip" the state by saying certain voters don't count. They don't actually care about fraud, they care about making enough noise that they can delay or prevent certification and get the legislatures to appoint pro-Trump elector slates.

Valletta · Nov 17, 2020

SimplyMe said:
The issue is, the vote in the cities isn't much different than it was in 2016 -- in fact, in both Detroit and Philadelphia Hillary Clinton got a higher percentage of the vote than Joe Biden did. Instead, where Trump lost the election is in the suburbs.

As such, the claims of the Trump campaign of the election being stolen by "Democratic cities" is not true -- that is not where he lost the election. Instead, he lost the election in the largely Republican suburbs, and that also explains why Trump lost but Republicans tended to win, such as in Senate and House races, in those same suburbs.

Election results have not been certified. Votes were processed in Philadelphia and Detroit, and Republican observers were illegally prevented from being able to verify the counting process. This should outrage every American. For those of us who watched the election result come in, Trump was on his way to victory when suddenly the counting stopped in major cities. People were asking what in the world is going on. The story was that counters decided to take a break. Upon the return to counting the vote count switched dramatically for Joe. Barring observation was illegal, and an illegal counting process should not be accepted by any of us.

Sparagmos · Nov 17, 2020

Valletta said:
and Republican observers were illegally prevented from being able to verify the counting process.

No they weren’t. There were many Republican observers, the vast majority of whom reported zero
Issues.

Valletta said:
The story was that counters decided to take a break

LOL what? You mean to sleep? You want people to count votes for three days straight without sleep?What city are you referring to?

Valletta said:
Trump was on his way to victory when suddenly the counting stopped in major cities.

Wait - wasn’t Trump calling for the counting to stop? Weren’t Trump supporters chanting “stop the count?”

SeventyOne · Nov 17, 2020

SimplyMe said:
The issue is, the vote in the cities isn't much different than it was in 2016 -- in fact, in both Detroit and Philadelphia Hillary Clinton got a higher percentage of the vote than Joe Biden did. Instead, where Trump lost the election is in the suburbs.

As such, the claims of the Trump campaign of the election being stolen by "Democratic cities" is not true -- that is not where he lost the election. Instead, he lost the election in the largely Republican suburbs, and that also explains why Trump lost but Republicans tended to win, such as in Senate and House races, in those same suburbs.

Cool opinion. One day soon we'll find out if you are close to being accurate or not.

Tanj · Nov 17, 2020

Valletta said:
Election results have not been certified. Votes were processed in Philadelphia and Detroit, and Republican observers were illegally prevented from being able to verify the counting process.

All of the courts disagree with you.

This should outrage every American.

if "this" refers to the constant repetition of unproven, tossed out of court, baseless fantasies then yes, yes it should

SimplyMe · Nov 17, 2020

Valletta said:
Election results have not been certified. Votes were processed in Philadelphia and Detroit, and Republican observers were illegally prevented from being able to verify the counting process. This should outrage every American.

As was pointed out, this is false -- as evidenced by the various court cases where this was argued by the Trump campaign lawyers, that all failed. The one that didn't fail was the "safety distance" of 10 feet in Philadelphia, due to the Coronavirus, was shortened to 6 feet. While the Trump campaign has claimed that observers haven't had access, they've lost these suits -- and even been forced by the court to admit that observers were present -- in Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Valletta said:
For those of us who watched the election result come in, Trump was on his way to victory when suddenly the counting stopped in major cities. People were asking what in the world is going on. The story was that counters decided to take a break. Upon the return to counting the vote count switched dramatically for Joe. Barring observation was illegal, and an illegal counting process should not be accepted by any of us.

Oddly, it has been known since September, or earlier, that there could be a "red mirage" -- that the in-person vote, which would be counted first in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, would skew towards Trump. Then, when the mail-in ballots would be counted, since Pres. Trump consistently bad-mouthed mail in voting to his supporters, that Biden would gain ground since it would largely be votes by Democrats. This was not a surprise; election officials knew it would happen for two months or more.

But, in contrast, in states where mail-in votes and early voting was counted first, like Texas and Florida, Biden shot out to an early lead, a "Blue mirage," and Trump came back to win. Should we assume that there was fraud in the Trump states -- that they stole the states from Biden with that late surge of Republican votes?

SimplyMe · Nov 17, 2020

SeventyOne said:
Cool opinion. One day soon we'll find out if you are close to being accurate or not.

Not my opinion. First, you can check the vote results I talk about - the vote counts are fact. One analysis of the vote counts is linked (the Brookings Institute) though there are a large number of similar analysis that have been done by others.

Erik Nelson · Nov 18, 2020

Valletta said:
when suddenly the counting stopped in major cities.

counting "stopped" or counting actually finished (with Trump in the lead... until more ballots arrived in the middle of the night) ?

