Anyone want to discuss KJVO ?

Jesus is YHWH said:

more false accusations Gods words has always existed

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This response does not address anything that I actually said.

Welp that was fun. Go back one page for some good post! Have a great day yall.

Bible Highlighter said:

When a scholar told me that there were errors in the Bible, for a brief few seconds, I considered it may be true, and it almost ruined my faith in GOD altogether.

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It depends what you mean by "errors".
Differences in doctrine; no. No Bible has changed the wages of sin, proclaimed another Saviour, said that Jesus wasn't really raised, denied the Holy Spirit etc, etc.
Differences in translation; yes. There are places where the footnotes say "The Hebrew for this is uncertain". If the Hebrew is unclear, no one can translate the word/phrase in question into English and claim that it is a perfect translation of the Hebrew - because the Hebrew itself was unclear.

Bible Highlighter said:

For if I cannot believe some words are trustworthy, then what makes me want to trust the rest of God's Word?

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Well I'm sorry but I can't understand that attitude.
Are you saying that if you read a passage that said, for example, "3,000 men went into battle", and later someone discovered more scrolls/documents and produced a Bible which said "30,000 men went into battle", you'd then say "heavens, so the entire Bible and all the words that God spoke and recorded are completely untrue, because someone wrote '3,000' instead of '30,000' "?

Bible Highlighter said:

The Devil Tries To Place His Name in Modern Translations:

A simple side by side comparison of the KJV vs Modern Translations shows us that the devil tries to place his name in the Modern Versions. Have no idea what I am talking about?

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Yes, I know what you're talking about; I just say that you're wrong.

Bible Highlighter said:

See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it";

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Not always; it might be a literal description; i.e the priests feet touched the river Jordan, the waters dried up, the priests stood firmly on dry ground in the middle of the Jordan and the Israelites walked through, Joshua 3:17. This does not mean that the priests owned the River Jordan.
Saul stood and watched while a crowd stoned Stephen to death, Acts of the Apostles 8:1 - it doesn't mean he owned the ground that he stood on.

Bible Highlighter said:

And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many

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Couldn't care less what he wants; it ain't happening. I belong to Jesus.

Bible Highlighter said:

In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.

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That's nothing to do with doctrine, and as you are starting from the position that the KJV is perfect and can't be challenged, there's no point discussing it.

Bible Highlighter said:

Why is this a problem?

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It isn't.

Bible Highlighter said:

For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I").

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And that changes the Christian Gospel, nature of God and way of salvation - how?

Bible Highlighter said:

In Daniel 3, the Babylonian king says there is one like the "Son of God" in the fiery furnace along with Daniel's three friends. This is Jesus! Yet, in the Modern Translations it says the "son of the gods."

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Nebuchadnezzar said that it looked like "son of the gods".
Nebuchadnezzar was not Jewish, didn't believe in God, and maybe not in angels, and would have had no other way of describing what he saw. The NIV, for example, is reporting Nebuchadnezzar's own words, not making a theological statement about God.

Sorry, but either you don't understand that, or it is just another attempt to try to undermine the NIV.

Bible Highlighter said:

Nebuchadnezzar thought this was an angel of God (singular and not plural).

"Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God." (Daniel 3:28).

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Nebuchadnezzar was a pagan and unable to describe what he had seen.

If you saw a dazzling heavenly being, and you didn't believe in such things; how would you describe it?

Bible Highlighter said:

Jesus says,
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16).

So Jesus is the BRIGHT and MORNING star!

Yet, the individual in Isaiah 14:12 in Modern Translations is called the shining (bright) and morning star or the Day Star, etc.

So the devil is trying to be like the most high here. He is taking a similar sounding title of Jesus in Isaiah 14:12.

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That's always been his trouble; wanting to be like, or equal to God.
That's why he got kicked out of heaven.
Just because the devil may want something, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. Jesus said that the devil will even do miracles to try to deceive God's people - he won't succeed.

Bible Highlighter said:

Note: The word “Wile(s)” is devious or cunning stratagems employed in manipulating or persuading someone to do what one wants; lure; entice.

