Do we not associate with those Christians in sin, even if it hurts another Follower?

Lilgreenarmyguy

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Hey there,

I'm new here, so I apologize in advance if I'm doing anything wrong.

My wife and I are both saved and have been believers for some time now. But something happened recently that put us at a loss. Normally, I'd reach out to my Pastor, but we just moved and haven't found a new church yet.

A little bit of backstory (purely for context), my wife and I got married this year. The pandemic reeked havoc on our wedding plans and we had to split up our ceremony and our reception by several months. We had to cut down the ceremony to just family members due to the pandemic restrictions, meaning the majority of our wedding party was unable to attend. Fast forward to Sept. and we are preparing for our reception. We ask one of the groomsman in the wedding party if they will be attending. They said they wouldn't be. At the time we chalked it up to any number of reasons and gave them the benefit of the doubt. We are close with them and consider the groomsman in question and his wife to be our spiritual mentors.

My wanted a more definitive answer though and reached out to them afterward. They admitted the reason they hadn't come was because they felt convicted to not attend due to my mom's presence. A few years back, my mom cheated on my dad and ended up leaving our home church as a result. My mom and dad are still together and to my knowledge my mom hasn't stayed in her sin.

However, my wife and I were immensely hurt by this. We felt as though we were punished for something that we A) had no part in, and B) were actually victims of. It seemed, to us, that there was bitterness in them that was causing this. We brought our concerns before them as Matt. 18:15 says. They apologized for not discussing it sooner with us, but they didn't apologize for anything else. They cited Matt. 18:17 and 1 Cor. 9-11 as their main reasons for choosing not to come and celebrate with us of my mom.

This doesn't sit well with my wife and me. We felt that there would have been enough people present (many of them Christians as well) to allow them to avoid fellowshipping with her. The Bible also calls us to rejoice with those who rejoice and to weep with those who weep. My wife and I were celebrating a holy union that was created through God. Looking further past that though, the underlying implication is that they won't attend any significant life events (i.e. baby showers, vow renewals, weddings for my sisters, etc.) simply because my Mom will be there.

I was always under the assumption that 1 Cor. 5:9-11 was under the context of the Church, not life-related events like a wedding reception. The members of the Church are not to associate with a believer who wilfully lives in sin, in regard to the church body at large. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Are we (my wife and I) wrong for feeling this way? Did our friends make the godly and righteous call? Does not associating with immoral Christians supercede celebrating with and supporting other fellow believers?

Any clarity or insight on this matter is greatly appreciated. I apologize for the massive post.
 

Jeshu

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Those judgemental ones always stuff it up for everyone. Just holier then thou attitudes, i would not go along those lines of thinking. Rather treat the erring member with love and respect but don't agree on sin. Pray for them. Sin which have been forgiven by God must be forgiven by all. Sin which is outstanding? Who i am i to judge my neighbour? Rather pray for their salvation.
 
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Has your mother repented and come back into fellowship with God and her husband? If so, then these people are way off and their excuse for not wanting to attend is hogwash. The question is what are you and your wife going to do at this point. I would chalk it up to understanding some people are just like that. Don't let it get to you. Move on and don't let bitterness take root in your own lives.

Edit: The last paragraph of your post, however, lends itself to give the assumption that there is still immorality going on within professing believers. Now if that's the case then I can see where the other party had every liberty to not go to your wedding. If that is the case, then don't take it personally. They were within the boundaries of scripture. (as far as they knew) And the question I would pose to you is this: Why would you obligate them to come to your wedding if your relatives are living in sin?
 
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com7fy8

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they felt convicted to not attend due to my mom's presence.
Well, if your mother repented and stayed with your father, I don't know why they had not forgiven her, by then.

Jesus is very clear how He wants forgiveness.

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'" (Mark 11:25)

So, now that this has been brought to my attention, I myself need to obey Jesus by forgiving your mother. And possibly your mentors are in trouble, if they have not obeyed how Jesus expects us to forgive. So, I would not just be hurt; possibly they need you to mentor them.

I have been with people who do not forgive but they do know Jesus wants them to forgive. And they know they have deep problems because they keep relating with their unforgiveness, instead of living in God's love. But ones with this problem have prayed and asked God to change them so they are forgiving, and then they have done much better.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

There are people who know and live this scripture. So, please find out who some of these people are; and be one, yourself, of course; and help one another to love like this. And then you can help anyone who has failed in this, to join you. But in case your mother or mentors have failed in this, you become their example, but with the help of ones who are genuine examples who feed you. Do this as family of Jesus.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Sounds like your mother has repented and is back on track, at least as far as they know, so they have no business at all treating her this way.

I'd want to ask them if Jesus forgave them of their past sin or did he continue to hold it against them once they repented?

And welcome to CF. :)
 
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Tolworth John

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my wife and I were immensely hurt
They cited Matt. 18:17 and 1 Cor. 9-11 as their main reasons for choosing not to come and celebrate with us of my mom.

