280 Weeks are Determined

BABerean2 said:

He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.

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The 7th trumpet signals the third woe. What is the third woe?

The woe of the 5th trumpet is the release of the flesh tormenting locust.

The woe of the 6th trumpet is the 200,000,000 horsemen army which kills a third of mankind.

What is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation?

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Douggg said:

The 7th trumpet signals the third woe.

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What does the text of Revelation 11:15-18 actually say?

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Timtofly said:

Those in Christ are not dead, but in Paradise.

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They are physically dead, but their souls are in Paradise. Their bodies have not been resurrected and changed yet.

1 Thess 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Do you think those in sheol get the same reward and judgment as those in Christ? Why would they all stand before God at the same time? Putting all humanity that ever lived at the same judgment, denies the Cross where the Lamb, God Himself judged sin and took the sting out of death. Those in Christ will never stand in judgment with those still in sin and death.

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Believers will be rewarded and unbelievers will be condemned to the lake of fire on judgment day. We will all stand before the throne to give an account of ourselves.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Timtofly said:

I am curious though, why did no one in the early church mention 144k believers?

Jesus has 12 disciples and only God knows if each was from a different tribe. James and John were brothers. Andrew and Peter were brothers so that messes with your tribal theory in the 1st century.

Why would the Lamb now in the 21st century not have 1200 from each tribe as His disciples? Revelation 14:1-5

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I don’t think the 12 disciples are the 144,000. In John 13:36 Jesus said whither I go thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. In Revelation 14:4 the 144,000 follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.

I see the saints that come out of the graves after his resurrection in Matthew 27:52-53 as the 144,000. The account of what happens to these saints after they are resurrected and see by many in the holy city isn’t recorded in Matthew.

I think Revelation 14:1-5 tells us where they went. The 144,000 would have met up with the Lamb (resurrected Jesus) on mount Sion and followed him to heaven, which was whithersoever he goeth.

In Acts 1:9 Jesus is seen being taken up and received into a cloud out of their sight. There is no indication at all of there being 144,000 with him here. However in John 20:17 Mary is told not to touch Jesus because he had not yet ascended to the Father. In John 20:27 Thomas is able to touch Jesus by thrusting his hand into his side. So Jesus would’ve ascended (with the 144,000) and descended sometime between these 2 verses.

Timtofly said:

Your point is who can be a true Jew, no? Now you want to know who was a true Jew in the 1st century or now in the 21st century?

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Romans 2:28-29 states that a Jew is not one outwardly but is one inwardly. I think this statement was true when it was written and is true today. So if all the Jews are to be gathered back to the land of Israel from the nations, then it matters how we define who will be a Jew if this is going to happen in the future.

If Jews in the future are going to be ones outwardly then some evidence of this change should be found in the scriptures. I don’t see any support for this idea.

If Jews in the future will continue to be Jews inwardly then all Christians are going to wind up in the land of Israel. Again I don’t see any convincing support for this to happen literally. We are instructed to go out into all the world to preach the gospel but I don’t find any instruction in the New Testament to return to Israel once were done preaching.

So I draw the conclusion that the Jews returning to the land of Israel is a spiritual or figurative event.

Spiritual Jew said:

They are physically dead, but their souls are in Paradise. Their bodies have not been resurrected and changed yet.

1 Thess 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

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So Jesus brings his body, but no one else brings their permanent body? Does the body itself travel from Paradise and change separate from the soul? Why did Paul go to all the trouble of pointing out an incorruptible body and yet no incorruptible body even exist?

Really, the dead in Christ return as souls, their incorruptible body somehow in a separate group with Jesus? They had to rise first. They were with Christ when He came. Are you saying the permanent (incorruptible) body is in the ground and not in Paradise? 2 Corinthians 5:1-3

"We know that when the tent which houses us here on earth is torn down, we have a permanent building from God, a building not made by human hands, to house us in heaven.
2 For in this tent, our earthly body, we groan with desire to have around us the home from heaven that will be ours.
3 With this around us we will not be found naked."