11 “Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.


“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:” (1 Peter 5:8).

“Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.”
(2 Corinthians 2:11).

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:3).

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I don't know why you're shouting; I don't disagree with any of those Bible verses.

Bible Highlighter said:

And why would I think that the Modern Translations are wrong by comparison?

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You think that everything's wrong compared with the KJV.

I'm not discussing that chart. I've said before; compare ALL translations of Scripture with the Greek/Hebrew to see which is/are the most accurate. But not only do you refuse, you submit a long rant about Hebrew/Greek being dead languages, people worshipping education etc etc.
Like I said, if the KJV agreed with the Hebrew/Greek on EVERY occasion, there would be no doubt at all that the KJV was the most accurate translation from the Hebrew/Greek. I'm sure that you are intelligent enough to understand that logic.
It is the only, and a fool proof, way of showing the accuracy of the KJV. But you won't do that - which strongly suggests that you can't. it strongly suggests that there are passages/verses in the KJV which disagree with the Hebrew/Greek.
This gives you a dilemma, since you have repeatedly said that the KJV is perfect, the only pure word of God and have even seemed to stake your life on it. As you can't think the unthinkable, the only solution is to badmouth the language experts who were apparently "guessing", or badmouth other Christians who apparently believe a language dictionary, over God.
Utter nonsense.

Bible Highlighter said:

No. There can be ONLY ONE Word of GOD.

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There is.
But there are a number of translations because people have sought to put it into language that others will understand, found new documents that shed new light on various passages or produced new versions to reflect the change in language.

The KJV is the word of God.
The NIV, GNB, New English Bible, NASB, RSV etc are the word of God.

The Koran, Bhagavad-Gita, Sikh, Shinto, communist and other writings are not the word of God.

Strong in Him said:

I'm not discussing that chart. I've said before; compare ALL translations of Scripture with the Greek/Hebrew to see which is/are the most accurate. But not only do you refuse, you submit a long rant about Hebrew/Greek being dead languages, people worshipping education etc etc.
Like I said, if the KJV agreed with the Hebrew/Greek on EVERY occasion, there would be no doubt at all that the KJV was the most accurate translation from the Hebrew/Greek. I'm sure that you are intelligent enough to understand that logic.
It is the only, and a fool proof, way of showing the accuracy of the KJV. But you won't do that - which strongly suggests that you can't. it strongly suggests that there are passages/verses in the KJV which disagree with the Hebrew/Greek.
This gives you a dilemma, since you have repeatedly said that the KJV is perfect, the only pure word of God and have even seemed to stake your life on it. As you can't think the unthinkable, the only solution is to badmouth the language experts who were apparently "guessing", or badmouth other Christians who apparently believe a language dictionary, over God.
Utter nonsense.

.

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Yes this is what it boils down to with the KJV only sect. You nailed it right there.

Bible Highlighter said:

If you were to take a step back and put yourself in the shoes of the enemy, doesn't it make more sense that the devil would have more to gain by getting men and woman of GOD to doubt that His Word is pure, and to doubt that His Word would be perserved for all generations as Psalms 12:6-7 says? And guess what? That is exactly what we see happening today. Most Christians believe that there are erros in the Bible and that there is no perfect Bible that we can hold in our hands today.

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I don’t want to presume to plan things like the enemy but I’ll refer back to the first chapter of John’s gospel. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. That Word is eternal.

God spoke the universe into existence. I’m also not presuming to understand the absolute mystery of the Word of God but I do know things were spoken to John (Revelation 10:4) that were never written so I can’t take a sola scriptura perspective on the Word.

a-lily-in-the-valley said:

I don’t want to presume to plan things like the enemy but I’ll refer back to the first chapter of John’s gospel. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. That Word is eternal.

God spoke the universe into existence. I’m also not presuming to understand the absolute mystery of the Word of God but I do know things were spoken to John (Revelation 10:4) that were never written so I can’t take a sola scriptura perspective on the Word.