I am sorry your special day, already marred by covid, was harmed by the frankly immature biblical understanding of those who cared for.
Matt 18:17, is about bring a matter befor the hutch and has nothing to do with an individual's opinion..

May I suggest you accept there apology, pray for them and about your own hurt feelings and put the matter behind you.
How they respond to other celebrations in your family will be up to those family members.
Find a church to settle in to and get on with your life.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Hey there,

I'm new here, so I apologize in advance if I'm doing anything wrong.

My wife and I are both saved and have been believers for some time now. But something happened recently that put us at a loss. Normally, I'd reach out to my Pastor, but we just moved and haven't found a new church yet.

A little bit of backstory (purely for context), my wife and I got married this year. The pandemic reeked havoc on our wedding plans and we had to split up our ceremony and our reception by several months. We had to cut down the ceremony to just family members due to the pandemic restrictions, meaning the majority of our wedding party was unable to attend. Fast forward to Sept. and we are preparing for our reception. We ask one of the groomsman in the wedding party if they will be attending. They said they wouldn't be. At the time we chalked it up to any number of reasons and gave them the benefit of the doubt. We are close with them and consider the groomsman in question and his wife to be our spiritual mentors.

My wanted a more definitive answer though and reached out to them afterward. They admitted the reason they hadn't come was because they felt convicted to not attend due to my mom's presence. A few years back, my mom cheated on my dad and ended up leaving our home church as a result. My mom and dad are still together and to my knowledge my mom hasn't stayed in her sin.

However, my wife and I were immensely hurt by this. We felt as though we were punished for something that we A) had no part in, and B) were actually victims of. It seemed, to us, that there was bitterness in them that was causing this. We brought our concerns before them as Matt. 18:15 says. They apologized for not discussing it sooner with us, but they didn't apologize for anything else. They cited Matt. 18:17 and 1 Cor. 9-11 as their main reasons for choosing not to come and celebrate with us of my mom.

This doesn't sit well with my wife and me. We felt that there would have been enough people present (many of them Christians as well) to allow them to avoid fellowshipping with her. The Bible also calls us to rejoice with those who rejoice and to weep with those who weep. My wife and I were celebrating a holy union that was created through God. Looking further past that though, the underlying implication is that they won't attend any significant life events (i.e. baby showers, vow renewals, weddings for my sisters, etc.) simply because my Mom will be there.

I was always under the assumption that 1 Cor. 5:9-11 was under the context of the Church, not life-related events like a wedding reception. The members of the Church are not to associate with a believer who wilfully lives in sin, in regard to the church body at large. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Are we (my wife and I) wrong for feeling this way? Did our friends make the godly and righteous call? Does not associating with immoral Christians supercede celebrating with and supporting other fellow believers?

Any clarity or insight on this matter is greatly appreciated. I apologize for the massive post.


There's a difference between someone IN sin, and someone who committed a sin and sought forgiveness.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13 is about sexual sin in the church, namely a man was having sex with his stepmother or some such thing, a shocking thing even for pagans at that time.

The church both knew this was going on, yet did literally nothing about it. They tolerated it.

Paul of course told them what to do about it, remove them from the church if they wouldn't repent.

On the other hand, Matthew 18:15 says we need to seek restoration of a brother in sin.

So we don't tolerate ongoing unrepentant sin in the church. We Do seek restoration first, however.

It sounds like your mother has been restored, so theres no reason not to attend functions and welcome her back into the fold. None of us are without sin, it's only unrepentant sin we stop relations over...
 
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fm107

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A difficult one, here are my 2 cents...(I'm not interested in getting into an argument with anyone)...

Your friends are following their convictions, its not personal. They didn't tell you the reason initially because they hope to maintain your friendship and not offend you. So, don't be offended, they are trying to do the right thing before God.

Your mum was in practical fellowship with a local church, her committing adultery is such a grave sin that it demands instant excommunication. 1 Corinthians 5:11 gives a list of sins which demand excommunication. Excommunication is always with a view to restoration though.

Because your mum left the local church, this prevented the local church excommunicating her and following due order laid out in scripture.

Now even you said:

to my knowledge my mom hasn't stayed in her sin.

It sounds to me like your not sure and if your not sure of her current status in this matter, how can your friends be? They wish to err on the side of caution and please God rather than man. I can therefore understand their point of view and if I were you, don't fall out with them over this.

We felt that there would have been enough people present (many of them Christians as well) to allow them to avoid fellowshipping with her.

But by attending in the full knowledge that she will be there, they don't want to be seen condoning her behaviour. The whole idea of eating together is fellowship. It sounds like neither you nor they know if her sin is still ongoing. It's about association. There are different passages of the Bible which make mention of associations, see for example Joshua 7.

Does not associating with immoral Christians supercede celebrating with and supporting other fellow believers?

