What About Progressive Sanctification?

Jesus is YHWH said:

Can you update me on this discussion is a nutshell ?

How are you distinguishing the God of Scripture from the Trinity or are you ?

Or is it that the God of the Bible is really not Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent ?

Is it the Attributes of God that you dispute or that God is a Trinity ?

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I'm a Trinitarian. I pointed you to a thread of mine recently. You evidently didn't read it last time, and probably wouldn't read it now. Much easier to ask cherry-picking questions, right? So why should I give the answers? Look, when the church has brainwashed the world for 2,000 years to only think of God in one way, anyone like me who comes along saying something different will sound outlandish - unless you're willing to SERIOUSLY consider the LOGIC of what I am saying. (And that will take some reading).

You do get that traditional Christology is all smoke and mirrors, right? The very theologians who espouse the hypostatic union admit it is a humanly incomprehensible claim. It's absolute gibberish. It's like trying to read, write, and speak chinese when you've never learned the language.

You can't find a COHERENT solution to the Incarnation on traditional assumptions about God. That should have given the church a clue that most of their assumptions about Him are mistaken.

But again, if Christians can't be intellectually honest enough to admit that traditional theology, to a large extent, DOES NOT WORK, and DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, why should I waste my breath providing solutions?

The Incarnation is a cinch to explain on my metaphysics. I remember a guy on this forum telling me that such a boast is total nonsense. And then I when I showed him, he became very quiet on that thread. He still participated but didn't challenge me again.

RickReads said:

In Job 37:16, Elihu asked Job if he knew “the wondrous works of Him who is perfect in knowledge?” This verse contains a starting point for understanding the vastness of God’s knowledge.

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Um...who is claiming that God's knowledge isn't vast? You do get that He manages 100 billion galaxies, right? He's literally got His hand on every particle of matter and, in my opinion, manually exerts force on each particle to uphold the stars - a phenomenon that scientists call "gravity". (And that's not to mention a simultaneity of electrical forces, AND magnetic forces, AND electro-magnetic forces, on these particles). That isn't vast knowledge in your view?

What YOU need to understand is that infinitude - a self-contradictory philosophical concept - isn't necessary for God to be YOUR FATHER. (That's what Jesus called Him, right?). And the quintessential Ruler and Judge.

Infinite knowledge isn't something gained over time. It must be innate (part of God's definition) if it exists. But if it is part of God's definition, the Incarnation is logically impossible - an ignorant babe having to learn how to speak Hebrew.

RickReads said:

Huh?

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Asked the guy who has abided in denial from one post to the next. That post was clear enough.

RickReads said:

Huh?

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"Huh" is right. Here's an example of mainstream Christology.
(1) God is immutable.
(2) God became man.

Huh? That's the kind of "thinking" you've bought into (if we really want to dignify it with that classification).

You might want to inspect the merchandise before you buy it.

RickReads said:

You are just a really mean person aren`t ya. WoW.

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LOL. All I do is point out logical contradictions. If the best response that you can muster is, "You big meanie!", that's all on you.

RickReads said:

Truth is, I suspect your theology is based on some type of weird secular criticism of Christianity.

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Again, nobody cares what you "think" - what matters here is what you can demonstrate. You certainly cannot demonstrate a fully coherent position - not on traditional assumptions at least.

RickReads said:

My positions on scripture are very strong, these games you want to play have little to do with that.

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A position riddled with internal contradictions does not qualify as a "strong" stance on Scripture.

JAL said:

I'm a Trinitarian. I pointed you to a thread of mine recently. You evidently didn't read it last time, and probably wouldn't read it now. Much easier to ask cherry-picking questions, right? So why should I give the answers? Look, when the church has brainwashed the world for 2,000 years to only think of God in one way, anyone like me who comes along saying something different will sound outlandish - unless you're willing to SERIOUSLY consider the LOGIC of what I am saying. (And that will take some reading).

You do get that traditional Christology is all smoke and mirrors, right? The very theologians who espouse the hypostatic union admit it is a humanly incomprehensible claim. It's absolute gibberish. It's like trying to read, write, and speak chinese when you've never learned the language.

