Why does Matthew 22:30 cause me SO MUCH PAIN?

Jamdoc · Nov 11, 2020

Comequickly said:
When I read the relevant verses in the Bible, it seems to me that it is God's will for us to marry and to fellowship with others, not to be alone, unless He has given you the gift of singleness and then you will not be yearning for someone but will be content in your singleness. Your misery may not be from God. I hope you can trust him in faith about this, keep praying, ask for guidance and wait upon him.

Well, in eternity it's not His will because He says it won't exist.
Even if you marry in this life, God takes it away from you.
They say it's better to have loved and lost and I guess at least then there'd be no regrets but
I can't see how this verse can be anything other than poison to joy, God's willingness to take away good things forever.

Aussie Pete · Nov 11, 2020

I'm 69. I was married for 9 years of that time. I've been on my own for 25 years. It's brought me closer to the Lord. The reality is that we are never alone. A few weeks ago, I was in hospital, in great pain with a severe illness. The COVID restrictions meant only one visitor each day, and not for long. I was never afraid and never felt alone. God's promise is that He will never leave us or forsake us. Never. When I began to recover, I had a kind of vision as to what happened in heaven. My friend phoned other Christians that we know and they also prayed. God started moving the moment I called an ambulance. Angels were helping, although I did not see them. Christian nurses and doctors "just happened" to be working when I was admitted. It was in many ways a terrible ordeal; in others a blessed experience seeing God do miracles.

I'm not a great man of faith at all. It took the Lord about 40 years to break down my natural dependence on my own intellect and reason. One day, the light broke through and I've never been the same since. You do not have to wait that long. Ask God to give you His perspective and His understanding so that you see it from His point of view. He sees what we do not and He knows what we do not know. God is Love, so you can always trust His unfailing mercy and grace.

Aussie Pete · Nov 11, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Well, in eternity it's not His will because He says it won't exist.
Even if you marry in this life, God takes it away from you.
They say it's better to have loved and lost and I guess at least then there'd be no regrets but
I can't see how this verse can be anything other than poison to joy, God's willingness to take away good things forever.

Real joy is a fruit of the Spirit, not a fruit of circumstances. God does not take away joy because He IS joy. Put God first in everything. You will know peace and joy that passes understanding.

Jamdoc · Nov 11, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Real joy is a fruit of the Spirit, not a fruit of circumstances. God does not take away joy because He IS joy. Put God first in everything. You will know peace and joy that passes understanding.

Well that verse does not give me peace, or joy.
it gives me pain, and makes me feel more alone than any other verse in the bible.
and let's look at it this way. Is God taking away marriage necessary for more joy?
I think people would have more joy being married while in God's presence than being single in God's presence.
So it is still taking away joy.

Aussie Pete · Nov 11, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Well that verse does not give me peace, or joy.
it gives me pain, and makes me feel more alone than any other verse in the bible.
and let's look at it this way. Is God taking away marriage necessary for more joy?
I think people would have more joy being married while in God's presence than being single in God's presence.
So it is still taking away joy.

You are looking at this from the wrong angle. And joy is independent of circumstances. You mean happiness, which depends on what is happening.

The apostle Paul was single and it did him no harm. He could be in prison, shipwrecked, stoned and left for dead, deserted by the brethren and treated with contempt by fellow Jews. He did not let that bring him down.

You do not know what it is like to be married. You do not know what tomorrow will bring. Just focus on today, thank and praise God today, study His word today, resist the devil (who is lying to you) today. Seek God's kingdom as your priority. Let Him take care of you. I can promise you that He can do a far better job than you can.

Jamdoc · Nov 11, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
You are looking at this from the wrong angle. And joy is independent of circumstances. You mean happiness, which depends on what is happening.

The apostle Paul was single and it did him no harm. He could be in prison, shipwrecked, stoned and left for dead, deserted by the brethren and treated with contempt by fellow Jews. He did not let that bring him down.

You do not know what it is like to be married. You do not know what tomorrow will bring. Just focus on today, thank and praise God today, study His word today, resist the devil (who is lying to you) today. Seek God's kingdom as your priority. Let Him take care of you. I can promise you that He can do a far better job than you can.

Yeah, I don't know what it's like
and that's part of the problem, not knowing, and wondering about what it WOULD be like, forever.
There's a loneliness for me that is unmet by the holy spirit, unmet by friends and family, unmet by anyone. It's a hole, and I can feel the holy spirit try to console me through it, but it is not enough (if anything the Holy spirit holding me back at the edge of the hole is the only thing preventing me from falling or jumping in)
I can be in church, surrounded by believers, filled with the holy spirit, and still feel alone, and 100% conscious of my being alone.
Alone in a crowd of people. The fact that they don't seem to feel alone makes my consciousness of the fact that I'm alone even deeper.
God can be with me and I'm talking to Him, and I feel alone. there is no other way to describe the feeling just.. alone.