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The Living Word vs. the Communicated Word:

One must realize that there is a symbiotic relationship between the "Living Word" (Jesus) and the Communicated Word of God (Which today would be Scripture).

Click on the following spoiler button to learn more with Scripture:


In other words, if the Living Word (Jesus) is perfect, we should realize that there is a perfect Word in existence, as well. Meaning, if Jesus lives inside of us today and He does not live in the past alone, then there must be a perfect Communicated Word (Scripture) that we can hold in our hands today, too.

Bible Highlighter said:

The Living Word vs. the Communicated Word:

One must realize that there is a symbiotic relationship between the "Living Word" (Jesus) and the Communicated Word of God (Which today would be Scripture).

Click on the following spoiler button to learn more with Scripture:

Spoiler

The Symbiotic Relationship Between
The Living Word, & the Communicated Word:

1. Christ is good (John 10:11, John 10:14), and the word is good (1 Kings 2:42).
   
   
2. Christ is the truth (John 14:6), and the word is the truth (John 17:17).
   
   
3. Christ is called Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11), and the word is called faithful and true (Revelation 22:6).
   
   
4. Christ is pure (1 John 3:3), and the word is pure (Proverbs 30:5).
   
   
5. Christ is incorruptible (Acts of the Apostles 2:27), and the word is incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23).
   
   
6. Christ abides forever (John 12:34), and the word abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).
   
   
7. Christ’s name: “Jesus” is above all names (Which would include God’s name) (Philippians 2:9-10), and the word is above God’s name (Psalms 138:2).
   
   
8. Christ has flaming eyes of fire (Revelation 19:12), and the Word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).
   
   
9. Christ can burn things like a fire (Matthew 3:12), and the word can burn things like a fire (Luke 24:32).
   
   
10. Christ can be eaten (John 6:57), and the word can be eaten (Jeremiah 15:16).
    
    
11. Christ is like the discovery of treasure (Matthew 13:44-46, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:7-10), and the word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).
    
    
12. Christ is the light (John 8:12), and the word is light (Psalms 119:105).
    
    
13. Christ is life (John 14:6, 1 John 5:12), and the word is life (John 6:63).
    
    
14. Christ is the living bread (John 6:51), and the word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).
    
    
15. Christ is eternal life (Romans 6:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 John 5:20) and the word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).
    
    
16. Christ quickens (makes alive) (John 5:21), and the word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).
    
    
17. It is by Christ which makes the gospel possible (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it is by the word which makes the gospel possible (1 Peter 1:25).
    
    
18. Christ is near to men (Acts of the Apostles 17:27) (Revelation 3:20) (Psalms 145:18), and the word is near to men (Romans 10:8).
    
    
19. Christ discerns the heart (Matthew 9:4, Luke 9:47), and the word discerns the heart (Hebrews 4:12).
    
    
20. Christ can get men through a storm (Mark 4:35-41), and the word can get men through a storm (Matthew 7:24-25).
    
    
21. Christ sanctifies (John 17:19), and the word sanctifies (John 17:17).
    
    
22. A person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8).
    
    
23. Christ will judge men (John 5:22), and the word will judge men (John 12:48).
    
    
24. Christ’s bones were never broken (John 19:36 cf. Psalms 34:20), and the word is never broken (John 10:35).
    
    
25. Believers are told to seek after Christ (Matthew 28:5, Mark 16:6), and believers are told to seek after the word (Isaiah 34:16).
    
    
26. Christ is our hope (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Colossians 1:27, 1 Timothy 1:1), and the word is our hope (Psalms 130:5).
    
    
27. Believers are to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), and believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).
    
    
28. Christ is to be heard and obeyed (Matthew 7:24), and the word is to be heard and obeyed (James 1:22).
    
    
29. The love of God is within Christ (Romans 8:39), and keeping the word places the love of God within us (1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).
    
    
30. Christ is the way to the living waters, which is the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39), and the washing of the water of the word (Ephesians 5:25-27) (which is obedience to God) is the way to having the Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
    
    
31. Christ is like the foundation that is a part of a house (1 Corinthians 3:9, 1 Corinthians 3:11), and He is like a rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), and the obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (Matthew 7:24).
    