You are correct, rising daily to that body in Paradise. If the incorruptible body is in heaven, when does God place it in the ground to meet the souls returning with Christ from Paradise?

Spiritual Jew said:

Believers will be rewarded and unbelievers will be condemned to the lake of fire on judgment day. We will all stand before the throne to give an account of ourselves.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

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The judgment seat of Christ is the Great White Throne of God? Are you not a Trinitarian?

What does Revelation 6:15-17 promise?

15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”

The face of the one sitting on the throne with the Lamb. The judgment seat of Christ, yes. When? As the Lamb come to collect the church, or as the face of the one sitting on the throne? Why is this a clear event even before the 7th seal is opened? I know you want the GWT to be 1 second after this event, I do as well, but then reality sinks in. We have to get through the Trumpets, Thunders, and 42 months of Satan, etc. Nothing in the first 4 seals lign up with Trumpets, Thunders, and 42 months of sheol on earth. The sheep have to be separated from the goats in the presence of the face of the one sitting on the throne. The pit has to be opened. Satan has to be cast out of heaven. None of this happened during the 3.5 days after the Cross, or the 40 days until the ascension and the proclamation of the Great Commission. Do you think I would not be posting verses to prove these facts, if it were so? Did the 1st century church know there was another 1990 years? Why did they never tell us? History happened and cannot be undone. But many things have to happen between the 6th seal and the battle of Armageddon. It has not happened yet, nor will happen in a split second. That is only wishful theology. Pre-trib are accused of escapism. Amil have denied reality and embraced escapism since the 1st century.

grafted branch said:

I don’t think the 12 disciples are the 144,000. In John 13:36 Jesus said whither I go thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. In Revelation 14:4 the 144,000 follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.

I see the saints that come out of the graves after his resurrection in Matthew 27:52-53 as the 144,000. The account of what happens to these saints after they are resurrected and see by many in the holy city isn’t recorded in Matthew.

I think Revelation 14:1-5 tells us where they went. The 144,000 would have met up with the Lamb (resurrected Jesus) on mount Sion and followed him to heaven, which was whithersoever he goeth.

In Acts 1:9 Jesus is seen being taken up and received into a cloud out of their sight. There is no indication at all of there being 144,000 with him here. However in John 20:17 Mary is told not to touch Jesus because he had not yet ascended to the Father. In John 20:27 Thomas is able to touch Jesus by thrusting his hand into his side. So Jesus would’ve ascended (with the 144,000) and descended sometime between these 2 verses.


Romans 2:28-29 states that a Jew is not one outwardly but is one inwardly. I think this statement was true when it was written and is true today. So if all the Jews are to be gathered back to the land of Israel from the nations, then it matters how we define who will be a Jew if this is going to happen in the future.

If Jews in the future are going to be ones outwardly then some evidence of this change should be found in the scriptures. I don’t see any support for this idea.

If Jews in the future will continue to be Jews inwardly then all Christians are going to wind up in the land of Israel. Again I don’t see any convincing support for this to happen literally. We are instructed to go out into all the world to preach the gospel but I don’t find any instruction in the New Testament to return to Israel once were done preaching.

So I draw the conclusion that the Jews returning to the land of Israel is a spiritual or figurative event.

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So only 144k humans from Abel to John the Baptist are the completed church of the OT? These people were in Abraham's bosom.

Why were people from the Garden of Eden, Noah and his family, Abraham and all the prophets sealed by God in the OT and taken out of Abraham's bosom in order to escape the 7 Trumpets in Revelation?

The nation of Israel in 1948 is spiritual and figurative? Was it also not physical or just written in textbooks and physical Israel in the news today does not exist as a physical phenomenon? I have never visited, just have seen pictures. I have no proof to counter your belief.

Timtofly said:

So only 144k humans from Abel to John the Baptist are the completed church of the OT? These people were in Abraham's bosom.