Aussie Pete · Nov 11, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Yeah, I don't know what it's like
and that's part of the problem, not knowing, and wondering about what it WOULD be like, forever.
There's a loneliness for me that is unmet by the holy spirit, unmet by friends and family, unmet by anyone. It's a hole, and I can feel the holy spirit try to console me through it, but it is not enough (if anything the Holy spirit holding me back at the edge of the hole is the only thing preventing me from falling or jumping in)
I can be in church, surrounded by believers, filled with the holy spirit, and still feel alone, and 100% conscious of my being alone.
Alone in a crowd of people. The fact that they don't seem to feel alone makes my consciousness of the fact that I'm alone even deeper.
God can be with me and I'm talking to Him, and I feel alone. there is no other way to describe the feeling just.. alone.

Since when are feelings God? You need make God's word your reality. If you quit obsessing about your "needs" then you will find yourself much more content. This life is a blink of an eye compared to eternity. I'm 69 so I'm conscious of how quickly time goes by. Don't waste your life fretting over what you don't have. You could be rejoicing in the goodness of God in saving you in the first place. You could be a witness to others. Don't look at the hole, check out and enjoy the donut!

Jamdoc · Nov 11, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Since when are feelings God? You need make God's word your reality. If you quit obsessing about your "needs" then you will find yourself much more content. This life is a blink of an eye compared to eternity. I'm 69 so I'm conscious of how quickly time goes by. Don't waste your life fretting over what you don't have. You could be rejoicing in the goodness of God in saving you in the first place. You could be a witness to others. Don't look at the hole, check out and enjoy the donut!

The fret is that it's a don't have forever.
Not just a don't have for this life.
and nobody listens to a depressed and lonely witness.
and instead of rejoicing in salvation, all loneliness and depression do is make me wish God had never made me. To be made in such shoddy worksmanship is nothing to rejoice or be thankful for.

Aussie Pete · Nov 12, 2020

Jamdoc said:
The fret is that it's a don't have forever.
Not just a don't have for this life.
and nobody listens to a depressed and lonely witness.
and instead of rejoicing in salvation, all loneliness and depression do is make me wish God had never made me. To be made in such shoddy worksmanship is nothing to rejoice or be thankful for.

You are no different from anyone else. I used to be a Jeremiah also. Will the clay say to the Potter, why have you made me like this? That's what you do. Have you heard of Nick Vujicic? You should take some inspiration from his life story. No arms, no legs, yet he lives life to the fullest as a preacher and evangelist. Nick Vujicic

Jamdoc · Nov 12, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
You are no different from anyone else. I used to be a Jeremiah also. Will the clay say to the Potter, why have you made me like this? That's what you do. Have you heard of Nick Vujicic? You should take some inspiration from his life story. No arms, no legs, yet he lives life to the fullest as a preacher and evangelist. Nick Vujicic

Yeah, and I would ask him why.
and when it comes down to it, while He doesn't owe me an answer, if He actually cared about me, He'd give me an answer. I guess it depends on if He at all cares if I'm happy or not.

Aussie Pete · Nov 12, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Yeah, and I would ask him why.
and when it comes down to it, while He doesn't owe me an answer, if He actually cared about me, He'd give me an answer. I guess it depends on if He at all cares if I'm happy or not.

Your attitude is your biggest enemy, not God. In effect, you are calling Him a liar. That is not how to gain God's favour and blessing. You have no faith so you are not able to please God. You come across as if you just want to vent and not actually get any help. Maybe that's not what you intend, but every time someone offers help, you refuse it.

Jamdoc · Nov 12, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Your attitude is your biggest enemy, not God. In effect, you are calling Him a liar. That is not how to gain God's favour and blessing. You have no faith so you are not able to please God. You come across as if you just want to vent and not actually get any help. Maybe that's not what you intend, but every time someone offers help, you refuse it.

Because the help doesn't actually help.
Liar? no
No scripture I've ever seen says God has any obligation to make you happy, but Christians seem to think He does, and that your personal happiness is something that God wants. As far as i know, our personal happiness seems inconsequential.
I have faith, but only in what God has actually promised. If He has not promised it, I don't have faith in it.
Since you like to use the example of Jeremiah, we don't know if Jeremiah wanted a wife and children, but what if he did? God said he couldn't have them. That'd be an eternally unfulfilled desire.

Aussie Pete · Nov 12, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Because the help doesn't actually help.
Liar? no
No scripture I've ever seen says God has any obligation to make you happy, but Christians seem to think He does, and that your personal happiness is something that God wants. As far as i know, our personal happiness seems inconsequential.
I have faith, but only in what God has actually promised. If He has not promised it, I don't have faith in it.
Since you like to use the example of Jeremiah, we don't know if Jeremiah wanted a wife and children, but what if he did? God said he couldn't have them. That'd be an eternally unfulfilled desire.

