I get the impression that American (Evangelical) Christians are supporting Trump, but why?

98cwitr · Nov 13, 2020

Albion said:
What I cited is near the bottom, so I'd appreciate you pointing me to what it is that you want me to see.

Do a find on the page for the word "ordain"

A few excerpts:

She begs Ignatius to not deny her request simply because the three are young and two of them newly ordained. Rather, she argues from the Scriptures that youth is no deterrent to a significant ministry for God.

Sometimes such women were formally ordained and sat with the rest of the clergy in front of the congregation.

Widows were clearly part of the ordained clergy in the Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ, a 5thcentury reworking of earlier material from Hippolytus’s Apostolic Tradition.

So history of the Church would demonstrate that we would be conserving the roles of women in the church. Anyway, we are off topic now...I will digress.

May God bless President Trump and/or may we be willing and equipped by God to face the wrath to come.

Albion · Nov 13, 2020

Alv Vatzdal said:
...but personally I try to follow various news from all over the world, and different views on politics, and generally they are pretty much accurate when it come to Trump, if I use the close up and personal opinions about him that I've read in books by Bob Woodward, Michael Cohen, Mary Trump etc.

So.....the writings that have the most (or the exclusive) influence on your thinking are by people who are among those most ardently, even viciously, opposed to President Trump.

Doesn't that explain your conclusions right there?

pitabread · Nov 13, 2020

98cwitr said:
Trump gave America the best economy she has ever seen.

I still find it odd that people associate economy booms with specific presidencies. By that token, Trump also gave America the single worst economic decline since the Great Depression.

Speedwell · Nov 13, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
And Biden. Neither one would be any reasonable Christian's first choice but one is left with choosing between them or choosing to opt out. So one chooses to vote for( not necessarily support) the candidate that one finds has promoted policies less distasteful to one. If one is against higher taxes, international interventionism, open borders, abortion, increased government regulation of business and religious institutions, and any other number of Democratic party policies then one has no choice but to vote for Trump. If one is against low taxes, strict borders, excessive name calling, looking unpresidential, mocking people, tweeting goof things, carbon based energy, and any number of policies that Trump( not necessarily the Republican Party) advocates then one has no choice but to vote for Biden. It really has little to do with the person and everything to do with what the person says about what they want to do. Unfortunately neither is likely to act fiscally responsible and neither they , nor anyone else that seeks high office, has the ability to find a way for government to give meaning to our lives or make us content.

Yes, if you are against policies that you imagine Democrats espouse then the best thing is to vote for Trump, who pretends to have policies you like.

Elfkind · Nov 13, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
Putting Trump support into the "bad religion" corner in order to dismiss very real Christian support for very logical reasons is disingenuous at best.

It's very difficult to know how to ask things or be honest and explain things when people seem to become so very upset about anything that might conflict with their opinions, such as it seem like you become very upset here.

How about explaining these very logical reasons? This is what I myself have problems with, seeing the logic's behind political views such as the one you are suggesting that you have. I really, honestly don't understand this very real Christian or very logical reason for supporting Trump. :sorry:

Thank you in advance for explaining to me. :wave:

Arc F1 · Nov 13, 2020

Alv Vatzdal said:
It just seem like a typical knee-jerk reaction from Trump-supporters to decry the media, and echo the opinion that media is "the enemy of the people" (of course, unless it's the kind of media that talk favorable about him), but personally I try to follow various news from all over the world, and different views on politics, and generally they are pretty much accurate when it come to Trump, if I use the close up and personal opinions about him that I've read in books by Bob Woodward, Michael Cohen, Mary Trump etc. It's an nontraditional, unconventional and unusual political figure to say it mildly.

How about talking about why you support Trump, and try to explain to a foreigner like myself what in his politics that seem to be good and true for you? Because I honestly, hand on my heart, don't understand a think about what anyone might think is positive, and specially not whatever about him might make Christians support him?

Thanks in advance for giving me your viewpoint, if you care to explain this mystery to me.