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Matthew 27:52 doesn’t say all, it says many of the bodies of the saints which slept arose. The 144,000 could be a literal number of people but I think the number 144 has significant spiritual meaning so I wouldn’t be dogmatic about whether it’s meant literally or spiritually.

Timtofly said:

The nation of Israel in 1948 is spiritual and figurative? Was it also not physical or just written in textbooks and physical Israel in the news today does not exist as a physical phenomenon? I have never visited, just have seen pictures. I have no proof to counter your belief.

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I wasn’t referring to the current nation of Israel as being figurative. I think there is a literal nation currently in existence that is called Israel, and there are people living in this country that identify as Jews. What I was referring to is what the Bible says about Jews returning to Israel should be viewed in a figurative or spiritual sense. IMO Israel becoming a nation in 1948 has no scriptural significance.

I don’t want to trail off on this topic so start another thread if you think some scriptures were fulfilled in 1948.

Douggg said:

It is one of the series of parables in Matthew 25, regarding how we should live and treat others.

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And this is your only takeaway from Matthew 25:31-46? Do you not see it as a portrayal of the day of judgment that other scripture speaks about? Who do you believe the sheep represent and who you believe the goats represent?

Timtofly said:

So Jesus brings his body, but no one else brings their permanent body?

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Their bodies have to be resurrected first. Just read 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Paul explained it there. It happens at the last trumpet when Christ returns.

The judgment seat of Christ is the Great White Throne of God? Are you not a Trinitarian?

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Yes, it is. And of course I am. I believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Have you never read this verse:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.

Spiritual Jew said:

And this is your only takeaway from Matthew 25:31-46? Do you not see it as a portrayal of the day of judgment that other scripture speaks about? Who do you believe the sheep represent and who you believe the goats represent?

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The goats are the leadership who set the policies and direction of the various nations that dealt in violence and evil. Like Ayatollah Khomeini, Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao, and the like. The sheep are the leadership that stood up for peace, righteousness, fairness in their policies and direction of the various nations.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Douggg said:

The goats are the leadership who set the policies and direction of the various nations that dealt in violence and evil. Like Ayatollah Khomeini, Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao, and the like. The sheep are the leadership that stood up for peace, righteousness, fairness in their policies and direction of the various nations.

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1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


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Douggg said:

The goats are the leadership who set the policies and direction of the various nations that dealt in violence and evil. Like Ayatollah Khomeini, Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao, and the like. The sheep are the leadership that stood up for peace, righteousness, fairness in their policies and direction of the various nations.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

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Wow. That's an interesting interpretation of Matthew 25:31-46. Not one I've ever seen before. But, it does look like you are equating it with the judgment of Revelation 20 and I agree with that. Yet the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 will occur when Jesus comes with His angels (same time as Matthew 24:29-31). So, can you see that the second coming of Jesus is after the thousand years rather than before?

Spiritual Jew said:

Wow. That's an interesting interpretation of Matthew 25:31-46. Not one I've ever seen before. But, it does look like you are equating it with the judgment of Revelation 20 and I agree with that. Yet the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 will occur when Jesus comes with His angels (same time as Matthew 24:29-31). So, can you see that the second coming of Jesus is after the thousand years rather than before?

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No. Because when Jesus returns, he will rule the nations with a rod of iron for a thousand years, and there are not going to be any dictators the likes of Adoph Hilter, Ayatollah Knomeni, Joseph Stalin , Mao, and the like during that time.

At the end of the thousand years, there will be the last rebellion, Satan led deception of the nations during that short time, and there will be some leadership among those nations, including the former Gog-Magog nations - of goats, that will be quickly dwelt with by God destroying those armies when they try to attack Israel .

