Anyone want to discuss KJVO ?

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I legitimately do not understand how you can’t see that the KJV was transcribed by scholars. You are literally simultaneously asking people to believe the KJV is the perfect work of God while then turning around and saying they should beware the men who produced it.

I believe that GOD overseen those who worked on the KJB because it was a type of translation that was unlike any other in human history. 47 translators worked on the KJB from the Antiochian line (and not the corrupt Alexandrian Egyptian line of manuscripts), and they all had to peer review one another's work. In fact, there were two opposing religious groups that worked on the KJB. They had to put aside their differences in order to work on this translation and it was checked over by the king, as well (Who was also very knowledgable of the Scriptures). The KJB was supposed to be the first Bible that was to be in the hands of the common man at the eve of the spread of printing technology to give it to the common folk. All the pieces fit together. God was giving the people the Word of God in history. But 400 years later, an attack came upon the Word of God. Two men who were known occultists had found two manuscripts. Westcott and Hort. One manuscript was locked away in a Catholic vault. The other was found in an Orthodox monastry. These manuscripts were Alexandrian (Egyptian) in origin. They were inferior in doctrine and accuracy and yet Westcott and Hort made these two manuscripts the basis for their Greek New Testament (upon which all Modern Translations are based upon today). Yes, Nestle, and Aland had later created a Greek text (upon which all Modern Translations are based upon, too), but they used Westcott and Hort's critical text as the basis for their translation. The point here is that we can see in history, an attack upon God's Word, and it is not good by any means. Even if you were not to buy into this historical narrative that can be verified yourself, you can simply just compare the doctrines side by side for the KJB vs. Modern Translations. The Trinity, the blood atonement, the deity of Christ, holy living are all attacked and or watered down with your Modern Translations (when compared to the KJB).
 
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And if you trust in God you won’t be hindered either because God has the power to open hearts far beyond human argumentation.

If “shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!” isn’t clear then I don’t know how anything less than the Holy Spirit can make it so.

Not everyone preaches the same Jesus. Paul warned that there are those who preach another Jesus.
I believe a person can be initially saved by a Modern Translation, but if they continue in the faith, they are going to discover in time the truth and it then becomes a matter of the effectiveness of their walk with the Lord. The words of Jesus are slightly altered or changed in Modern Bibles. So it is not the same Jesus as depicted in the KJB.

If you will notice, there is massive hate against the KJB Only folk. This is not a coincidence. Why are Modern Bible proponents or OAO (Original Autograph Only) Folk so dead set on attacking the KJB? Because they know it is the Word of God. They know that the shifting sand they stand upon is only that. Sand. Sure, they may stand upon certain truths that line up with the KJB, but those other parts of the Bible that are not there is what creeps in and seeks to undermine the faith.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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I believe that GOD overseen those who worked on the KJB because it was a type of translation that was unlike any other in human history. 47 translators worked on the KJB from the Antiochian line (and not the corrupt Alexandrian Egyptian line of manuscripts), and they all had to peer review one another's work. In fact, there were two opposing religious groups that worked on the KJB. They had to put aside their differences in order to work on this translation and it was checked over by the king, as well (Who was also very knowledgable of the Scriptures). The KJB was supposed to be the first Bible that was to be in the hands of the common man at the eve of the spread of printing technology to give it to the common folk. All the pieces fit together. God was giving the people the Word of God in history. But 400 years later, an attack came upon the Word of God. Two men who were known occultists had found two manuscripts. One manuscript was locked away in a Catholic vault. The other was found in an Orthodox monastry. These manuscripts were Alexandrian (Egyptian) in origin. They were inferior in doctrine and accuracy and yet Westcott and Hort made these two manuscripts the basis for their Greek New Testament (upon which all Modern Translations are based upon today). Yes, Nestle, and Aland had later created a Greek text (upon which all Modern Translations are based upon, too), but they used Westcott and Hort's critical text as the basis for their translation. The point here is that we can see in history, an attack upon God's Word, and it is not good by any means. Even if you were not to buy into this historical narrative that can be verified yourself, you can simply just compare the doctrines side by side for the KJB vs. Modern Translations. The Trinity, the blood atonement, the deity of Christ, holy living are all attacked and or watered down with your Modern Translations (when compared to the KJB).
I’ve heard this line of reasoning before and I believe God knows the truth of it. If it’s true then God already knows, and if it’s not true I think we should be very careful when it comes to bearing witness. The sheer recklessness in asserting that certain manuscripts or translations are inferior is to me a far greater risk than reading one.
 
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And if you trust in God you won’t be hindered either because God has the power to open hearts far beyond human argumentation.