Using Old Testament language, it is more important they don't become unclean by association. Again, pleasing God is more important than celebrating obviously.

This brother and his wife are supporting you and have mentored you. They have an obligation to follow their conscience, otherwise they themselves will be sinning. Romans 14:23

You should respect their decision and not take it personally. Otherwise Satan has gained the victory here. Remember their motive - they're trying to do what is right before the Lord. You should respect that and there is really no need for you to make a big deal out of it.

That being said, there are residual questions...was your mum contrite and repentant? If so, did you explain this to your friends? What was their response? Have any elders from the church visited her?
 
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Junia

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I am sorry your special day, already marred by covid, was harmed by the frankly immature biblical understanding of those who cared for.
Matt 18:17, is about bring a matter befor the hutch and has nothing to do with an individual's opinion..

May I suggest you accept there apology, pray for them and about your own hurt feelings and put the matter behind you.
How they respond to other celebrations in your family will be up to those family members.
Find a church to settle in to and get on with your life.
I

Amen!

I think you do mean church not hutch but as someone who is crazy about guinea pigs i do smile at.the thought of a church of guinea pigs meeting in a hutch lol
 
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SirHash

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I think the original post here is very interesting.
We humans were not put here to judge. It's above our pay grade.
Your friends' lack of forgiveness certainly smells of sin but per my comment above it's not for me to say. I think you confronted it Biblically, you certainly did better than I would have. But now you and your wife need to get to a place of forgiveness of them.
Ironically, it's the same place of forgiveness that seemingly should have brought them to y'alls wedding.
You two can decide whether this couple is a bad influence to your walk or not and from there chose the degree you stay involved with them.
For my part, your parents story should be celebrated. Such grace likely employed by your father is a strong reflection of God's grace. I'm drawing a blank now of the name of the OT prophet that married an unfaithful prostitute.
God is awesome.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Hey there,

I'm new here, so I apologize in advance if I'm doing anything wrong.

My wife and I are both saved and have been believers for some time now. But something happened recently that put us at a loss. Normally, I'd reach out to my Pastor, but we just moved and haven't found a new church yet.

A little bit of backstory (purely for context), my wife and I got married this year. The pandemic reeked havoc on our wedding plans and we had to split up our ceremony and our reception by several months. We had to cut down the ceremony to just family members due to the pandemic restrictions, meaning the majority of our wedding party was unable to attend. Fast forward to Sept. and we are preparing for our reception. We ask one of the groomsman in the wedding party if they will be attending. They said they wouldn't be. At the time we chalked it up to any number of reasons and gave them the benefit of the doubt. We are close with them and consider the groomsman in question and his wife to be our spiritual mentors.

My wanted a more definitive answer though and reached out to them afterward. They admitted the reason they hadn't come was because they felt convicted to not attend due to my mom's presence. A few years back, my mom cheated on my dad and ended up leaving our home church as a result. My mom and dad are still together and to my knowledge my mom hasn't stayed in her sin.

However, my wife and I were immensely hurt by this. We felt as though we were punished for something that we A) had no part in, and B) were actually victims of. It seemed, to us, that there was bitterness in them that was causing this. We brought our concerns before them as Matt. 18:15 says. They apologized for not discussing it sooner with us, but they didn't apologize for anything else. They cited Matt. 18:17 and 1 Cor. 9-11 as their main reasons for choosing not to come and celebrate with us of my mom.

This doesn't sit well with my wife and me. We felt that there would have been enough people present (many of them Christians as well) to allow them to avoid fellowshipping with her. The Bible also calls us to rejoice with those who rejoice and to weep with those who weep. My wife and I were celebrating a holy union that was created through God. Looking further past that though, the underlying implication is that they won't attend any significant life events (i.e. baby showers, vow renewals, weddings for my sisters, etc.) simply because my Mom will be there.

I was always under the assumption that 1 Cor. 5:9-11 was under the context of the Church, not life-related events like a wedding reception. The members of the Church are not to associate with a believer who wilfully lives in sin, in regard to the church body at large. Am I wrong in this assumption?

Are we (my wife and I) wrong for feeling this way? Did our friends make the godly and righteous call? Does not associating with immoral Christians supercede celebrating with and supporting other fellow believers?

Any clarity or insight on this matter is greatly appreciated. I apologize for the massive post.
I don't recall Jesus excluding any sinner, just pharisees.

I think the bible is written the way it is so that people's true intentions will come out.
 
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aiki

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The process laid out in Matthew 18:15-17 is given as a means of maintaining fellowship, of fostering reconciliation, not separation. Too often, Christians use this passage as a process for severing ties and ostracizing fellow believers - the exact opposite of what it is intended to encourage!

Your mentor-friends have not actually followed the process in Matthew 18, it seems. Have they gone to your Mom and addressed their issues directly with her? Have they gone to her and asked her about the current character of her life spiritually? Have they sought reconciliation and understanding with her? It doesn't sound like it.
 
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