Followed by the Great White Throne Judgement, which all of the dead including the prior goats like Adolph Hitler, etc, will be raised, and all of the living on the earth, who did not take part in the rapture/resurrection before the millennium, and the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints in Revelation 20:4-6 at the beginning of the millennium, will appear before Jesus, at the Great White Throne judgment. There the goats will be cast into the lake of fire.
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The Second Coming of Jesus is at the end of the 70th week of Daniel 9. That event is in Revelation 19.
Then the 1000 years.

grafted branch said:

Matthew 27:52 doesn’t say all, it says many of the bodies of the saints which slept arose. The 144,000 could be a literal number of people but I think the number 144 has significant spiritual meaning so I wouldn’t be dogmatic about whether it’s meant literally or spiritually.

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Many people keep telling me that, but not all people.

It mentions Jerusalem, and not all buried in Jerusalem were in Abraham's bosom. So Abraham was left behind? Abraham was not buried in Jerusalem. Can any one explain to me why God would do a halfway job, and leave part of the church in sheol? At the Second Coming is God going to leave part of the church on the earth? Where is part way found in Scripture?

grafted branch said:

I wasn’t referring to the current nation of Israel as being figurative. I think there is a literal nation currently in existence that is called Israel, and there are people living in this country that identify as Jews. What I was referring to is what the Bible says about Jews returning to Israel should be viewed in a figurative or spiritual sense. IMO Israel becoming a nation in 1948 has no scriptural significance.

I don’t want to trail off on this topic so start another thread if you think some scriptures were fulfilled in 1948.

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My point is God is only going to deal with those Israelites who are actually alive at the Second Coming. Not Israelites in Paradise, they are now the church. Not Israelites in sheol, they are dead in their sin. Only those Israelites alive, and since God is coming to Jerusalem, those currently living in Israel. How far people will actually be from Jerusalem after the Second Coming, is a totally different topic, probably belonging in the science section of the forum.

Spiritual Jew said:

Their bodies have to be resurrected first. Just read 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Paul explained it there. It happens at the last trumpet when Christ returns.

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I posted 2 Corinthians 5 where Paul says the incorruptible body is in Paradise waiting for us.

You avoided telling me how the permanent body in Paradise gets placed in the ground to be resurrected.

Rising first is not the issue. Paul says absent from the body, present with the Lord. Present with the Lord and in one's permanent body.

Spiritual Jew said:

Yes, it is. And of course I am. I believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Have you never read this verse:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.

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And the one on the throne with the Lamb is also coming in judgement.

Taking a verse out of context, one's point is not made. God did not judge those in Christ because the judgment on the Cross was God judging Himself. Setting forth the Trinity to those in authority was the only way any human would come to the knowledge of the Trinity. In that verse Jesus was not only claiming to be the Son of God, but God Himself.

So if the white throne is present on the earth in the 6th seal, does it stay in view until the NHNE? This time God is taking the vineyard away from the church and giving it back to the House of Jacob. Do you think the church has been as faithful or less faithful than those in authority, to whom, Jesus was teaching the Trinity? Is Revelation about Jacob's trouble or the church's trouble?

Douggg said:

No. Because when Jesus returns, he will rule the nations with a rod of iron for a thousand years, and there are not going to be any dictators the likes of Adoph Hilter, Ayatollah Knomeni, Joseph Stalin , Mao, and the like during that time.

At the end of the thousand years, there will be the last rebellion, Satan led deception of the nations during that short time, and there will be some leadership among those nations, including the former Gog-Magog nations - of goats, that will be quickly dwelt with by God destroying those armies when they try to attack Israel .

Followed by the Great White Throne Judgement, which all of the dead including the prior goats like Adolph Hitler, etc, will be raised, and all of the living on the earth, who did not take part in the rapture/resurrection before the millennium, and the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints in Revelation 20:4-6 at the beginning of the millennium, will appear before Jesus, at the Great White Throne judgment. There the goats will be cast into the lake of fire.

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It looks like you have the sheep receiving "eternal life" in the "kingdom prepared for" them "from the foundation of the world" 1000 years before the goats are cast into the lake of fire. How can that be? That is not indicated in Matthew 25:31-46. Instead, it indicates that the sheep get rewarded at the same time the goats get punished.