If “shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!” isn’t clear then I don’t know how anything less than the Holy Spirit can make it so.

Your not getting it. The CONDEMNATION is what is spoken about in Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. The less ammo you have to bring to the battle, the less you will be able to convince the person who truly makes God's Word His authority. The same is true with trying to convince a person who is against the Trinity. The Anti-Trinitarian will smile if you think 1 John 5:7 is not really a part of your Bible. Yet, I will stand confidently on God's Word and say it is a part of my Bible and it is inspired and is supposed to be there in my Bible. So my stand for the truth is not hindered.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Not everyone preaches the same Jesus. Paul warned that there are those who preach another Jesus.
I believe a person can be initially saved by a Modern Translation, but if they continue in the faith, they are going to discover in time the truth and it then becomes a matter of the effectiveness of their walk with the Lord. The words of Jesus are slightly altered or changed in Modern Bibles. So it is not the same Jesus as depicted in the KJB.

If you will notice, there is massive hate against the KJB Only folk. This is not a coincidence. Why are Modern Bible proponents or OAO (Original Autograph Only) Folk so dead set on attacking the KJB? Because they know it is the Word of God. They know that the shifting sand they stand upon is only that. Sand. Sure, they may stand upon certain truths that line up with the KJB, but those other parts of the Bible that are not there is what creeps in and seeks to undermine the faith.
I think the “hate” comes from the combination of feeling that they are not only incorrect but smug and self righteous in their incorrectness.

That isn’t to say I know with absolute certainty that it is an incorrect stance but rather that most polarising discussion is a result of that combination.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Your not getting it. The CONDEMNATION is what is spoken about in Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. The less ammo you have to bring to the battle, the less you will be able to convince the person who truly makes God's Word His authority. The same is true with trying to convince a person who is against the Trinity. The Anti-Trinitarian will smile if you think 1 John 5:7 is not really a part of your Bible. Yet, I will stand confidently on God's Word and say it is a part of my Bible and it is inspired and is supposed to be there in my Bible. So my stand for the truth is not hindered.
I believe you’re putting far too much confidence in your own apologetics and far too little in the grace of God.
 
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I’ve heard this line of reasoning before and I believe God knows the truth of it. If it’s true then God already knows, and if it’s not true I think we should be very careful when it comes to bearing witness. The sheer recklessness in asserting that certain manuscripts or translations are inferior is to me a far greater risk than reading one.

It's not a baseless claim. Even if you did not believe the historical narrative, any person who is looking to believe GOD's Word entirely (word for word) can see the inferiority of the Alexandrian Egyptian line of manuscripts upon which all Modern Translations come from (Note: Remember, Egypt is considered bad in the Bible)

A Side By Side Comparison With
the KJV vs. Modern Translations
Clearly Shows That They are Inferior:


A simple side by side comparison shows that the KJV is superior to the Modern Translations in regards to the deity of Christ, the blood atonement, God's Word, etc.

Note 1:
The image charts with a white background below
can be zoomed in on if you click on them.

full

full

full

full

full

full

full


Here are the sixteen whole verses that are omitted from the Bible (KJV):
  1. Matthew 17:21: "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
  2. Matthew 18:11: "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."
  3. Matthew 23:14: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."
  4. Mark 7:16: "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."
  5. Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
  6. Mark 9:46: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
  7. Mark 11:26: "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."
  8. Mark 15:28: "And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."
  9. Luke 17:36: "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
  10. John 5:4: "For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."
  11. Acts of the Apostles 8:37: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
  12. Acts of the Apostles 15:34: "Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."
  13. Acts of the Apostles 24:7: "But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,"
  14. Acts of the Apostles 28:29: "And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."
  15. Romans 16:24: "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
  16. 1 John 5:7 KJV: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
 
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I believe you’re putting far too much confidence in your own apologetics and far too little in the grace of God.

You can believe what you want, but the person who is seeking for the truth on this topic will discover it for themselves and see that I am right. Most do not want to be under a final Word of authority. They paint a broad brush stroke of certain doctrines and say that's all the truth we need and end it there. But man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds of out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4).
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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It's not a baseless claim. Even if you did not believe the historical narrative, any person who is looking to believe GOD's Word entirely (word for word) can see the inferiority of the Alexandrian Egyptian line of manuscripts (Note: Remember, Egypt is considered bad in the Bible).

A Side By Side Comparison With
the KJV vs. Modern Translations
Clearly Shows That They are Inferior:


A simple side by side comparison shows that the KJV is superior to the Modern Translations in regards to the deity of Christ, the blood atonement, God's Word, etc.

