The abomination of desolation

Ki Won said:

We read about the abomination of desolation in several places in the Bible, that he "makes desolate" etc. This thread is about the desolation, not anything else, I want to know what people think the desolation is that the Bible refers to.

We know the Anti-Christ is the one who makes desolate or who causes desolation, that's not what I'm after here, simply what is it that is made desolate and how (why?). What do you think it is?

Don't go filling the thread with arguments over who is right or wrong, just tell us what you think it means, please. I know about the historical events, I'm not after a history lesson, what do you think the (still future) desolation is going to be?

Click to expand...

ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION. A phrase occurring in the OT book of Daniel (11:31, 12:11, and perhaps 9:27), in 1 Maccabees 1:54, and in the teaching of Jesus as recorded in the synoptic gospels (Matt 24:15, Mark 13:14; see GOSPELS, LITTLE APOCALYPSE IN). The phrase refers in Daniel and 1 Maccabees to the desecration of the temple by the pagan emperor Antiochus Epiphanes in 167 B.C.E. and in the teaching of Jesus to some analagous disaster which he anticipates.

Wenham, D. (1992). Abomination of Desolation. In D. N. Freedman (Ed.), The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (Vol. 1, p. 28). New York: Doubleday.

Ki Won said:

We read about the abomination of desolation in several places in the Bible, that he "makes desolate" etc. This thread is about the desolation, not anything else, I want to know what people think the desolation is that the Bible refers to.

We know the Anti-Christ is the one who makes desolate or who causes desolation, that's not what I'm after here, simply what is it that is made desolate and how (why?). What do you think it is?

Don't go filling the thread with arguments over who is right or wrong, just tell us what you think it means, please. I know about the historical events, I'm not after a history lesson, what do you think the (still future) desolation is going to be?

Click to expand...

Welcome! In all cases it was unrepentant, idolatrous Isreal that harnessed the abomination towards the God of Israel with the final desolation taking place in 70AD when they rejected Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Be blessed.

Ki Won said:

We read about the abomination of desolation in several places in the Bible, that he "makes desolate" etc. This thread is about the desolation, not anything else, I want to know what people think the desolation is that the Bible refers to.

We know the Anti-Christ is the one who makes desolate or who causes desolation, that's not what I'm after here, simply what is it that is made desolate and how (why?). What do you think it is?

Don't go filling the thread with arguments over who is right or wrong, just tell us what you think it means, please. I know about the historical events, I'm not after a history lesson, what do you think the (still future) desolation is going to be?

Click to expand...

"Desolation" is the absence of God. Some "abomination" that causes desolation is that which chases God away. But it leaves a "chicken or the egg" question. Does the desolation cause God to leave, or is the desolation what is left behind, apart from God.

I personally do not believe in a future "abomination that causes desolation" in the sense that many people believe. But if society chases God away, desolation is what will be left.

Ki Won said:

We read about the abomination of desolation in several places in the Bible, that he "makes desolate" etc. This thread is about the desolation, not anything else, I want to know what people think the desolation is that the Bible refers to.

We know the Anti-Christ is the one who makes desolate or who causes desolation, that's not what I'm after here, simply what is it that is made desolate and how (why?). What do you think it is?

Don't go filling the thread with arguments over who is right or wrong, just tell us what you think it means, please. I know about the historical events, I'm not after a history lesson, what do you think the (still future) desolation is going to be?

Click to expand...

2nd Thessalonians 2
3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God
This is the future AoD

Ki Won said:

So do I take it that you don't believe that there will be a (still future) desolation, Maria?

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With the tearing of the veil from top to bottom, the holy sanctuary was opened to all who are in the Body of Christ. No longer was any sacrifice needed in the temple to atoned for sin. The temple was already made desolate as Emmanuel "God with us" , the final sacrifice, was the fulfilment that codified our connection with the Father for eternity. Through His Son , by His death, resurrection and ascension, enabled His Holy Spirit to live within the believer. The desolation was directed to Temple Judaism and those who followed its apostate ways by the rejection of The Messiah.
The temple is now the Body of Christ, The Kingdom of God. Desolation is impossible in the Kingdom however separation is very possible through deception and apostasy The things of this world are not of the Father.