Also, Rev 20:11-15 indicates that all whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire at that time. Why do you only have some whose names are not written in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire at that time?

Which of your 2 judgment days is this passage referring to:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

When exactly do you think the day God has set to "judge the world with justice by the man He has appointed" will occur?

Spiritual Jew said:

It looks like you have the sheep receiving "eternal life" in the "kingdom prepared for" them "from the foundation of the world" 1000 years before the goats are cast into the lake of fire. How can that be? That is not indicated in Matthew 25:31-46. Instead, it indicates that the sheep get rewarded at the same time the goats get punished.

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Some sheep will, some sheep won't. There will be people born during the millennium, and some of them will embrace the gospel of salvation during their lifetime, and they will receive their eternal life bodies at the time of the Great White Throne judgement.

Spiritual Jew said:

Also, Rev 20:11-15 indicates that all whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire at that time. Why do you only have some whose names are not written in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire at that time?

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All of the unsaved dead, will be resurrected, and judged at the Great White Throne judgment.

Spiritual Jew said:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

When exactly do you think the day God has set to "judge the world with justice by the man He has appointed" will occur?

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At the Great White Throne judgement.

Christian Gedge said:

Just a quick point here regarding my suggestions. Not all Amills are the same, just as not all Premills are the same. Those who are of a Preterist kind would disagree with me. Idealists amills might disagree; I’m not sure about them. But my version of Amillennialism is the same as that of Kim Riddlebarger. He speaks quite clearly in his blog that he expects a major revival in the present Jewish nation after the ‘times of the Gentiles’, late in the '1000' years, and immediately before Jesus' coming. I hold to the same view.

I think it is explicit enough in Romans and other scriptures. Here is his blog sermon article about it. Click the link to his full pdf article.

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Thank you for that link.

Well, I have kept the same view in mind about Israel's repentance, but without allowing myself to become convinced of something that has not yet materialized.

My views are based on a number of things:-

1. Joseph:
* He was sold into slavery in Egypt (they may as well have handed over to death because they did not know what would become of him) for 20 pieces of silver at the instigation of Judah, who was a scoundrel right up until his repentance. Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.
* The Israelites took his robe dipped in blood as evidence to their father that he was dead (though in their case, it was a lie).
.. etc (there are a number of ways in which Joseph is not only a type of Jesus, but actually a prophetic picture).
* Joseph did not reveal to his brothers who he was until Judah showed repentance and remorse for what he had done.
* He could have had all his brothers except Benjamin put to death for what they had done to him, without even allowing them into his presence, and they would have been none the wiser - from their perspective, a very powerful Egyptian ruler, second only to Pharaoh in power and status, had sent them to the dungeon awaiting execution, ancient Egyptian style - but he did not, he forgave them - then "all Israel" was reconciled to him, and he brought them to live with him in the idyllic land of Goshen during a prolonged period of peace, safety and prosperity which only ended when another Pharaoh arose who had no regard for Joseph or Israel.

2. The house of Israel and the House of Judah (the New Covenant is promised to both the house of Israel and the house of Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-33)

* Jacob told Joseph that the seed of his son, Ephraim, would become "the fullness of the Gentiles" (multitude of nations in the English Bibles).
* The Northern Kingdom became collectively known as "Ephraim" in prophecy.
* Though a small handful of the Northern tribes escaped to Judah when Assyria invaded Israel, & this handful became amalgamated with the house of Judah, the vast majority were exiled, scattered among the nations, and their seed intermarried with Gentiles, to the point where the original ten tribes are untraceable today.
* Ezekiel's prophecy regarding the two sticks of Israel and Judah becoming one in the hand of Joseph, compared with Paul's statement regarding there being neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ.

* The last part is long, as it is an explanation of the above:-

Romans 9:25-26
"As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved."
And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God."