Sheesh, you make it hard. Do you know what joy is? It belongs to you, if you are born again. It's part of the fruit of the Spirit. One of the keys to being happy is to be content. Philippians 4:12. Like everyone, Paul had to learn this lesson. You have a tremendous opportunity to learn to be content. I'll let you into another secret. Discontented people are impossible to satisfy. If they get what they want, they'll find fault with it. Contented people are always delighted with anything they receive. It is always a blessing over and above what they had hoped for.

Jamdoc · Nov 12, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Sheesh, you make it hard. Do you know what joy is? It belongs to you, if you are born again. It's part of the fruit of the Spirit. One of the keys to being happy is to be content. Philippians 4:12. Like everyone, Paul had to learn this lesson. You have a tremendous opportunity to learn to be content. I'll let you into another secret. Discontented people are impossible to satisfy. If they get what they want, they'll find fault with it. Contented people are always delighted with anything they receive. It is always a blessing over and above what they had hoped for.

For me the discontent specifically comes from this verse.
and the "help" has just been "well just stop wanting it"
and you already said joy is not the same as happiness.
and when it comes down to it. Adam walked with God. God was with Adam, God talked to Adam, Adam had a close relationship with God, and God still said it wasn't good for him to be alone, made Adam a bunch of pets, it didn't solve the problem. only creating Adam a wife made it good. First example of man, showing that yes, you can be alone even if God is with you.

Aussie Pete · Nov 13, 2020

Jamdoc said:
For me the discontent specifically comes from this verse.
and the "help" has just been "well just stop wanting it"
and you already said joy is not the same as happiness.
and when it comes down to it. Adam walked with God. God was with Adam, God talked to Adam, Adam had a close relationship with God, and God still said it wasn't good for him to be alone, made Adam a bunch of pets, it didn't solve the problem. only creating Adam a wife made it good. First example of man, showing that yes, you can be alone even if God is with you.

Adam did not have a close relationship with God. If he had, he would never have wilfully disobeyed God's sole prohibition. Eve was supposed to be a blessing and a helper for Adam. She was deceived by Satan and Adam chose to follow her disobedience instead of obeying God's extraordinarily simple command. The whole world was plunged in to darkness and sin and death as a result. It seems that Adams' loyalty to Eve outweighed his relationship with God. That would therefore be the first instance of idolatry.

What Adam needed more than anything was Life. Not natural life, spiritual life. There were two trees of note in Eden. Adam could have eaten from the tree of (spiritual) life. History would have been entirely different if he had.

Jamdoc · Nov 13, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Adam did not have a close relationship with God. If he had, he would never have wilfully disobeyed God's sole prohibition. Eve was supposed to be a blessing and a helper for Adam. She was deceived by Satan and Adam chose to follow her disobedience instead of obeying God's extraordinarily simple command. The whole world was plunged in to darkness and sin and death as a result. It seems that Adams' loyalty to Eve outweighed his relationship with God. That would therefore be the first instance of idolatry.

What Adam needed more than anything was Life. Not natural life, spiritual life. There were two trees of note in Eden. Adam could have eaten from the tree of (spiritual) life. History would have been entirely different if he had.

Well, God told them they'd die, which would be a foreign concept to them, God didn't say they'd lose their relationship with God. But that they'd die.
Either way. Adam chose his wife, over eternal life.
That should go to show that marriage isn't something that is easily just written off and not something that "you aren't missing out on anything". I suppose there are bad marriages where it'd not missing out on much, but a good one, where you see people still in love after 50 years of marriage.. that's a blessing from God and pretty much incomparable to any other blessing from God you can get in this life. I don't think anyone is legitimately happier that marriage is not a thing in eternity, at best they trust that God will come up with some relationship that is better. But virtually nobody says "I don't want any sort of intimacy with other people".

Aussie Pete · Nov 13, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Well, God told them they'd die, which would be a foreign concept to them, God didn't say they'd lose their relationship with God. But that they'd die.
Either way. Adam chose his wife, over eternal life.
That should go to show that marriage isn't something that is easily just written off and not something that "you aren't missing out on anything". I suppose there are bad marriages where it'd not missing out on much, but a good one, where you see people still in love after 50 years of marriage.. that's a blessing from God and pretty much incomparable to any other blessing from God you can get in this life. I don't think anyone is legitimately happier that marriage is not a thing in eternity, at best they trust that God will come up with some relationship that is better. But virtually nobody says "I don't want any sort of intimacy with other people".[/QUOTE

The divorce rate demonstrates just how hard marriage can be. Many people look for a need to be met by a spouse that can only be met by God. When that need is not met, many quit the marriage and try again. I can tell you from experience that marriage is not the be all and end all. I've been divorced for 25 years. I have Christian friends and fellowship. I'm content.