So I guess in short, no.

Ki Won said:

I want to know what people think the desolation is that the Bible refers to.

Click to expand...

The first Abomination happened around 167 b.c.
There are Two more Abominations, I could not stress
enough the duel nature of a lot of prophesied events.

A physical army is what makes Jerusalem desolate,
It desecrates the Holy place [Jerusalem itself].

The king of the north enters, troops arrive for peace,
but do a double cross and half of the city is taken.
-

There is also a spiritual abomination of desolation.
An army was given to Satan “against the daily.”

By him the “daily” was taken away. Just as in Dan 12:11,
“sacrifice” is in italics and should be left out of the translation.
A third temple does not have to be built before Christs return.

Notice the daily is taken away because of transgression, this is
a different event than in Dan 12:11, where there is a “daily”
taken away because of righteousness—to the place of safety.

Daniel 12 an end-time Antiochus violently shatters the power
of the holy people. But here in Daniel 8, he subtly comes to
the temple with flatteries.

Anciently, the daily sacrifice was offered in the temple.
Today, the temple is the Church, the daily in prophecy
refers to the sacrifice, or continue work, of the Church.

Dan 8 is discussing transgression, truth being cast to the
ground—a satanic host practicing and prospering at destroying
the daily—all from within the sanctuary, God’s own Church.

Ki Won said:

We read about the abomination of desolation in several places in the Bible, that he "makes desolate" etc. This thread is about the desolation, not anything else, I want to know what people think the desolation is that the Bible refers to.

Click to expand...

Abomination: a.bom.i.na'shan, the act of abominating. a.bom'i.nat, v.t. --abominated, abominating. [L. abominor, abominatus, to deprecate, as an ill omen--ab, from, and omen, an omen.] Abomination, (1)Something extremely hated or despised; (2)that which is abhored; (3)something detestable; (4)the state of being loathed. (5)something that produces a strong aversion, as disgust.

Desolation: des'o.la'shan, n. [L.L. desolatio(n-).] (1)Being in a state of ruin; (2)Destitute of consolation; (3)forsaken; (4)Devastated; deprived of inhabitants; (5)barren or waste; (6)dreary or dismal. (7)depravation of companionship or comfort; --des.o.late.ly, adv.--des.o.late.ness, n.

Jeremiah 7:30-31

• "for the children of Judah have done evil in My sight, saith the Lord: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to pollute it.
• and they have built the high places to Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of hunnon, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into My heart."

Here again we see this word [shiqquwts] or abomination as an illustration of the unclean disgusting practice of God's people forsaking the true Deity to serve the gods of men. By doing so they are making the Lord's house unclean and detestable. They are polluting His dwelling place, which is most abhorrent to a holy God. And He is not silent concerning these abominations, He warns His people that those who do such things in the Lord's house will be left in "desolation." That will be their judgment.

Leviticus 26:30-32

• "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
• And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
• And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it."

"Desolation" is the judgment that the Lord has decreed upon His people who go after the false gods or idols of the unbelievers. And that Hebrew word translated "desolation" is [shamem], the exact same word used in Daniel's prophecy of the "Abomination that makes desolate." It means brought to ruin or devastated. Clearly, this abomination of God's people in going after false gods would bring His judgment upon them leaving them destitute or destroyed. Thus the Biblical precedent is set in Leviticus and is carried out all through the scriptures. This abomination, and the judgment thereof, is clearly and frequently identified in the word. And this principle is not only seen in Old Testament testimony, it continues into the New Testament. Abomination standing in God's house will make it desolate, a forsaken place that is deprived of God's blessings. When Christ spoke in Matthew chapter twenty-four of the coming fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel, note carefully the context. It is of Him warning of these very same abominable things in God's house that would bring it to ruin. Namely, the coming of false prophets to deceive, and who obviously serve false gods. The context of Matthew 24 is of the prophecy of God's people falling away from God, to serve false gods in the holy place. And whosoever reads that prophesy should understand very clearly that the only "Holy Places" that could be subject to future prophesy after the cross, are:

1. Christ
2. The body of believers
3. The visible Church

There were no other Holy Places that are eligible to be Holy Places of God after He judged Old Testament Israel by His death on the cross. A Jewish temple inner room in the city of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 did not any longer qualify to be the Holy Place of God that would have abomination stand in it. For that place in the physical Temple of Jerusalem was no longer holy, nor was it God's Dwelling place 30 plus years after the cross. In Matthew twenty-four Christ speaks of a future event when many false prophets would rise and deceive many. It is in this context that the "Holy Place" would have abomination stand in it and God's people would have to flee. The context is that this takes place in the midst of great trial and tribulation for the true believers that are besieged by these false prophets and false Christs. The Holy Place thus isn't a Jewish temple, but the corporate or visible Church.

Matthew 24:15

• "When ye therefore shall see the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the Prophet stand in the Holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
• then let them which be in Judaea flee into the Mountains:"

Many questions "when" this abomination of desolation must take place. But the answer is right in the context of the chapter. It is obviously speaking of the time of iniquity abounding, and of this "great tribulation," and the time clue is that this period will be very unique. A.D. 70 simply does NOT qualify without all sorts of exegetical and hermeneutical gymnastics attempted in order to get around clear grammatical text.

Matthew 24:21

• "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

God informs us that this is a time of tribulation like none before, and like none ever will be again. Thus it could not be speaking of a time that was past, or the period of A.D. 70. Neither period qualifies as a tribulation for believers greater than the world has ever seen, nor ever will see. For such a period will not occur until after Satan is loosed to gather his world armies against them. So this abomination that makes desolate is a prophecy of the latter days, not the immediate time of the Apostles or A.D. 70 or even future third physical temple as premillennialists believe. And this is also confirmed by cross-referencing this in the books of Luke and Daniel. Luke chapter 21 mirrors Matthew but speaks of Jerusalem as being the point of attack and desolation.

Luke 21:20

• "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
• Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."

Matthew speaks of the Holy place as where the abomination that makes desolate stands, and Luke tells us that when we see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then we know that its desolation is nigh. Thus we see that Jerusalem, the Holy Place, and Judaea, are all synonymous terms signifying the corporate Church. In other words, they are all figures or types of the dwelling place of the Lord's people. God was not talking about physical lands in the Middle East. Judaea because it means "of Judah", Lion's whelp from which the King and deliverer were to come (Genesis 49:9-11). Just as Christ is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah (Revelation 5:5) because He is the fulfillment. Thus the Church is the family or tribe of Judah coming from Christ Himself. Likewise they are pictured as Jerusalem because it "represented" the Holy and beloved city of God. God's word declares that we have "spiritually" come unto Jerusalem, the dwelling place of God's people. Not a physical city. Listen to what God says:

Hebrews 12:22-23

• "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
• To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,"

Not an earthly Jerusalem, but a spiritual heavenly Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a word picture, a synonym for the holy assembly of God, the same holy city of the New Testament that is called to spread the gospel to the world.

Matthew 5:14

• "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid."

Jesus equates the Church spiritually to a city set on a hill so that everyone all around it can see it's light. This city is spiritually Jerusalem! The holy city of God from the New Testament perspective dispensation is the congregation, the light of the world. We are the Holy City, the spiritual Jerusalem that the corporate or external Church "represents." The house of God is the Church.

Therefore, the prophecies about the abomination of desolation will take place WITHIN God's church, the New Testament congregation on this side of the Cross, where many false prophets and christs bringing abominations (false gospels, worldly music, world entertainment, gay pastors, female pastors, free will, physical healing, speaking in tongues, divorce, and remarriage, political, Zionism, etc., etc.) that leads churches into spiritual desolation where God's Elect can see and flee. This is what Christ talked about! Nothing to do with 70AD or Future temple in the Middle East.

Selah!

Semper-Fi said:

Anciently, the daily sacrifice was offered in the temple.
Today, the temple is the Church, the daily in prophecy
refers to the sacrifice, or continue work, of the Church.

Dan 8 is discussing transgression, truth being cast to the
ground—a satanic host practicing and prospering at destroying
the daily—all from within the sanctuary, God’s own Church.

Click to expand...

