What About Progressive Sanctification?

RickReads said:

I`m here to talk about scriptures. I`m tired of your philosophy class leftovers.

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Said the guy who introduced "omniscience" into his conversation with me.

And when do concepts such as justification, God's love, and so forth - the biblical concepts I've been discussing - count as mere philosophy? Oh that's right - only when they can be shown to contradict your position. At that point you go ad hominem.

RickReads said:

Ok, tell me all about it. Load this thread up.

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Why? So I can watch you continue in more denial, dodge-ball, evasiveness, and ad hominem? You haven't even admitted that your theory that we are 100% clean is at least QUESTIONABLE. I mean, why does such a person continue to sin? And even if you have an explanation for it, intellectual honesty would seemingly admit that the position is at least PROBLEMMATICAL.

If you haven't even demonstrated THAT modicum of transparency, why should I continue with more examples of logical contradictions? Why bother?

Progressive Sanctification:

“...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

Other sentence examples:

Let us fix this old house from all imperfections and problems, perfecting this renovation to the best of our ability.

I will work on this art project again, and get rid of all unoriginality, and unprofessionalism, perfecting it to the best of my efforts, passion, and talent.

So when Scripture says, “perfecting holiness” it does not sound like an overnight thing or an instant quick process. For if I replace the verse with similar examples, I get the impression of a process or longer event, and not something that is quick.

The poster in the OP says we are clean right away. This may be true in regards to Justification, or in being saved by God's grace (i.e. being forgiven of past sins), but this is not true in regards to Sanctification. For Scripture tells me, “let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1). I just read this verse and believe it plainly. I know that this cannot be something that is quick by what it says. Granted, I am not saying that there may not be exceptions to this rule. Surely Enoch, Job, and the 144,000 may be exceptions on this truth in Scripture. But not everyone is an Enoch, or Job. We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Most Christians I talk with never give me the impression that we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. They teach the exact opposite of what many verses say in their own Bible. Then again, I am not surprised. As I said before, I believe we are living in the last days.

RickReads said:

I`m here to talk about scriptures. I`m tired of your philosophy class leftovers.

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If you only had an inkling of the degree of irony in your statement. For at least 1800 years, the official mainstream definition of of God has been DDS (Doctrine of Divine Simplicity), rooted entirely in Greek philosophy and wildly at odds with the biblical data. That's exactly the sort of ideology that I am reacting against on many of my threads, and many of my posts.

How do theologians justify the huge chasm between the biblical God and THEIR God? Simple. They claim that the God of the Scriptures is merely an anthropomorphism accomodated to our finite minds. If you REALLY want to know how to define God, they maintain, look to Greek philosophers such as Plato!!!

JAL said:

If you only had an inkling of the degree of irony in your statement. For at least 1800 years, the official mainstream definition of of God has been DDS (Doctrine of Divine Simplicity), rooted entirely in Greek philosophy and wildly at odds with the biblical data. That's exactly the sort of ideology that I am reacting against on many of my threads, and many of my posts.

How do theologians justify the huge chasm between the biblical God and THEIR God? Simple. They claim that the God of the Scriptures is merely an anthropomorphism accomodated to our finite minds. If you REALLY want to know how to define God, they maintain, look to Greek philosophers such as Plato!!!

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Can you update me on this discussion is a nutshell ?

How are you distinguishing the God of Scripture from the Trinity or are you ?

Or is it that the God of the Bible is really not Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent ?

Is it the Attributes of God that you dispute or that God is a Trinity ?

RickReads said:

Don`t get him started again

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I just want to hear his position is all not necessarily start a debate

RickReads said:

He`s put up about 30 posts this am. Quoted one scripture.

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hence the philosophy

RickReads said:

Post#302

He said I couldn`t find trinity in the Bible so I gave him 1 John 5:7. He didn`t like that.

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Its called a strawman a fallacious argument he is making and easy to dismantle.

Good verse BTW.

If he doesn't like the KJV then I will have him pick his poison( I mean version) and use it against them to prove the Trinity.

I do that with the JW's and use their own corrupt bible translation to prove the Deity of Christ .

They always come back knocking with another " elder" and finally do not come back after they see I get to direct the conversation and ask the questions

They are use to always asking all the questions like many do here but when the shoe is on the other foot they get frustrated because they have lost control of the argument.

RickReads said:

What About Progressive Sanctification?

I don`t really believe in it.

Tell me why you do.

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Is both possible??

note: I was never raised in a church. I don't know what sanctification is nor do I know whether it happens over time or in an instant, or, both - a gradual process culminating in a snap change ??!!??

Some want to reject Progressive Sanctification as taught in the Bible because they want to justify a sin and still be saved type belief.

Others reject Progressive Sanctification because they see it as a back door to sin.

But the Bible teaches Progressive Sanctification clearly in 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Philippians 1:6.
However, many do not want to just read and believe their Bible plainly. So these verses go either ignored or they are changed to fit their belief that they want to be true.

Progressive Sanctification is not a justification to say that one will always sin in this life while they slowly conform to Christ, but in reality they never really truly conform to Him; Neither is Progressive Sanctification a back door to sin. Progressive Sanctification is supposed to first be putting away mortal sin out one's early walk with the Lord, and then it progresses to maturing in Christ, and in loving God, and others more (by one's actions).

1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous. Many again will reject these words in Scripture because they prefer their sin and still be saved doctrine that they learned in the church. Many will say works salvation, but they fail to realize that they are promoting sin based version of salvation. For it is treason to be disloyal to one's king; And Jesus is the king of kings and Lord of Lord's.

Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says any soul that does not hear that prophet (i.e. JESUS), they shall be destroyed from among the people. Also see Matthew 7:26-27. Many Christians today may be ignorant of what Jesus taught, but He commanded us to do many things. Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say? (See: Luke 6:46). In other words, a person is not really believing in Jesus if they are not obeying Him.

Right, baptism is not a salvation issue. Baptism is not done so as to put away sin, but it merely is an answer of having an already good (or clean) conscience towards God. This is why not all sin is the same. There are mortal sins, and non-mortal sins. 1 John 5:16-17 talks about how there is a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death.

But Jesus and His followers did list certain sins that can keep us out of God's kingdom (See: Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:10) (1 John 3:15) (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (See: Luke 10:25-28). Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22). Note: The way Jesus desires us to love Him is by keeping His commandments (John 14:15).