You are wrong about Adam and Eve. They lost their relationship with God instantly. They did not die physically. They were separated from God spiritually - spiritual death. That's why they hid from God and tried to cover up. That's the story of humanity ever since.

Jamdoc · Nov 13, 2020

There are just some needs that are also unmet in God. A relationship with God is a relationship with someone who's your superior, not a relationship with an equal. I crave a relationship and intimacy with someone who I don't have to fear and be in reverence of every time I try to talk to them. God doesn't meet that because we must always fear the Lord and speak to Him with reverence. I feel alone because I am alone before God. It is a completely different kind of relationship and interactions.
I can desire Jesus as a God, a King, a Master, a Father, and to some degree a friend, but one that I have to address as a superior to me at all times.
What doesn't work for me is desiring Jesus as a spouse, or a child. Because He's not under my authority to raise, He can't be my child. Because I'm not His equal (and we're both male) He can't be my spouse.
That's emptiness in those places. God does not meet those needs. Are they needs for me to be bare bones able to function and serve the Lord? No. But I qualify them as needs for me to actually be happy.
I have faith that God can meet all the needs for me to be able to serve Him, but as far as fulfill the needs to be happy, I don't think He's promised me that, and at best He'd brainwash me to not have those needs anymore. Not exactly a comforting thought that the means of fulfillment is just taking something else away.

Aussie Pete · Nov 14, 2020

Jamdoc said:
There are just some needs that are also unmet in God. A relationship with God is a relationship with someone who's your superior, not a relationship with an equal. I crave a relationship and intimacy with someone who I don't have to fear and be in reverence of every time I try to talk to them. God doesn't meet that because we must always fear the Lord and speak to Him with reverence. I feel alone because I am alone before God. It is a completely different kind of relationship and interactions.
I can desire Jesus as a God, a King, a Master, a Father, and to some degree a friend, but one that I have to address as a superior to me at all times.
What doesn't work for me is desiring Jesus as a spouse, or a child. Because He's not under my authority to raise, He can't be my child. Because I'm not His equal (and we're both male) He can't be my spouse.
That's emptiness in those places. God does not meet those needs. Are they needs for me to be bare bones able to function and serve the Lord? No. But I qualify them as needs for me to actually be happy.
I have faith that God can meet all the needs for me to be able to serve Him, but as far as fulfill the needs to be happy, I don't think He's promised me that, and at best He'd brainwash me to not have those needs anymore. Not exactly a comforting thought that the means of fulfillment is just taking something else away.

Your concept of God seems to be entirely negative. That's a great shame. Does His Word and promises mean nothing to you? For example, Jeremiah (seemingly your role model) 29:11
"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope."
Psalm 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and a shield; the LORD gives grace and glory; He withholds no good thing from those who walk with integrity.

Jamdoc · Nov 14, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Your concept of God seems to be entirely negative. That's a great shame. Does His Word and promises mean nothing to you? For example, Jeremiah (seemingly your role model) 29:11
"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope."
Psalm 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and a shield; the LORD gives grace and glory; He withholds no good thing from those who walk with integrity.

Proverbs 18:22
and Matthew 22:30.
Marriage is a good thing, and God withholds marriage in eternity.
I wouldn't say Jeremiah is my role model, i think you brought him up first, but it is a good case potentially to look at, where God withheld marriage from Jeremiah, and it seems to not really even touch on whether or not Jeremiah wanted to have his own family or not. If God forbid it on this earth, and Jeremiah wanted a wife and children, all we know in how God "makes good" on that commitment to be a "eunuch for the kingdom of heaven" is Isaiah 56:3-6

3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Sure, in eternity you won't need children to carry on your family name, so the promise of a name that will never die can be better in that sense that you don't have to look to children to continue your name and inheritance.
But as far as for having children just to love them and raise them and teach them and see them grow into godly people, and see them have their own children? A name is no replacement for that.
I don't know if Jeremiah had those desires or not, maybe the Lord simply never gave him those desires to begin with.
But for me, I do have them, and frankly, recommitting my life to Jesus made me more aware of them, not less.
In my late teens and early 20's when i backslid. I didn't think about marriage, and I thought I didn't want children, too much of a hindrance on lifestyle, and marriage? Nah just a desire for sex. Going back to Jesus.. changed a desire for just physical lust and sex, into a desire for love and intimacy with just one woman, because that is what the Lord designed, and it seemed way more beautiful of a concept than I had seen it as before, and made me desire children, even though I know genetically that'd be a very bad idea for me to have.
But this one verse.. shatters everything. Any negative feelings I have towards the Lord, come from this one verse (well and it's parallel in Luke)

Why does Matthew 22:30 cause me SO MUCH PAIN?

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