    
32. Believers are to follow after the steps of Christ (1 Peter 2:21), and believers are to order their steps in the word (Psalms 119:133).
    
    
33. Christ breathed the Spirit upon his faithful chosen (John 20:22), and the word is “inspired by God” (i.e. God breathed) for the benefit of his faithful chosen (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
    
    
34. Christ is the way to having the fruits of righteousness (Philippians 1:11), and the word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
    
    
35. Christ can abide in us (John 15:4-7) (Ephesians 3:17) (Philippians 4:13), and the word can abide in us (John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).
    
    
36. Christ dwells in our hearts (Ephesians 3:17), and the word dwells in our hearts (Colossians 3:16).
    
    
37. Believers can be hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3), and the word can be hidden in believers (Psalms 119:11).
    
    
38. Christ is always with us (Matthew 28:20), and the word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).
    
    
39. Christ can make our joy full (John 15:11), and the word can make our joy full (1 John 1:4).
    
    
40. Believers’ hearts rejoice with Christ (John 16:22), and believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (Jeremiah 15:16).

The communicated word of God that we have today is the Bible.

“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11).​

Jesus (the Living Word) was sent by the commandment (mouth) of the Father. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do (John 12:49) (John 14:31).

What is interesting is that the Living Word accomplished that which the Father commanded Him to do and to prosper (accomplish) that thing He sent to do (i.e. Jesus suffered on the cross, and said, “It is finished” and died for man’s sins). Jesus was risen three days later, and ascended to the Father. God’s Word (the living Word) did not return void by whom the Father sent.

The communicated Word can also be sent out and not return void, as well. For many have believed and have stayed faithful to what God’s Word says.

In the creation: The Word made flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14) (i.e. Christ) created everything. In the beginning God spoke words to bring forth the creation in six days (Genesis 1:1-31).

So in the beginning was the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

In the end of this sinful world: Christ will return (Revelation 19:11-21) and a sharp sword will proceed from His mouth. This sword could be the “sword of the Spirit,” (Which is the Word of God) or it could be symbolic of such (Ephesians 6:17).

So in the end there will be the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

For at Christ’s return: His name is called The “Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13) (Living Word).

On His thigh, and vesture is a name written (words) “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Communicated Word).

Jesus was beaten to a pulp and crucified on a tree.

The Word we have today (the Bible) is a result of pulp made from a tree.

Jesus was the Word made flesh (covered in skin).

The Word we have today (the Bible) is popular to be available covered in skin (leather).

Words on the page hang on this tree (paper) (the Bible),
just like the Living Word hung on a tree (the cross).

In other words, if the Living Word (Jesus) is perfect, we should realize that there is a perfect Word in existence, as well. Meaning, if Jesus lives inside of us today and He does not live in the past alone, then there must be a perfect Communicated Word (Scripture) that we can hold in our hands today, too.

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But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(John 14:26, KJV)

I believe the Holy Spirit can communicate God’s Word even if a person reads the ESV or NIV in his or her hands. It’s a transformation of the heart that produces the fear of God which leads to wisdom.

Because the Holy Spirit already knows what Jesus said, even the things that were never transcribed, even before we read what was, even before we fully understand.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(1 Corinthians 13:9-10, KJV)

Strong in Him said:

It depends what you mean by "errors".
Differences in doctrine; no. No Bible has changed the wages of sin, proclaimed another Saviour, said that Jesus wasn't really raised, denied the Holy Spirit etc, etc.
Differences in translation; yes. There are places where the footnotes say "The Hebrew for this is uncertain". If the Hebrew is unclear, no one can translate the word/phrase in question into English and claim that it is a perfect translation of the Hebrew - because the Hebrew itself was unclear.

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The problem is that major doctrine has been attacked, and you turn a blind eye in not seeing that they are major doctrines.