In its Old Testament context, the prophecy is talking about "Ephraim" or the house of Israel, but Paul is now applying the prophecy to the Gentiles who believe in Jesus.

The entire prophecy, in its context, speaks about God's judgment (at the time the prophecy was given) regarding both the house of Israel and the house of Judah:

Hosea 1:6-11
"And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And God said to him, Call her name No-mercy, for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel. But I will utterly take them away.
But I will have mercy on the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

And when she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son.
And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you.
Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God."

The prophecy closes with,

"Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land. For great shall be the day of Jezreel."

So at the time Hosea uttered the prophecy, God said He would no more have mercy upon the house of Israel, but He would have mercy on the house of Judah.

Then comes Paul's statement in Romans 11, regarding God's mercy:

Romans 11:30-32
"For as you also then disbelieved God, but now have been shown mercy through their disbelief,
even so these also have not believed now, so that through your mercy they may also obtain mercy. For God has shut up all in unbelief, so that He might show mercy to all."

In the days of Hosea, God no more had mercy on Ephraim (the house of Israel), but He had mercy on the house of Judah. At the time of Christ's crucifixion, it was switched around:

Matthew 23:39
"For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

I'm not saying that those Gentiles who believe in Christ are genetic descendants of the Northern Israelite tribes (clearly this is not the case). However, the vast majority of the house of Israel (Ephraim) was exiled, scattered among the nations, and their seed intermarried with Gentiles to the point where the original ten tribes are untraceable today.

So to me, this means that "the Olive tree" in Romans 11 still consists of those to whom the New Covenant was promised - "The house of Israel and the house of Judah" (Jer 31:31), and Gentiles who believe in Jesus are grafted into the olive tree among the remnant of the house of Judah who believe, but we are considered the house of Israel.

Hence, my handle and my signature.

I still don't believe this "theology" which I expressed here, because it's not a materialized reality, and obviously too many Christians have major issues with it - but It's something I bear in mind.

Douggg said:

Some sheep will, some sheep won't. There will be people born during the millennium, and some of them will embrace the gospel of salvation during their lifetime, and they will receive their eternal life bodies at the time of the Great White Throne judgement.

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There is no indication at all within Matthew 25:31-46 that it's only speaking of some sheep ("the righteous" - Matt 25:37,46) receiving eternal life in the kingdom prepared for us from the foundation of the world rather than all sheep.

Please show me the scripture which talks about the people who you believe will receive their eternal life bodies at the time of the GWT judgement. To me, that scripture is 1 Cor 15:50-54, but it does not indicate that only some receive their eternal life bodies at one time and some at another time. Instead, it teaches that ALL of our bodies will be changed at the last trumpet when Christ returns. All believers from all-time will receive their eternal life bodies at the last trumpet, as Paul taught in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

All of the unsaved dead, will be resurrected, and judged at the Great White Throne judgment.

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I agree, but the saved deal will be there as well, as Matthew 25:31-46 indicates. You can see in Matthew 25:31-46 that the goats (unbelievers) are cast into "everlasting fire" at the same time as the sheep receive "eternal life". There is no basis for thinking only the unsaved are present at the GWT judgment. We can see what happens to the unsaved in Rev 20:15, but if we just read on verse further (there were no chapter breaks in the original Greek), we can see that those who are saved inherit eternal life in the new heavens and new earth.

So, Matthew 25:41 (and 1st part of Matt 25:46) matches up with Rev 20:15 and Matthew 25:34 (and 2nd part of Matt 25:46) matches up with Rev 21:1-4.

At the Great White Throne judgement.

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This was your answer to the question of when this will occur:

Acts 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Why would you think this is only speaking of a day when God will judge the unsaved? Paul said that we (believers) too will stand before Christ's throne to give an account of ourselves.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

The day that God has set to judge the world "by the man He has appointed" (Jesus, obviously) is the day that all people, believers included, will give account of ourselves before the judgment seat of Christ, which is also called "His glorious throne" (Matt 25:31) and "the great white throne" (Rev 20:11).