PS! Please let me know if anything of what I write feels offensive! I'm honesty really confused about what I might have done wrong in my last post, and I'm really not a person that say or do things that hurt people, but I do have the experience that I have often been disliked by people because I care more about talking the truth, then if telling lies would make people think better of me.

I tend to agree, if I think about Christians outside USA. Trump seem to be a character that is very much an American phenomena, and something uniquely archetypal of that nation, but here in Europe it don't seem like anyone look at him as anything else then a joke, or make people like myself deeply worried for the largest military arsenal in the world ending up in the wrong hands. I can't see anything about Trump that make me think he have anything to do with Christianity, but I understand that Christians perhaps don't understand anymore in USA what they are doing or what is real and what is true and what is a lie.

I was very happy to see Biden win, and very upset that there's accusation about voter fraud, something that he really, pretty much made clear in advance that he thought, since it undermine the democratic process and might even make people turn to violence, and the way I understand the current administration, I don't doubt for a second that they would cause a deathblow to democracy and declare Trump to be the first emperor of USA, nor do I doubt, by what I've seen so far, that his supporters would think this was according to law and order, Christian values, and patriotism.

I didn't think you were offensive. You can say whatever you want. BTW Trump wasn't the first to attack a news channel. That honor goes to the one before him.

I voted for Trump to disrupt the politics as usual. So far its worked. We for too long now have had to sit back and endure a currupt government. It was time to shake things up. The people don't want abortions to be legal, we don't want more rights for homosexuals and we don't want liberal values. We want to get back to hard work and earning what you have.

Albion · Nov 13, 2020

98cwitr said:
We may need to clarify our definitions of "clergy." Would you agree that anyone who is "ordained" is a member of the clergy?

Definition of CLERGY

"Yes" to the need for a definition. I use it, as most people do, to refer to called and installed deacons, priests/presbyters (and) bishops.

These are the orders today's women's ordination movement wants women to be admitted to. In this article which runs around the issue without ever coming to grips with it, but does give us a rundown of every possible innuendo, hint, speculation, and "close enough" possibility without showing any evidence for women in those positions in the Apostolic Church...it also takes liberty with "clergy" and "ordained."

Albion · Nov 13, 2020

pitabread said:
I still find it odd that people associate economy booms with specific presidencies. By that token, Trump also gave America the single worst economic decline since the Great Depression.

"Trump gave America...?"

Because of a disease that no one can solve and which stopped the economy from functioning as it had been??

That's not a very strong argument.

grasping the after wind · Nov 13, 2020

Speedwell said:
Yes, if you are against policies that you imagine Democrats espouse then the best thing is to vote for Trump, who pretends to have policies you like.

I am using the actions of of Democrat politicians to determine what policies Joe Biden espouses . I am using Trump's four years worth of actions to determine what policies he espouses. I cannot read minds so I don't proport to know what anyone pretends. I also do not take anything any of them says as something that can be trusted.

pitabread · Nov 13, 2020

Albion said:
"Trump gave America...?"

Because of a disease that no one can solve and which stopped the economy from functioning as it had been??

That's not a very strong argument.

Well yeah, that's my entire point. Arbitrarily associating the economy with a presidency by proximity alone doesn't make much sense. Yet, people do it anyway.

loveofourlord · Nov 13, 2020

Arc F1 said:
What if the media was wrong and he wasn't a racist nazi Supreme? Would you believe it?

you would have to actually delete his own words and actions. People don't hate him for how the news portrays him, we hate him for how he portrays himself.

It's like the whole grab her by the &$#($, people said, "People can change in a decade." and my response was, "Yeah and if he had shown any signs that he HAD changed, and wasn't insulting woman anchors, and attacking handicap reporters maybe we would think he had changed."

loveofourlord · Nov 13, 2020

pitabread said:
Well yeah, that's my entire point. Arbitrarily associating the economy with a presidency by proximity alone doesn't make much sense. Yet, people do it anyway.

not to mention if trump had done his best to stop the pandemic and the economy tanked I wouldn't care as much, it's that didn't just do nothing, he actively made it worse time and time again is why he's blamed. Heck if trump had shut down the economy and controlled the virus he would have won the election hands down.

