How to read Revelation with a post 70AD authorship view

KingFisher97 · Nov 11, 2020

After reviewing the evidence, I believe I am sold that Revelation was written by John post 70AD. However, with this in mind, I find it hard to read the book now as so much of the book I previously read as the coming destruction of the temple, the persecution of the church, etc. How does one go about understanding the prophecies of the judgement of Israel and the judgements of Revelation if the destruction of the temple and the height of Christian persecution has already passed (since this was written post Nero)?

Tree of Life · Nov 11, 2020

I think John was writing Revelation in the 90s. You're right, Revelation is not primarily about the pending destruction of Jerusalem as many preterists maintain. So what is it about? I am convinced that Revelation is best understood as being an apocalyptic look at the entire church age. It's about the time between Jesus' establishing the church at his first coming and Jesus' return. Revelation sketches broad patterns that we can expect to experience as the church militant. Revelation is divided into seven sections which each describe the church age from a different angle, each culminating in the return of Jesus. Jesus returns in the book of Revelation seven times! Final judgment is described in seven different ways.

KingFisher97 · Nov 11, 2020

Tree of Life said:
I think John was writing Revelation in the 90s. You're right, Revelation is not primarily about the pending destruction of Jerusalem as many preterists maintain. So what is it about? I am convinced that Revelation is best understood as being an apocalyptic look at the entire church age. It's about the time between Jesus' establishing the church at his first coming and Jesus' return. Revelation sketches broad patterns that we can expect to experience as the church militant. Revelation is divided into seven sections which each describe the church age from a different angle, each culminating in the return of Jesus. Jesus returns in the book of Revelation seven times! Final judgment is described in seven different ways.

Do you have any recommended reads for this view of Revelation?

HTacianas · Nov 11, 2020

KingFisher97 said:
After reviewing the evidence, I believe I am sold that Revelation was written by John post 70AD. However, with this in mind, I find it hard to read the book now as so much of the book I previously read as the coming destruction of the temple, the persecution of the church, etc. How does one go about understanding the prophecies of the judgement of Israel and the judgements of Revelation if the destruction of the temple and the height of Christian persecution has already passed (since this was written post Nero)?

Start at the beginning of the book:

Rev 1:19 “Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this..."

The writer is told to write "the things which you have seen", and "the things which are", and then "the things which will take place after this". Sort through it. What things had the writer seen, i.e., the things that had already passed? What was occurring at the time? What things were to come later?

It isn't a case of either/or, it is all of it together.

KingFisher97 · Nov 11, 2020

HTacianas said:
Start at the beginning of the book:

Rev 1:19 “Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this..."

The writer is told to write "the things which you have seen", and "the things which are", and then "the things which will take place after this". Sort through it. What things had the writer seen, i.e., the things that had already passed? What was occurring at the time? What things were to come later?

It isn't a case of either/or, it is all of it together.

You’re totally right! I find it amazing yet and divinely joyous that even after read through a certain book hundred of time the Holy Spirit ALWAYS shows you something that you’ve missed before. Thank you!

Tree of Life · Nov 11, 2020

KingFisher97 said:
Do you have any recommended reads for this view of Revelation?

Yes. Vern Poythress' little book called The Returning King is extremely helpful and fun to read. I also taught a class on the book which can be accessed here for free.

Hazelelponi · Nov 11, 2020

HTacianas said:
Start at the beginning of the book:

Rev 1:19 “Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this..."

The writer is told to write "the things which you have seen", and "the things which are", and then "the things which will take place after this". Sort through it. What things had the writer seen, i.e., the things that had already passed? What was occurring at the time? What things were to come later?

It isn't a case of either/or, it is all of it together.

This is so true. I lean toward an earlier dating and my husband toward a later, but we both read the book exactly the same...

The dates really don't matter, the Book starts at the beginning and ends at the end. It covers everything. Dates just don't factor into how you interpret it.

dqhall · Nov 11, 2020

KingFisher97 said:
After reviewing the evidence, I believe I am sold that Revelation was written by John post 70AD. However, with this in mind, I find it hard to read the book now as so much of the book I previously read as the coming destruction of the temple, the persecution of the church, etc. How does one go about understanding the prophecies of the judgement of Israel and the judgements of Revelation if the destruction of the temple and the height of Christian persecution has already passed (since this was written post Nero)?

Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea and advisor to Constantine, wrote “Ecclesiastical History,” in the early fourth century after Christianity was legalized. Eusebius wrote that John did not write Revelation, but it was written by a forger named Cerinthus.

The Greek Orthodox Church does not use the book of Revelation in their liturgy.

parousia70 · Jan 8, 2021

KingFisher97 said:
After reviewing the evidence, I believe I am sold that Revelation was written by John post 70AD.

could you summarize your 2 or 3 top “bullet points” of the evidence that convinced you to abandon your early date belief?

I hold the early date, as do most published scholars, and I believe the preponderance of evidence - both internal and external - supports it, so I’m curious what led you to the early date initially and then what lead you to switch to the late date?

Davy · Mar 25, 2021

KingFisher97 said:
After reviewing the evidence, I believe I am sold that Revelation was written by John post 70AD. However, with this in mind, I find it hard to read the book now as so much of the book I previously read as the coming destruction of the temple, the persecution of the church, etc. How does one go about understanding the prophecies of the judgement of Israel and the judgements of Revelation if the destruction of the temple and the height of Christian persecution has already passed (since this was written post Nero)?

Looks to me like you're still viewing Revelation through a certain lens created by men.