A List of Doctrines Changed in God's Word:
(Between the KJV and Modern Translations):

#1. Doctrine of The Trinity is Effected; For the Only Verse (1 John 5:7) That Point Blank Tells Us About the Trinity is Removed:
If I was on an island, and I had no clue about Christianity, the odds of my understanding the Trinity is better if I had a King James bible vs. a Modern Translation bible that removes this valuable truth on knowing the Trinity. So this proves that Modern Translations are less helpful for me to understand the Trinity by using the Bible alone.

#2. The Doctrine of Fasting So As To Cast Out Persistent Demons is Removed:
Matthew 17:21 that tells us that casting out persistent or really strong devils is by prayer and fasting. Yet, Matthew 17:21 is oddly removed in Modern Translations. Mark 9:29 mentions that you can pray to remove these kinds of devils, but it does not mention fasting. So the key doctrine of fasting so as to cast out really strong demons is gone. So the enemy wins if a person only adheres to the Modern Translations and they have a hate on for the KJV. For if you ever encountered strong demonic activity like this before, you know that fasting does actually help greatly, and not just prayer alone.

#3. The Full Version of the Doctrine on Having "No Condemnation" According to Romans 8:1 is Removed:
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Modern Translations leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The KJV says, as a part of having no Condemnation: We have to (a) Be in Christ Jesus, AND: (b) Walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants Christians today to justify sin instead of battling against it. So the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version on His holy Word to promote the idea that they do not need to worry about sin destroying their soul.

#4. The Doctrine of Psalms 12:7 that the Lord will Preserve His Words Forever is Altered.
Psalms 12:6 says the words of the Lord are pure words, and in Psalms 12:7, the Psalmist says that the Lord will preserve them forever. It's kind of funny or odd that those who are against a perfect Bible existing in our world language today (i.e. the KJV) just so happen to favor Modern translations that remove and alter this very verse. Some do not even believe there is a perfect Bible out there. So who decides what words in the Bible are the true words of God? Do they decide? Now, some may say the perfect Word exists in the original languages. But Habakkuk 2:2 says write the words plainly so that he that reads it may run. So it's not going to be some gobbledygook language that nobody can understand (like biblical Hebrew, and biblical Greek). In fact, all we have today are copies of the original languages. This is not the case with the KJV. Meaning, His Word is preserved forever. His Word moved with the times. For God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. His Word does not exist perfectly in some dead language, but His Word exists in the English (Which is the world language of today).

#5. In Genesis 3:16, the ESV (Which is one of the most popular Modern Translations) Doctrinally Changes the Nature of the Truth in the KJV by Saying that Eve's (the wife's)Desire is Contrary To Her Husband.



#6. 2 Corinthians 3:12, and Habakkuk 2:2 is Altered by Modern Translations To Eliminate That God Uses Plainness of Speech.

This is important to understand because Modern Translation folk tend to prefer to look to the original languages to understand God's Word as their one and only go to source. This is not the plainness of speech that God employs. While God can speak in metaphor, or parables, He also speaks in plainness of speech, too. This has to be applicable to our life today in some way. Surely it is not a coincidence that these two key verses are eliminated in their favored Modern Translations (that influences their way of thinking).

#7. Philippians 2:7 Changes Doctrine by Removing an Aspect of the Deity of Christ During His Earthly Ministry.
Philippians 2:6-7 says correctly,

6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:” (Philippians 2:6-7).
King James correctly says that Christ made himself of no reputation.


Various different Modern Translations say that He “emptied himself,” and the NLT says that, “he gave up his divine privileges;” (Philippians 2:7). This is false and it is a denial of the deity of Christ. God cannot cease to become God. God cannot cut out an aspect of who He is at His core in having divine power and yet still be God. That would be a contradiction. The Modern Translations are teaching a gnostic heresy in denying that Jesus has power as God. Granted, Jesus had grown in wisdom (See: Luke 2:52), but I believe this was not an elimination of His divine powers as God, but it was a suppression of them (See: John 17:5, Habakkuk 2:14). For Jesus needed to be a like figure or type of Adam; For Adam also was limited in knowledge when He was in a right relationship with God before the Fall (See: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47). However, Jesus clearly had power as God as a man before the cross. For...

