What About Progressive Sanctification?

RickReads

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My words affirmed that the merit of the cross is understood to stem from the (freely willed) suffering involved (the self-sacrificial effort).

If you're referring to that as gibberish, or claiming it to be something foreign to your understanding, pardon me for having difficulty believing that you are serious.

I am serious, honest injun. I don`t understand many of the things you say.
 
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JAL

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I am serious, honest injun. I don`t understand many of the things you say.
Please try to find an article about the atonement that talks about the role and significance of Christ's suffering. Evidently I've been unable to convey that information to you.
 
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RickReads

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Please try to find an article about the atonement that talks about the role and significance of Christ's suffering. Evidently I've been unable to convey that information to you.

If use Bible once in while might help :scratch:
 
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JAL

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Your job to find it. You`ve put a lot of spam on my thread since then. Would have been night of 14th.
Look, this seems just an excuse not to respond to post 850. I'm not going on some wild goose chase, as I've already fallen behind on some of my normal responsibilities. I don't have the extra time.
 
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QvQ

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Sure. I praise my girlfriend for her pretty face. But that's not the question being asked here. The questions are these:
(1) Does my girlfriend MERIT praise for innate characteristics? No.
(2) What kind of a jerk DEMANDS praise for innate characteristics? A big one!

You're extrapolating to an infinite past. Utter nonsense. If an infinite past has to transpire before today, then today would never have been reached. Only a finite past, therefore, is logically conceivable.

Imperfect? Yes. Yahweh is negligibly fallible - meaning He is sufficiently competent to prevent even one iota of undue perceptible suffering ever befalling any of us, he is the ultimate Protector. And that's all we need. Yahweh has a job to do, and He does it quite well, thank your very much. There is no need for Him to conform to some ideal philosophical standard of infinite knowledge - some ridiculous standard concocted by men.

Therefore - setting aside inane, useless philosphical standards - He is by practical standards absolutely perfect/infallible. He will never fail us.
1) Praising beauty is acknowledgment of beauty. It is an admission that I see beauty and I appreciate it.
2) Praise is not elicited based on merit. Praised is elicited by wonder and awe of the object praised, a sunset, the smile of a child, the awesome majesty of the ocean.
Genesis 1:1 In the Beginning, God Created.
There was before the beginning..God.
If you mean that god came into existence at the point of beginning, co-created along with the universe and both proceeded to evolve and learn, then that god is imperfect. It infers a God (logos) beyond god or before god else you are bootstrapping that god created god or god emerged as a by product of the Big Bang. It is the implication of some being or mechanism before or beyond god
 
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RickReads

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Look, this seems just an excuse not to respond to post 850. I'm not going on some wild goose chase, as I've already fallen behind on some of my normal responsibilities. I don't have the extra time.

I would actually enjoy ripping 850 apart. But not going to expend my valuable time when you don`t have enough respect to answer a post that gives your opinions a major challenge. I type slow, I gave you valuable time, you show disrespect to an elder, feel free to get lost.
 
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JAL

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I would actually enjoy ripping 850 apart. But not going to expend my valuable time when you don`t have enough respect to answer a post that gives your opinions a major challenge. I type slow, I gave you valuable time, you show disrespect to an elder, feel free to get lost.
Again, number of the post?
 
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First of all, please address Post 850 before proceeding further. That is my challenge to anyone monitoring this thread.

As for "suppressing omniscience" - call it whatever you like. If today I know Hebrew, and then tomorrow, I no longer know it, and then the next day I begin learning it again, that's change. That's not immutability.

If you insist on calling it immutability, then at some point it becomes evident that you are using words such as "changeable" and "immutable" as synonyms - in essence a distinction without a difference.

My point was not about the theological doctrine of the immutability of God. I did not bring up such a doctrine to my memory here in this thread.

So my point was about Christ “suppressing Omniscience” was in defense of the truth in Scripture on behalf of how He was able to grow in wisdom and yet He was able to still retain power as God. I did not seek to defend Immutability but I was defending how Jesus was limited in knowledge and yet He still had power as GOD. That is the position I was promoting; It was not Immutability.

Jesus grew in knowledge.

“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.” (Luke 2:52).

But this does not mean Jesus did not have power as God.
For we know by the Scriptures that Jesus clearly had power as God.

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).​

So while Jesus had appeared to not have Omniscience, this does not mean He did not have power as God. For the Scriptures make it clear He did have power (Which runs against certain circles in Theological groups who say He emptied Himself).
 
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JAL

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1) Praising beauty is acknowledgment of beauty. It is an admission that I see beauty and I appreciate it.
2) Praise is not elicited based on merit. Praised is elicited by wonder and awe of the object praised, a sunset, the smile of a child, the awesome majesty of the ocean.
Nothing wrong with that. (Sigh). Again, that's not the questions asked here. See my last response to you - you ignored the thrust of that post. Convenient?


Genesis 1:1 In the Beginning, God Created.
There was before the beginning..God.
If you mean that god came into existence at the point of beginning...
He didn't come into existence. Matter is eternal, and conscious. God was the first person to become fully sentient.

It infers a God (logos) beyond god or before god else you are bootstrapping that god created god or god emerged as a by product of the Big Bang. It is the implication of some being or mechanism before or beyond god
You are adding a bunch of your own ideas to what I said. Convenient for you? Why not just critique what I wrote? Oh that's right. Much easier to erect strawmen.
 
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JAL

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My point was not about the theological doctrine of the immutability of God. I did not bring up such a doctrine to my memory here in this thread.

So my point was about Christ “suppressing Omniscience” was in defense of the truth in Scripture on behalf of how He was able to grow in wisdom and yet He was able to still retain power as God. I did not seek to defend Immutability but I was defending how Jesus was limited in knowledge and yet He still had power as GOD. That is the position I was promoting; It was not Immutability.

Jesus grew in knowledge.

“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.” (Luke 2:52).

But this does not mean Jesus did not have power as God.
For we know by the Scriptures that Jesus clearly had power as God.

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).​

So while Jesus had appeared to not have Omniscience, this does not mean He did not have power as God. For the Scriptures make it clear He did have power (Which runs against certain circles in Theological groups who say He emptied Himself).
Ok, in that case seems you are once again repeating issues not in dispute. (You must have a lot of free time on your hands since you apparently like to endlessly repeat stuff that we all already agree on).
 
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JAL

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How would I know after all your spam? Look it up or forget about it. I moved on since then. I told you about the post yesterday so you had your chance for a dialogue.
I'm sure everyone around here is fooled by this kind of post. Ok guy.
 
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Ok, in that case seems you are once again repeating issues not in dispute. (You must have a lot of free time on your hands since you apparently like to endlessly repeat stuff that we all already agree on).

That does not sound like a friendly Christian attitude to have, brother. Should you not rejoice that a fellow brother shares a similar truth with you?
 
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JAL

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Praise is not elicited based on merit.
Wrong question - but close. The question I'm asking is:


[Whether] Praise is deserved based on merit.
[Whether] One is worthy of praise based on merit.

And the answer to that kind of question is unequivocally Yes.
 
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JAL

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That does not sound like a friendly Christian attitude to have, brother. Should you not rejoice that a fellow brother shares a similar truth with you?
Was just an expression of surprise. I don't have that kind of extra time on my hands.
 
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