The confusion many have in study of Revelation is with trying to make its events fit in the order they are written. Lord Jesus actually gave us the key to the order in His Olivet discourse. He gave seven main Signs in His Olivet discourse which are the Seals of Revelation 6. The Seals, Trumpets, and Vials in Revelation are actually about those same 7 Signs in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. The signs shown on the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial reveal the day of His coming. But what most interpret instead is that all the Seals happen first, then all the Trumpets happen next, and then all the Vials all happen last.

Nova2216 · Mar 26, 2021

KingFisher97 said:
After reviewing the evidence, I believe I am sold that Revelation was written by John post 70AD. However, with this in mind, I find it hard to read the book now as so much of the book I previously read as the coming destruction of the temple, the persecution of the church, etc. How does one go about understanding the prophecies of the judgement of Israel and the judgements of Revelation if the destruction of the temple and the height of Christian persecution has already passed (since this was written post Nero)?

You are on the right track. Notice also (Luke 16:16)

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

The mind of God was delivered through the apostles to men in the first century.

One can read the Bible and learn of God and his ways.

All God wanted men to know was delivered in the first century

The above information is true. So why do preachers continually say God spoke to them directly and gave them MORE REVELATION TODAY.

Davy · Mar 31, 2021

Nova2216 said:
One can read the Bible and learn of God and his ways.

All God wanted men to know was delivered in the first century

@KingFisher97 , God did not finish giving His servants all He wanted men to know in the 1st century. God's Word is called 'The Living Word' for a reason. It's because of how God's Word contains prophecy that God only opens up to our understanding according to His time schedule. He showed this fact in the Book of Daniel when He showed Daniel prophecy for the end of this world, and then told Daniel to seal it up for the end. Now in our times, very close to the end, those prophecies God gave Daniel can now easily be understood.

But guess what? These same men that believe God has already revealed everything, don't have a clue about those prophecies in the Book of Daniel for the end which align with Christ's Revelation, simply because their traditions prevent them from seeing it. Man's system of Preterism is probably one of the darkest 'dead' philosophies in the seminaries, as it treats even most of Revelation as past history. And the Full Preterist movement doesn't even believe in Jesus' future return! And running a close 2nd is men's traditions of Historicism, which much like Preterism puts most of God's Word in a past history type of context, denying prophecies that are clearly still future.

Lord Jesus said to beware of the leaven doctrines of men. And that means taking commentaries with a grain of salt also, because one can find a Bible commentary based on all the different denominations, and they often disagree with each other. Only our Heavenly Father through His Son by The Holy Spirit can give us the only true interpretation of His Word. The Holy Spirit gave it through men, and via The Holy Spirit is how it must be understood.

Nova2216 · Apr 2, 2021

Davy said:
@KingFisher97 , God did not finish giving His servants all He wanted men to know in the 1st century. God's Word is called 'The Living Word' for a reason. It's because of how God's Word contains prophecy that God only opens up to our understanding according to His time schedule. He showed this fact in the Book of Daniel when He showed Daniel prophecy for the end of this world, and then told Daniel to seal it up for the end. Now in our times, very close to the end, those prophecies God gave Daniel can now easily be understood.

But guess what? These same men that believe God has already revealed everything, don't have a clue about those prophecies in the Book of Daniel for the end which align with Christ's Revelation, simply because their traditions prevent them from seeing it. Man's system of Preterism is probably one of the darkest 'dead' philosophies in the seminaries, as it treats even most of Revelation as past history. And the Full Preterist movement doesn't even believe in Jesus' future return! And running a close 2nd is men's traditions of Historicism, which much like Preterism puts most of God's Word in a past history type of context, denying prophecies that are clearly still future.

Lord Jesus said to beware of the leaven doctrines of men. And that means taking commentaries with a grain of salt also, because one can find a Bible commentary based on all the different denominations, and they often disagree with each other. Only our Heavenly Father through His Son by The Holy Spirit can give us the only true interpretation of His Word. The Holy Spirit gave it through men, and via The Holy Spirit is how it must be understood.

Which verses in Daniel are you referring too?

Are you aware of (Luke 16:16)?

Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Thanks

Davy · Apr 3, 2021

Nova2216 said:
Which verses in Daniel are you referring too?

Are you aware of (Luke 16:16)?

Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Thanks

Which Scriptures in Revelation linked to the Book of Daniel do you THINK... Preterists and Historicists deny?

Nova2216 · Apr 3, 2021

Davy said:
Which Scriptures in Revelation linked to the Book of Daniel do you THINK... Preterists and Historicists deny?

Usually people give an answer to a question.

1. Are you aware of (Luke 16:16)?

2. Which verses in Daniel are you referring too?

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Davy · Apr 3, 2021

Nova2216 said:
Usually people give an answer to a question.

1. Are you aware of (Luke 16:16)?

2. Which verses in Daniel are you referring too?

Lord Jesus often answered with a question, so I like His example. Answering my question will answer yours.

Nova2216 · Apr 5, 2021

Davy said:
Lord Jesus often answered with a question, so I like His example. Answering my question will answer yours.

How can i understand your position if you will not answer my question?

And you are not the Lord.

Davy · Apr 5, 2021

Nova2216 said:
How can understand your position if you will not answer my question?

And you are not the Lord.

So one has to be Christ to answer a question with a question??? How does that make sense?

You obviously didn't read my post that explained the matter involving your question, so this kind of reply is the best you're gonna' get.

Nova2216 · Apr 5, 2021

Davy said:
So one has to be Christ to answer a question with a question??? How does that make sense?

You obviously didn't read my post that explained the matter involving your question, so this kind of reply is the best you're gonna' get.

Sir, what does (Luke 16:16) teach us?

Davy · Apr 8, 2021

Nova2216 said:
Sir, what does (Luke 16:16) teach us?

Sorry, no time for games.

How to read Revelation with a post 70AD authorship view

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