Jesus had power as God:
(during his earthly ministry):

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).
So Modern Translations are wrong. In fact, many Christians today think Jesus gave up His divine powers; This is because of the wrong teaching (or wrong doctrine) behind Modern Translations.
Anyways, these are just a few of the red flags in Modern Translations.
But there are so many red flags in Modern Translations, it would make one think they were in a Russian airport.

Strong in Him said:

Well I'm sorry but I can't understand that attitude.
Are you saying that if you read a passage that said, for example, "3,000 men went into battle", and later someone discovered more scrolls/documents and produced a Bible which said "30,000 men went into battle", you'd then say "heavens, so the entire Bible and all the words that God spoke and recorded are completely untrue, because someone wrote '3,000' instead of '30,000' "?

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Again, you fail to understand the concept or idea that if one word or one group of words is in error in the Bible, then the rest of the Bible cannot be trusted. It can no longer be called the Holy Bible (implying that is divine and perfect). It would then be called the holey Bible (with it being full of holes and or errors). GOD is perfect and He does not make mistakes. His Word would be a reflection of His good and Holy and perfect character. God holds the universe together with pin point precision and you want me to believe He does not have a perfect Word in existence today that we can just plainly read and understand. You want me to go to some gobbledygook language that nobody knows anymore to understand His Word. But I am not interested in joining any tower of Babel parties. God is not the author of confusion. God was perfectly capable of translating the languages at Pentecost for men to understand each other, and we know God does not change.

Bible Highlighter said:

The Devil Tries To Place His Name in Modern Translations:

A simple side by side comparison of the KJV vs Modern Translations shows us that the devil tries to place his name in the Modern Versions. Have no idea what I am talking about?

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Strong in Him said:

Yes, I know what you're talking about; I just say that you're wrong.

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If we were talking about just one instance that appeared to have the devil's name in the Modern Translations, I would say that maybe you could be right, but the fact that there are numerous examples of this should send the fire alarms going off at home on the inside of you. But folks see what they want to see. I would say that if there is consistent pattern evidence showing this corruption of God's Holy Word (and there is), then one cannot ignore them all (Unless they are intentionally burying their head in the sand). All I can do is encourage you to consider the opposing side and look at the evidence again. To me, it is frightingly disturbing that folks just ignore this kind of thing.

a-lily-in-the-valley said:

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(John 14:26, KJV)

I believe the Holy Spirit can communicate God’s Word even if a person reads the ESV or NIV in his or her hands. It’s a transformation of the heart that produces the fear of God which leads to wisdom.

Because the Holy Spirit already knows what Jesus said, even the things that were never transcribed, even before we read what was, even before we fully understand.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(1 Corinthians 13:9-10, KJV)

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But 2 Timothy 2:15, Psalms 12:6-7 and many other verses do not say the same thing in the KJB vs. the Modern Translations. So the Spirit cannot communicate to a person what is not written in their Bible. 1 John 5:7 is missing in most Modern Translations. If you were trapped on an island and you knew nothing of the Trinity, your chances are better in understanding the Trinity is better if you have 1 John 5:7 in your Bible. There are tons of verses like this. So no. I don't agree. I mean, why even have a Bible if God is the One who can just talk to you directly?

Bible Highlighter said:

But 2 Timothy 2:15, Psalms 12:6-7 and many other verses do not say the same thing in the KJB vs. the Modern Translations. So the Spirit cannot communicate to a person what is not written in their Bible. 1 John 5:7 is missing in most Modern Translations. If you were trapped on an island and you knew nothing of the Trinity, your chances are better in understanding the Trinity is better if you have 1 John 5:7 in your Bible. There are tons of verses like this. So no. I don't agree. I mean, why even have a Bible if God is the One who can just talk to you directly?

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To answer your question as to why have a Bible, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:16-17, KJV)

See that scriptures are profitable, not that they are equal to God?

The scriptures record the history of Israel, the words God spoke to the prophets, the poetry and proverbs of kings, the lamentations of the righteous, the teachings and the life of Christ Jesus as he walked the earth and the acts and letters of the Apostles. These are all good and profitable and righteous and valid.