Very good. There is a daily sacrifice in the church for the past 2,000 years. It was Christ, Your Messiah the Prince, who has confirmed a covenant with many (Elect) for one week. Christ offer sacrifice for his people for the past 2,000 years until he has secured all of His Elect (Revelation 7:1-4). THEN, and only then, it is "HE" (Christ) who have caused the sacrifice needed for salvation to cease. In other words, Christ has secured all of his Elect. No more salvation until Christ returns. And it is also the same "HE" who has allowed the false prophets and Christs with lying signs and wonders to come into his unfaithful congregations (signifies Babylon the great) as a judgment that leads her to desolate. This is why God warned His Elect that when they "SEE" the abomination of desolation, flee from the church where false prophets and christ rules, so you won't partake of the plagues that God pours upon her! Elect can see these things as TRUE SIGNS of Christ's return while many professed Christians (foolish virgins of Matthew 25) cannot see the true signs without spirit of Christ. That is why many of them are deceived by Preterism doctrines (70AD) and Premillennialism, Christian Zionism, and national Israel.

I believe is what is taking place right now.

Ki Won said:

We read about the abomination of desolation in several places in the Bible, that he "makes desolate" etc. This thread is about the desolation, not anything else, I want to know what people think the desolation is that the Bible refers to.

We know the Anti-Christ is the one who makes desolate or who causes desolation, that's not what I'm after here, simply what is it that is made desolate and how (why?). What do you think it is?

Don't go filling the thread with arguments over who is right or wrong, just tell us what you think it means, please. I know about the historical events, I'm not after a history lesson, what do you think the (still future) desolation is going to be?

Click to expand...

In terms of what Jesus was referring to in the Olivet Discourse it was the desolation of the temple buildings standing in Jerusalem at that time and the city itself.

Jesus was asked 2 questions in the Olivet Discourse and the first related to the timing of the destruction of the temple buildings.

Mark 13:1 As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!”2 “Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

In the Mark 13 and Luke 21 accounts, it's not as clear that they asked Him 2 questions about 2 different events, but that is made more clear in the Matthew 24 account.

Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

The question "when will this happen" had to do with when the temple buildings would be destroyed as Jesus said they would be.

This is how Jesus answered that question:

Matthew 24:15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Mark 13: “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let no one on the housetop go down or enter the house to take anything out. 16 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 17 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 18 Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.

Luke 21:20 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

In Matthew and Mark, it was Jews who were the primary audience, so Matthew and Mark knew that their Jewish readers would understand what "the abomination that causes desolation" would mean (it's a reference to Daniel 9:24-27). That's why it says "let the reader understand".

Luke, on the other hand, was addressing his letter to Gentiles, so he knew he would need to specify what the abomination that causes desolation referred to exactly in order for them to understand.

And Luke indicated that the timing of the fulfillment of the abomination that causes desolation would relate to the time when Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies and made desolate by those armies. Which is what happened around 70 AD when Jerusalem had been surrounded by Roman armies who then attacked Jerusalem and destroyed the city and its temple buildings.

With all that said, I do want to make it clear that I'm not a partial preterist. As I said earlier, Jesus was asked 2 questions. The other question related to His coming and the end of the age which has not yet occurred.

Ki Won said:

I want to know what people think the desolation is that the Bible refers to.

Click to expand...

The temple will be made desolate from praise and worship of the One True God.

No praise and worship of the One True God going on in the temple, temple mount, at that time.

The three things that will make the temple desolate are the beast, the false prophet, and the statue image of the beast (the abomination of desolation) incarnated by Satan.

Douggg said:

The temple will be made desolate from praise and worship of the One True God.

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"Desolate" = empty...void of His presence. I'm not sure how praising the One True God would make the Temple void of His presence?

TribulationSigns said:

Very good. There is a daily sacrifice in the church
for the past 2,000 years......

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[..seal the book, to the time of the end: ...]
The book of Daniel is for this end time. Dan 12:4

“Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will,
O God. He taketh away the first, that he
may establish the second” Hebrews 10:9.

