What About Progressive Sanctification?
- Thread starter RickReads
- Start date
John 6:37-40
"All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
John 10:14-1
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
John 10:27-29
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Rom 8:29-39
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Just as it is written,
"For Thy sake we are being put to death all day long;
We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8 which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
hope this helps !!!
Upvote
0
- Sep 27, 2020
- 3,433
- 1,068
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Divorced
Did you mean to ask me, or are you now telling me what I believe, don't believe, don`t know etc?
I lose interest when people start answering their own questions because it tells me they don`t want to have a real dialogue.
Upvote
0
Do personal pronouns mean anything ? You,Us, We,Our, His, Many, Her,His etc......
Notice the absence of them and they in the passages below.
Matthew 1:21
"And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins." NASB
Matthew 26:28-29
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. NASB
Matthew 20:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many. " NASB
Hebrews 9:28
so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. NASB
Ephesians 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her; 26 that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless. NASB
John 10:14-15
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. NASB
Romans 5:8-10
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. NASB
Romans 8:28-39
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Just as it is written,
"For Thy sake we are being put to death all day long ;
We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered. "
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. NASB
2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. NASB
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8 which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. NASB
Colossians 2:13-15
And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. NASB
Titus 2:13-14
Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. NASB
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. NASB
hope this helps !!!
Notice the absence of them and they in the passages below.
Matthew 1:21
"And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins." NASB
Matthew 26:28-29
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. NASB
Matthew 20:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many. " NASB
Hebrews 9:28
so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. NASB
Ephesians 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her; 26 that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless. NASB
John 10:14-15
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. NASB
Romans 5:8-10
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. NASB
Romans 8:28-39
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Just as it is written,
"For Thy sake we are being put to death all day long ;
We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered. "
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. NASB
2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. NASB
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8 which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. NASB
Colossians 2:13-15
And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. NASB
Titus 2:13-14
Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. NASB
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. NASB
hope this helps !!!
Upvote
0
- Aug 11, 2017
- 22,518
- 7,351
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
John 6:37-40 Like I said the Greek word translated to “comes or cometh” is only used in the present and imperfect tense. So this means only those who presently and continuously come to Him He will not cast out. Furthermore the Greek word translated to “will” in verse 40 doesn’t only mean something God has declared to be true but can also mean something God desires. The same word is used in 1 Timothy 2:4.
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4 KJV
Unless your a universalist obviously not all men will be saved. The NASB actually has a more accurate translation.
“This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4 NASB
This is the same Greek word used in John 6:40 which is saying that God desires that Jesus would lose nothing but raise them up on the last day. God desires this for everyone but unfortunately not everyone chooses it.
John 10:27-29 His sheep hear Him and they follow. He didn’t say His sheep heard Him and followed. Again this is implying a continuous action not a one time profession of faith. No one can snatch them out of The Father’s hand. This means no third person can take away anyone’s salvation. It doesn’t mean no one can turn away from God or that God will not cast anyone away. John 15:2 Jesus specifically said The Father cuts off every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit. He also said in John 15:6 anyone who does not abide/remain in Me is CAST AWAY to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. Furthermore He even said to His 11 faithful apostles in verse 7 IF you abide in Me you may ask whatever you wish and it will be granted to you. Notice the word IF indicating and uncertainty of salvation and also a condition for it implying that even His 11 faithful apostles were capable of failing to abide/remain in Him and thus being cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. If they were not capable of failing to remain in Christ then the word if would’ve been replaced by the word since or because. Jesus chose the word IF for a reason.
Romans 8:29-39 Amen those whom He foreknew He predestined. The word predestined means to preordain or to choose beforehand. Peter says it another way.
“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”
1 Peter 1:1-2 NASB
God chose these people according His foreknowledge of who would choose to abide in Christ and endure to the end. He didn’t determine their fate.
I’ll address Ephesians in a few minutes I’m at work.
Upvote
0
- Aug 11, 2017
- 22,518
- 7,351
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Galatians 5:4 were these people not called by God? How can they be severed from Christ unless they have been first joined to Christ BY THE FATHER. No one comes to Christ unless The Father draws him. These people were drawn to Christ by The Father and were severed from Christ by The Father. They have fallen from grace. No one can fall from grace unless The Father has bestowed grace upon them. So you have to reach a doctrine that allows for all the scriptures to be true not bits and pieces. What your teaching makes Paul’s statement to Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:12 impossible. It makes Jesus’ statement in John 15:2 and John 15:6 impossible. Your theology does not line up with ALL SCRIPTURE.
Upvote
0
- Jan 2, 2006
- 6,762
- 1,269
- 69
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
I do not disagree with anything you have said. But I also know that Jesus will forgive 70X7 in a day! He will not break a bruised reed nor quench a smoking flax. The key is a sinful life. It is living in habitual unrepentant sin. I deo not think you will find many followers of Jesus that wish to live in sin, but yet we all have those sins that easily beset us (weaknesses we struggle with). 1 John 1:9 is the key for a believer.