Note 1:
The image charts with a white background below
can be zoomed in on if you click on them.

full

full

full

full

full

full

full


Here are the sixteen whole verses that are omitted from the Bible (KJV):
  1. Matthew 17:21: "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
  2. Matthew 18:11: "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."
  3. Matthew 23:14: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."
  4. Mark 7:16: "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."
  5. Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
  6. Mark 9:46: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
  7. Mark 11:26: "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."
  8. Mark 15:28: "And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."
  9. Luke 17:36: "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
  10. John 5:4: "For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."
  11. Acts of the Apostles 8:37: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
  12. Acts of the Apostles 15:34: "Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."
  13. Acts of the Apostles 24:7: "But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,"
  14. Acts of the Apostles 28:29: "And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."
  15. Romans 16:24: "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
  16. 1 John 5:7 KJV: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Like I’ve said I’ve heard this reasoning before.

God will judge the truth of it.

This is one way I believe there’s a difference between saying God is the final authority vs saying scriptures are the final authority.

If scripture is the final authority, this argument implies the final authority can be undermined.

If God is the final authority, he can not be undermined.
 
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Strong in Him

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Again, all Modern Translations come from the Alexandrian Egypt line of manuscripts. Egypt is bad according to the Bible.

Egypt provided Jacob and his sons with food when there was a famine and they were in danger of starving. They didn't stay in their own land and trust God; they went to Egypt.
Egypt provided safety for the Holy family when Herod was trying to kill the Son of God.

There are only two major line of manuscripts in use primarily today.
The Textus Receptus line (KJB) (Antiochian) (i.e. Antioch is where Christians were first called Christians), and then there is the Egyptian (Alexandrian) line of manuscripts where all the Modern Translations come from. Egypt is predominatly spoken of in a negative light the Holy Bible.

That's about as logical as saying that because in Jesus' day Israel was occupied by Rome, the Romans crucified Jesus and persecuted much of the early church, any Bible which was translated from Latin is bad and anti Christian.

Notice that the Bible tells us to simply to, “Seek you out the book of the Lord, and read”
If you come to the Hebrew and Greek, it is not a book that you can just seek and just read it.
You need someone to re-interpret it for you,

A lot of people need others to interpret, and explain, the KJV to them.
Even you don't always understand it and sometimes use "tainted versions" to help you to make sense of it.
 
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I think the “hate” comes from the combination of feeling that they are not only incorrect but smug and self righteous in their incorrectness.

That isn’t to say I know with absolute certainty that it is an incorrect stance but rather that most polarising discussion is a result of that combination.

Lets just say I was mocked and laughed at plenty of times for standing up for the King James Bible. If we are all on the same team here, then we should at least lovingly disagree with one another.

Many times you will see childish one liners being repeated and or insults against KJB Only folk, and it really is not a debate or discussion using the Scriptures. In fact, I have yet to see an “OAO (Original Autograph Only)” Proponent or the “All Bibles Have Errors” Folk make a case for their position with the Holy Scriptures.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–298 – 2 May 373), also called Athanasius the Great, Athanasius the Confessor or, primarily in the Coptic Orthodox Church, Athanasius the Apostolic, was the 20th bishop of Alexandria (as Athanasius I). His intermittent episcopacy spanned 45 years (c. 8 June 328 – 2 May 373), of which over 17 encompassed five exiles, when he was replaced on the order of four different Roman emperors. Athanasius was a Christian theologian, a Church Father, the chief defender of Trinitarianism against Arianism, and a noted Egyptian leader of the fourth century.

Athanasius of Alexandria - Wikipedia
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Lets just say I was mocked and laughed at plenty of times for standing up for the King James Bible. If we are all on the same team here, then we should at least lovingly disagree with one another.

Many times you will see childish one liners being repeated and or insults against KJB Only folk, and it really is not a debate or discussion using the Scriptures. In fact, I have yet to see an OAO (Original Autograph Only) Proponent or the All Bibles have make a case for their position with the Holy Scriptures.
I agree that we should lovingly disagree, and as much as that presents a challenge we should strive to overcome.
 
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Egypt provided Jacob and his sons with food when there was a famine and they were in danger of starving. They didn't stay in their own land and trust God; they went to Egypt.
Egypt provided safety for the Holy family when Herod was trying to kill the Son of God.

On a sheet of paper, if you were to draw two columns, one saying “negative,” and another column saying “positive,” and you were to write down every time you see Egypt as being either positive or negative, you will eventually see that Egypt is predominantly negative in the Bible, and not positive. So when I say Egypt is mentioned as being predominatly negative, that is what I am referring to.