But you say “the Spirit can not communicate to a person what is not written in their Bible” which ignores that every single book of the Prophets is the record of the Spirit communicating to a person what was not written before they wrote it. It ignores that the letters written by the Apostles were inspired to be written, not inspired only as a commentary of what had already been written. Every single verse in scripture was communicated before it was written.

It’s not about whether a hypothetical person on an island could independently perfectly understand the Trinity. History shows that even people who were not on an island weren’t able to do this.

You’ve called the language in which God spoke to Moses and the language in which Jesus taught his disciples and the language which the Apostles wrote to the early churches all “gobbledygook” so it comes across like this is less about ensuring understanding the Word of God than it is about ensuring the primacy of the King James translation.

Bible Highlighter said:

Try having a Bible study and ask everyone to bring a different Modern Translation for each person. Then when you have the Bible study, ask everyone to read the same passages together out loud together. What will you hear? Confusion;

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Sorry, but that's a ridiculous scenario, designed only to make your point.
a) that never happens. We have Bible studies and a couple of people may have different translations; this is good, we get another perspective and can discuss any differences in translation.
b) If there is a long passage people will take it in turns to read a few verses each. No leader ever says "we're all going to read Psalm 23 together in whatever translation you have got - go".
c) If you ask people to all read the same passage at the same time you can get chaos, even in the same translation. People have different voices and read at different speeds.

Bible Highlighter said:

And God is not the author of confusion.

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Don't tell half a dozen people to all read at the same time from their different Bibles, and you won't be the author of confusion either.

Bible Highlighter said:

God does not have one Bible saying something different in Psalms 12:6-7 vs. another one.

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I don't know why you are focussing on Psalms 12:6-7 in particular
But there are some differences in language here, as anywhere else. No Bible changes the meaning of this verse.

Bible Highlighter said:

God does not remove the teaching of the Trinity in 1 John 5:7 in most Bibles

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1 John 5:7 is not the only verse in the Bible that teaches the Trinity.
If it doesn't appear in some Bibles, that might be because it isn't in the Greek. If you are trying to say that some Bible editors said to themselves, "let's remove the Trinity and confuse everyone"; a) as I said, there are plenty of other places that speak of the Trinity and b) you'd need to provide evidence of that.

Bible Highlighter said:

God is perfect in everything He does.

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Never said that he wasn't. And guess what? I learned that from the NIV.

Bible Highlighter said:

Again, you fail to understand the concept or idea that if one word or one group of words is in error in the Bible, then the rest of the Bible cannot be trusted.

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No, I don't fail to understand it.
I just believe that the Bible can ne true and inerrant without having to agree with other translations in every word and punctuation mark.
You clearly don't see it that way. For you, for the Bible to be true, every word that was written in 1611 HAS to be the best and truest translation possible - even if, 400 years later, different discoveries have been made and language has changed massively.
As I've said before, if you told a group of teenagers in 1611 that they were wicked, they would think that you were saying that they were going to hell. Tell a group of teenagers today that they are wicked, and they'll thank you for the compliment.

Whether you want to admit to it or not, it is obvious that the word "wicked" has a different meaning now - also the words sick, cool, hot, fit - and maybe a host of others.
You may still live in 1611, no one else does.

Bible Highlighter said:

The problem is that major doctrine has been attacked, and you turn a blind eye in not seeing that they are major doctrines.

A List of Doctrines Changed in God's Word:
(Between the KJV and Modern Translations):

#1. Doctrine of The Trinity is Effected; For the Only Verse (1 John 5:7) That Point Blank Tells Us About the Trinity is Removed:
If I was on an island, and I had no clue about Christianity, the odds of my understanding the Trinity is better if I had a King James bible vs. a Modern Translation bible that removes this valuable truth on knowing the Trinity. So this proves that Modern Translations are less helpful for me to understand the Trinity by using the Bible alone.