Speedwell · Nov 13, 2020

Albion said:
"Trump gave America...?"

Because of a disease that no one can solve and which stopped the economy from functioning as it had been??

That's not a very strong argument.

It's just as good as the argument that Trump was responsible for all the job growth leading up to it (which actually began during Obama's first term.)

Albion · Nov 13, 2020

pitabread said:
Well yeah, that's my entire point. Arbitrarily associating the economy with a presidency by proximity alone doesn't make much sense. Yet, people do it anyway.

Well, sure. If its about the guy's political doings, his policies, his administrative decisions. Not when something that is beyond his or anyone else's control befalls the country!

Albion · Nov 13, 2020

Speedwell said:
It's just as good as the argument that Trump was responsible for all the job growth leading up to it (which actually began during Obama's first term.)

C'mon, man. (You see I'm trying to get into the swing of things for the benefit of the new administration. Doesn't saying "C'mon, man" answer all questions in my favor??)

Obama did not solve, but rather maintained, the Great Recession. There was no significant recovery during his eight years. That's why it's called "the Great Recession."

loveofourlord · Nov 13, 2020

Albion said:
Well, sure. If its about the guy's political doings, his policies, his administrative decisions. Not when something that is beyond his or anyone else's control befalls the country!

Right....except it was under his control and he's the one that actively worked against making it better for months.

Bobber · Nov 13, 2020

Alv Vatzdal said:
I was very happy to see Biden win, and very upset that there's accusation about voter fraud, ...

Why should you be upset about that? You obviously don't know the full measure of accusations made and what will come before the Courts to make a final decision. It seems you want to give absolute approval to what you consider to be the reputation of men. One of the great Founding Fathers of America pointed out that is dangerous.

".... in questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the constitution." Thomas Jefferson 1798

Doesn't really matter how much confidence you have in Biden! Doesn't really matter if you think there's no way he or his group can't be guilty of nefarious things in this election. What matters is that the Rule of Law and legal recourse be allowed for someone who thinks that maybe there was. If you're against that being allowed to take place maybe that's the thing you should be upset about.

pitabread · Nov 13, 2020

Albion said:
Well, sure. If its about the guy's political doings, his policies, his administrative decisions. Not when something that is beyond his or anyone else's control befalls the country!

The pandemic itself may not be in Trump's control, but the U.S. response to the pandemic was certainly within his realm of control/influence. And it goes without saying that the U.S. response has been catastrophically poor and Trump has played a direct result in that.

He especially doesn't seem particularly interested in the fact that the U.S. is headed for a severe disaster right NOW due to rising case counts/deaths, yet all he can do is keep whining about the election.

Which is why again, I find it odd that people willing to laud Trump for the economic boom (which incidentally began well into Obama's presidency), yet abnegate Trump's responsibility for the economic downfall as a result of the pandemic.

Speedwell · Nov 13, 2020

Albion said:
C'mon, man. (You see I'm trying to get into the swing of things for the benefit of the new administration. Doesn't saying "C'mon, man" answer all questions in my favor??)

Obama did not solve, but rather maintained, the Great Recession. There was no significant recovery during his eight years. That's why it's called "the Great Recession."

Given the number of times I alone have posted the facts for your benefit, that is beginning to verge on an intentional falsehood. Here, once again, are the unemployment rate figures for the period in question:

Notice when the figures start trending downward. Or do you think Trump was already President in 2010?

ArmenianJohn · Nov 13, 2020

Arc F1 said:
I back Trump. I don't buy into any of that.

But you're in agreement with "Pastor" Paula White, so go figure... What fellowship hath light with darkness?

I get the impression that American (Evangelical) Christians are supporting Trump, but why?

Lord forgive me

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Let the righteous man arise from slumber

Facilitator

Facilitator

That's grasping after the wind

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

Facilitator

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

Similar threads