You said:
A lot of people need others to interpret, and explain, the KJV to them.

No. All they have to do is look up the word in an older dictionary most times, and read the context of the chapter; Oh, and yes. They can look at a Modern Translation. But that Modern Translation is not their final word of authority.

You said:
Even you don't always understand it and sometimes use "tainted versions" to help you to make sense of it.

I use secular dictionaries, but that does not mean I subscribe to secular views or thinking. Besides, Modern Translations are not my final word of authority. I only use what lines up with what the KJB says. I also use other sources, as well. But the key difference here is that I am not looking to correct my Bible, but I am seeking to align myself with what the Bible says that is close to my own language (Which is harder to trick people with) because we have English dictionaries with less of a religious bias than a religious scholarly dictionary. I simply believe God's Word in Psalms 12:6-7 in that God perfectly preserved His words for all generations (including this one). I believe there is a book of the Lord that can be found. A Bible that has errors in it is not perfect or the divine work of God. God is perfect in all He does.
 
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Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–298 – 2 May 373), also called Athanasius the Great, Athanasius the Confessor or, primarily in the Coptic Orthodox Church, Athanasius the Apostolic, was the 20th bishop of Alexandria (as Athanasius I). His intermittent episcopacy spanned 45 years (c. 8 June 328 – 2 May 373), of which over 17 encompassed five exiles, when he was replaced on the order of four different Roman emperors. Athanasius was a Christian theologian, a Church Father, the chief defender of Trinitarianism against Arianism, and a noted Egyptian leader of the fourth century.

Athanasius of Alexandria - Wikipedia

I am sure that is the Orthodox narrative of history. To a degree what they say may be true, but the testimony of the Alexandrian manuscripts themselves testify of the removal of 1 John 5:7 (Which is not good). Alexandria, Egypt is the region responsible for early heresies such as Gnosticism and Arianism. Both are dated in the mid to late fourth century.
 
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We are living in a day and age where people support a president who seeks to undermine our democracy or voting process. Many people are not thinking rationally in these last days. You do not have to answer to me. But every person is going to have to answer to God (Including myself). But how can we determine God's will for our lives? If the Bible is not perfectly nailed down with every word for me to figure out in a language that is close to my own, then my hands are clean of any responsibility. I don't have to seek out God's will because it would be nearly an impossible task to do so. But if I have a perfect Bible that I can hold in my hands and figure out with the use of secular older dictionaries, and other sources, then I am able to figure out God's will for my life and I am held accountable to Him fully.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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I am sure that is the Orthodox narrative of history. To a degree what they say may be true, but their claim that the Alexandrian manuscripts themselves testify of the removal of 1 John 5:7. Alexandria, Egypt is the region responsible for early heresies such as Gnosticism and Arianism. Both are dated in the mid to late fourth century.
It still shows one of the most well known teachers of the Trinity was from Alexandria which supports the idea that it’s the Holy Spirit and not a specific manuscript that truly teaches us all things.
 
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It still shows one of the most well known teachers of the Trinity was from Alexandria which supports the idea that it’s the Holy Spirit and not a specific manuscript that truly teaches us all things.

1 John 5:7 is removed from Alexandrian manuscripts, and Arianism originates from Alexandria, Egypt. So if somebody is for Arianism, they are not going to have a problem with the Modern Bibles, and it's origins.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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No. Not when 1 John 5:7 is removed, and not when Arianism originates from Alexandria, Egypt.

Athanasius was born approximately 40 years after Arius. Their lives overlapped. You literally would say “no” to the idea that the Holy Spirit was at work and instead say they must have been using different manuscripts?

Arius
(/əˈraɪəs, ˈɛəri-/; Koinē Greek: Ἄρειος, Áreios; 250 or 256–336) was a Libyan presbyter and ascetic,[1] and priest in Baucalis in Alexandria, Egypt.

Arius - Wikipedia

Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–298 – 2 May 373)

Athanasius of Alexandria - Wikipedia
 
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If Pastor Bob was a teacher of God's Word, and he corrected English Bibles, and he says that the Hebrew and Greek actually says this, the sheep like crowd is not going to really check it for themselves and they will take it by faith in their pastor in what those languages mean. After all, he went to Bible college to learn those languages. That would be too much work for them to do so. But if they learned from a King James Bible and pastor Rick says something not in line with what the KJB says, they can more readily notice that because they are reading a Bible that is closer to their own native tongue. They are able to double check a secular dictionary that does not have the same religious bias as a religious dictionary does. It's way more easier to confirm the truth.
 
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