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I've just answered this in another post, so I'm not repeating it.
But basically, no one is removing the doctrine of the Trinity. If you think the KJV is the only Bible that teaches the Trinity; you're wrong. I believe it, and I don't read the KJV.

I'll answer the others tomorrow, if I feel so inclined.
Fact is, I've said all this before and you don't listen because your starting point is that the KJV is perfect. There's no discussion to be had; we accept that "fact", or you're not interested.
Even if people post verses from the KJV where the translation is ludicrous, you still won't believe it; you just go to great lengths to explain it away.

Strong in Him said:

I've just answered this in another post, so I'm not repeating it.
But basically, no one is removing the doctrine of the Trinity. If you think the KJV is the only Bible that teaches the Trinity; you're wrong. I believe it, and I don't read the KJV.

I'll answer the others tomorrow, if I feel so inclined.
Fact is, I've said all this before and you don't listen because your starting point is that the KJV is perfect. There's no discussion to be had; we accept that "fact", or you're not interested.
Even if people post verses from the KJV where the translation is ludicrous, you still won't believe it; you just go to great lengths to explain it away.

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Yes 1 John 5:7 being a perfect example of a bad translation using a corrupted manuscript. This alone shows the KJV is imperfect.

And I would love more than anything to have the manuscript evidence to support the KJV but there is none. And being that we are Trinitarians is would end all discussions regarding the Trinity and its validity being spelled out plainly in the text.

a-lily-in-the-valley said:

To answer your question as to why have a Bible, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:16-17, KJV)

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I am glad, but you made it sound like we didn't need a Bible before.

You said:

See that scriptures are profitable, not that they are equal to God?

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I don't know what you mean by the saying of making the Scriptures equal to God. Care to elaborate using a real world example?

The Scriptures are the express thoughts of God. God magnifies His Word above His name (Psalms 138:2). If we are worshiping God and it is not in line with what His Word says, then we are not for God. Nowhere does God say it is bad if we seek to follow His Word, and make it a part of our life. In fact, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). The Scriptures tell us how to worship God. So I am not really following what your getting at here.

You said:

The scriptures record the history of Israel, the words God spoke to the prophets, the poetry and proverbs of kings, the lamentations of the righteous, the teachings and the life of Christ Jesus as he walked the earth and the acts and letters of the Apostles. These are all good and profitable and righteous and valid.

But you say “the Spirit can not communicate to a person what is not written in their Bible” which ignores that every single book of the Prophets is the record of the Spirit communicating to a person what was not written before they wrote it. It ignores that the letters written by the Apostles were inspired to be written, not inspired only as a commentary of what had already been written. Every single verse in scripture was communicated before it was written.

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Here is graphic I made a while back that should help to explain things according to what we see in Scripture.

You said:

It’s not about whether a hypothetical person on an island could independently perfectly understand the Trinity.

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The Canaanite woman made an extended parable to Jesus' parable and He did not rebuke her and or brush her off by mentioning the irrelevance of hypothetical scenarios.

You said:

History shows that even people who were not on an island weren’t able to do this.

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So you are saying that no person on the planet was ever able to figure out the Trinity by reading the Word of God (the Bible) without the aid of other Christians? That seems kind of far-fetched to me. History has even shown this? If so, where is the proof?

You said:

You’ve called the language in which God spoke to Moses and the language in which Jesus taught his disciples and the language which the Apostles wrote to the early churches all “gobbledygook” so it comes across like this is less about ensuring understanding the Word of God than it is about ensuring the primacy of the King James translation.

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What do you think it sounded like when God created a bunch of different languages at the tower of Babel? It would have sounded like gobbledygook or confusion. The languages you refer to are not sacred languages by any means. If you believe they are, what Bible verse or passage tells you that? My impression of God in Scripture is that He was perfectly able to translate perfectly so that others were able to hear understand each other (i.e. See Pentecost in Acts chapter 2).

Jesus is YHWH said:

Yes 1 John 5:7 being a perfect example of a bad translation using a corrupted manuscript. This alone shows the KJV is imperfect.

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Then you just eliminated the one and only clear verse that teaches the Trinity in the Bible.