You can't find a COHERENT solution to the Incarnation on traditional assumptions about God. That should have given the church a clue that most of their assumptions about Him are mistaken.

But again, if Christians can't be intellectually honest enough to admit that traditional theology, to a large extent, DOES NOT WORK, and DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, why should I waste my breath providing solutions?

The Incarnation is a cinch to explain on my metaphysics. I remember a guy on this forum telling me that such a boast is total nonsense. And then I when I showed him, he became very quiet on that thread. He still participated but didn't challenge me again.

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I do not need the creeds or any theologian to define what the Scriptures declare that God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as there are plenty of passages which teach that God is Plural. The same with the Deity of Christ since there are plenty of Scripture stating Jesus is both God and man, human and Divine. John 1:1; 14, Colossians 1:19:2:9- that all the fulness of Deity dwells in Him, that to see Him is to see the Father, that He is equal with the Father. That there is One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. I could go on and on but this is enough evidence from Scripture. I'm a biblical Trinitarian and do not need anything outside of Scripture to support the above. But I also agree with the Creeds but do not need them to support the Plurality of God or the 2 natures in Christ.

hope this helps !!!

Jesus is YHWH said:

I do not need the creeds or any theologian to define what the Scriptures declare that God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as there are plenty of passages which teach that God is Plural.The same with the Deity of Christ since there are plenty of Scripture stating Jesus is both God and man, human and Divine. John 1:1; 14, Colossians 1:19:2:9- that all the fulness of Deity dwells in Him, that to see Him is to see the Father, that He is equal with the Father. That there is One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. I could go on and on but this is enough evidence from Scripture. I'm a biblical Trinitarian and do not need anything outside of Scripture to support the above.

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Your point? (Sigh). Again, I'm a Trinitarian. Please don't waste our time debating things not in dispute. Or is this just a strawman tactic?

But I also agree with the Creeds but do not need them to support the Plurality of God or the 2 natures in Christ. hope this helps !!!

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I can't debate the specific logistics of the hypostatic union ("2 natures in Christ") because the moderators will shut down this thread. I CAN tell you what the theologians themselves admit about it. It's a humanly incomprehensible claim! That means it's gibberish! It's all smoke and mirrors!

That doesn't qualify as a "stance" or a "doctrine" in my view, so I can't really debate it with you. If you have something concrete to debate - a real position - feel free to apprise me.

JAL said:

Your point? (Sigh). Again, I'm a Trinitarian. Please don't waste our time debating things not in dispute. Or is this just a strawman tactic?


I can't debate the specific logistics of the hypostatic union ("2 natures in Christ") because the moderators will shut down this thread. I CAN tell you what the theologians themselves admit about it. It's a humanly incomprehensible claim! That means it's gibberish! It's all smoke and mirrors!

That doesn't qualify as a "stance" or a "doctrine" in my view, so I can't really debate it with you. If you have something concrete to debate - a real position - feel free to apprise me.

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Why is it incompressible ?

Scripture declares its true and I believe the bible and the witness of Jesus and the Apostles concerning His Divinity and Humanity.

You have made a strawman concerning Christ.

Its no more incomprehensible than believing the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God yet God is One.

Its no more incomprehensible than to believe Gods Spirit actually dwells in a believer. That we are Gods Temple and He lives in us,

hope this helps !!!

Jesus is YHWH said:

Why is it incompressible ?

Scripture declares its true and I believe the bible and the witness of Jesus and the Apostles concerning His Divinity and Humanity.

You have made a strawman concerning Christ.

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I have a feeling you don't know the specifics of the hypostatic union. If you did, you'd admit that it is incomprehensible. Unless you are in denial (a very strong possibility on these forums, it seems).

Here's what theologians admit about the hypostatic union, "No sane study of Christology even pretends to fathom it" (Charles Lee Feinberg, "The Hypostatic Union: Part 2," Bibliotheca Sacra, (1935), p. 412).

Why is it incompressible ?

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Again, if I go into the specifics of the problematical nature of the position, the moderators will shut down the thread.

RickReads said:

You know little about my beliefs. Another pseudo-intellectual remark.

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More ad hominem, as expected.