Erik Nelson · Nov 18, 2020

SimplyMe said:
where Trump lost the election is in the suburbs

Exactly where Dominion voting machines were utilized:

Valletta · Nov 18, 2020

SimplyMe said:
The issue is, the vote in the cities isn't much different than it was in 2016 -- in fact, in both Detroit and Philadelphia Hillary Clinton got a higher percentage of the vote than Joe Biden did. Instead, where Trump lost the election is in the suburbs.

As such, the claims of the Trump campaign of the election being stolen by "Democratic cities" is not true -- that is not where he lost the election. Instead, he lost the election in the largely Republican suburbs, and that also explains why Trump lost but Republicans tended to win, such as in Senate and House races, in those same suburbs.

There is no ques

Valletta said:
Election results have not been certified. Votes were processed in Philadelphia and Detroit, and Republican observers were illegally prevented from being able to verify the counting process. This should outrage every American. For those of us who watched the election result come in, Trump was on his way to victory when suddenly the counting stopped in major cities. People were asking what in the world is going on. The story was that counters decided to take a break. Upon the return to counting the vote count switched dramatically for Joe. Barring observation was illegal, and an illegal counting process should not be accepted by any of us.

The media has no authority to certify an election--that is a government function. Chris Wallace asked the question, as a member of the media he should know the difference, and so should Biden.

Tanj · Nov 18, 2020

Erik Nelson said:
Exactly where Dominion voting machines were utilized:

Apart from Georgia thats Mississippi, Louisiana, Missouri, and Virginia. Yeah, that's an outstanding argument Erik, you have outdone your self. You should join Guilliani's team.

Hans Blaster · Nov 18, 2020

Valletta said:
Election results have not been certified. Votes were processed in Philadelphia and Detroit, and Republican observers were illegally prevented from being able to verify the counting process. This should outrage every American. For those of us who watched the election result come in, Trump was on his way to victory when suddenly the counting stopped in major cities. People were asking what in the world is going on. The story was that counters decided to take a break. Upon the return to counting the vote count switched dramatically for Joe. Barring observation was illegal, and an illegal counting process should not be accepted by any of us.

Here's the thing:

When you wrote this message, the election results in Detroit *HAD* been certified, as they are in all of Michigan as of Tues, Nov. 17.

Hans Blaster · Nov 18, 2020

Erik Nelson said:
Exactly where Dominion voting machines were utilized:

It's almost as if some states chose Dominion as their sole or partial provider of ballot counting machines and some didn't. Shocking.

Valletta · Nov 18, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
Here's the thing:

When you wrote this message, the election results in Detroit *HAD* been certified, as they are in all of Michigan as of Tues, Nov. 17.

Thanks for the update, but we are talking about enough certified electoral votes for victory. Joe did not say that he would wait for just one state to certify before declaring himself a winner.

Valletta · Nov 18, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
Sure, the results don't speak to fraud in those places, but the problem here is that this isn't the strategy. The strategy is to invalidate the votes of the largest pools of Democratic voters in each close state. Wayne Co. (MI), Philadelphia (PA), Milwaukee (WI), Fulton (GA) each provided Biden a larger margin of victory in those counties than the whole state overall. This is a blatant attempt to "flip" the state by saying certain voters don't count. They don't actually care about fraud, they care about making enough noise that they can delay or prevent certification and get the legislatures to appoint pro-Trump elector slates.

Not true, there was widespread wrongdoing by Democrat counters, it is outrageous.

Hans Blaster · Nov 18, 2020

Valletta said:
Not true, there was widespread wrongdoing by Democrat counters, it is outrageous.

What are "Democrat counters"? Are they the people who count the attendance at the Democrats' convention or other events? Why should we care if they inflate the numbers at rallies? No one cares about rally attendance.

SimplyMe · Nov 18, 2020

Valletta said:
There is no ques

The media has no authority to certify an election--that is a government function. Chris Wallace asked the question, as a member of the media he should know the difference, and so should Biden.

What independent group has the authority to "certify" an election? The fact is none do, which is why you have to look at the full context of what was said, much like I hear when Pres. Trump is criticized for things he says.

Valletta · Nov 18, 2020

SimplyMe said:
What independent group has the authority to "certify" an election? The fact is none do, which is why you have to look at the full context of what was said, much like I hear when Pres. Trump is criticized for things he says.

Election certification is a government function, the media has NO authority to certify an election. There is nothing in the Constitution that gives the media such powers. Never has there been so much evidence of election wrongdoing, and every American who cares about the future of this nation should be appalled at what took place.

Tanj · Nov 18, 2020

Valletta said:
Election certification is a government function, the media has NO authority to certify an election. There is nothing in the Constitution that gives the media such powers. Never has there been so much evidence of election wrongdoing, and every American who cares about the future of this nation should be appalled at what took place.

What are you talking about. There's 0 evidence of any election wrong doing. The only appalling thing is the lies and misinformation claiming there is

Trumps claims of fraud in cities don't make sense

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