Dan 12:11And from the timeH4480 H6256 "that"
the dailyH8548 "sacrifice" shall be taken away,

[..from the time the daily shall be taken away,]

The Cambridge Bible reads,
[..the continual shall be taken away,]

Daniel 12:11, Daniel 8:12 “sacrifice” is in
italics and should be left out of the translation.

We all know Jesus one sacrifice is done,
there is no more physical sacrifices required.

“By the which will we are sanctified through the
offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”

Today we are the Temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16
" Know ye not that ye are the [temple] of God,
and "that" the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

G3485
?a?´? , naos , nah-os'
From a primary word ?a?´? naio¯ (to dwell); a fane,
shrine, temple: - shrine, temple. Compare G2411.

1 Corinthians 3:17 templeG3485
1 Corinthians 6:19 templeG3485
2 Corinthians 6:16 templeG3485

“Ye also, as lively stones, are built up
[a spiritual house], an holy priesthood,
to offer up [spiritual sacrifices], acceptable
to God by Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 2:5).

Spirit-led people can, or should see the
spiritual counterpart to the physical
sacrifices in the bible. You are a spiritual
sacrifice for God today (Romans 12:1).
-

Christ is the High Priest of the spiritual temple,
the Church. The sacrificial system was re-
placed by Christ’s sacrifice (Hebrews 8:13).
(Hebrews 10:11-12). The Levitical priesthood
was removed and re-placed by the Melchisedec
priesthood (Hebrews 7).

“Now where remission of these is, there is
no more offering for sin” (Hebrews 10:18)

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which
he hath consecrated for us, through the veil,
that is to say, his flesh; And having an highpriest
over the house of God”. We have a new way
to live and a High Priest over God’s house.
-

There will be another temple during the mill,
Christ will be responsible for building the
Ezekiel temple (Ezekiel 40:1, 3, 14).

He does the measuring physically and
spiritually (verses 19, 23, 28, 32).

Christ is measuring the spiritual templeG3485
today (Revelation 11:1). Revelation 3:12

Ezekiel’s temple is called a house of prayer.
every place incense shall be offered -Malachi 1:11

Incense is a type of our prayers (Revelation 8:3).
God is addressing His own Church and its
spiritual problems and prayers.

The Lord filled the house” (Ezekiel 43:1-5, 6-7)
God is going to dwell in our midst.

Christ will have His office in the holy of holies
during the Millennium. After that, God the
Father will comedown, and both Christ and
our Father will be located in new Jerusalem.
-

“Two women shall begrinding at the mill; the
one shall be taken, and the other left”
(Matthew 24:41). The Philadelphian woman
(or Church) is taken to a place of safety.
The Laodicean woman is left behind.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear
what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
-

“Blessed is that servant, whom his lord
when he cometh shall find [so doing]” .

They that [continue doing] the Work of God.
"If ye continue in my word John 8:31

Let brotherly love continue Hebrews 13:1
Continue in prayer and watch Colossians 4:2
continuing instant in prayer Romans 12:12
And they continued stedfastly Acts 2:42
all continued with one accord Acts 1:14

But continue thou in the things which
thou hast learned 2 Timothy 3:14

The Daily, or the Continual is the Work of
Gods church, that will never be destroyed.
"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"
Matthew 16:18.

Are we doing the continual Work of God?

mkgal1 said:

"Desolate" = empty...void of His presence. I'm not sure how praising the One True God would make the Temple void of His presence?

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desolate from the Jews or anyone else praising and worshiping the One True God during that time.

First, there will be the transgression of desolation - the stopping of the daily sacrifice, and the act of the Antichrist of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood. Revealing himself to be the man of sin, and not the messiah after all, as the Jews will have previously thought.

Then, after the revealed man of sin is killed for his audacious act, and later brought back to life as the beast, the false prophet has the statue image made of the beast and placed on the temple courtyard. The abomination of desolation.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 templeG3485

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above
all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the [temple]
of God, shewing himself that he is God.

John 2:19 templeG3485
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy
this [temple], and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:21 templeG3485, [body]G4983
But he spake of the temple of his [body].

G4983
s??µa , so¯ma, so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole),
used in a very wide application, literally
or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

This is not the same as a Physical temple.

The Obama nation was fulfilled. Although we may get 8 more years on top of the 8 we already had.