1 John 1:9
King James Version
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1. If WE confess (acknowledge when we sin that it is sin)
2. HE forgives our sins
3. HE cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
It is a legalistic spirit that seeks to impose time limits upon Gods cleansing process. Only god truly knows the heart of an individual snared in sin. We cannot so we should not judge the level of their sincerity in acknowledging their sin before God.
Upvote
0
- Jan 2, 2006
- 6,762
- 1,269
- 69
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
No! We have been set free to live a life that is growing in grace and the knowledge of Jesus. which could not happen until we were born again.
But the answer you won't like is that every sin a believer has committed, does commit, and will commit has already all been paid for at the cross!
If one goes to teh lake of fire- it is not because they are a sinner. It is because they rejected the only acceptable payment for their sin God accepts- trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus as the full price for all their sin.
You do not understand the depth of what happens when one becomes a follower of Jesus Christ! That is why you think the way you responded.
This is the operative key of a believer life:
Romans 5:
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6
King James Version
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Upvote
0
- Sep 27, 2020
- 3,433
- 1,068
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Divorced
This is another case of both answers being right. Common in scripture.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,502
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Progressive Sanctification:
#1. 2 Corinthians 7:1 KJB
“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”
#2. Philippians 1:6 KJB
“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”
Context:
“And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;” (Philippians 1:9) (KJB).
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13) (KJB).
“That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15) (KJB).
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13) (KJB).
“That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15) (KJB).
#3. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 KJB (Part 1)
“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17 KJB (Part 2)
“Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.”
#4. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJB
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
#5. 1 John 3:3 KJB
“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”
Context:
“For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).
#6. Ephesians 5:25-27 KJB
“...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
Context:
“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” (John 17:17-19).
“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).
“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).
#7. Hebrews 13:20-21 KJB
“Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen”
#8. Colossians 4:12 KJB
“Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.”
#9. 1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 KJB
“And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.”
#10 Revelation 3:2 KJB
“Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.”
#11. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJB
“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
#12. Hebrews 12:14 KJB
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord”
#13. Titus 2:14 KJB
“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
#14. 1 John 2:5 KJB
“But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.”
#15. James 1:21 KJB
“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.”
#16. 2 Timothy 2:21 KJB
“If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
#17. 1 Peter 1:16 KJB
"...Be ye holy; for I am holy."
Note: Obviously a new believer or convert is not holy in conduct like God when they first believe in the Lord vs. after being in service to Him for many years. God says in His Word be ye holy, for I am holy. So our call to holiness is based on being like He is. This is not an overngiht process, but it takes time for believers to mature, and grow in the Word as they put it forth into action. Jesus basically says, a disciple is not above his master, but everyone who is perfect will be like Him (See: Luke 6:40). David essentially said he hid God's Word in his heart so that he may not sin against God (See: Psalms 119:11). Yet, David committed such sins of adultery and murder. So David had to learn to put God's Word on the inside of himself so as to not sin against God. This plays into our holy walk with God that is progressive. Most believers are not changed to be super holy men who make no mistakes overnight the moment they are first saved. It takes time to grow and mature in their holy walk with God. Peter, and the other apostles made mistakes early in their walk with God. But do you think they remained that way? Surely not. They had grown.
Even the Parable of the Talents teaches us that there are degrees of fruitfulness by various servants. They were not equal in being profitable for the Lord.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Sep 27, 2020
- 3,433
- 1,068
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Divorced
Nothing there says "progressive" and anytime sanctification is mentioned it is something that God is doing, not you. The works are the result of sanctification not the producers of it. I think you are trusting in works for your salvation.
It`s the same argument all over again.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,502
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
If you believe you are saved by God's grace or by believing in Jesus, you also must believe that you are saved by work, too (See: John 6:29).
As for the list of verses, I highly doubt you read all those verses that quickly. It appears that you are just replying without really reading what those verses have to say. Then again, I am not surprised. This is how you dealt with my reply with Scripture to you before. But I know that God's Word will not return void. I know that what I said with His Word will reach somebody else.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,502
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Obviously a new believer or convert is not holy in conduct like God when they first believe in the Lord vs. after being in service to Him for many years. God says in His Word be ye holy, for I am holy. So our call to holiness is based on being like He is. This is not an overngiht process, but it takes time for believers to mature, and grow in the Word as they put it forth into action. Jesus basically says, a disciple is not above his master, but everyone who is perfect will be like Him (See: Luke 6:40). David essentially said he hid God's Word in his heart so that he may not sin against God (See: Psalms 119:11). Yet, David committed such sins of adultery and murder. So David had to learn to put God's Word on the inside of himself so as to not sin against God. This plays into our holy walk with God that is progressive. Most believers are not changed to be super holy men who make no mistakes overnight the moment they are first saved. It takes time to grow and mature in their holy walk with God. Peter, and the other apostles made mistakes early in their walk with God. But do you think they remained that way? Surely not. They had grown.
Even the Parable of the Talents teaches us that there are degrees of fruitfulness by various servants. They were not equal in being profitable for the Lord. One's fruitfulness determines what level of holiness they have achieved with the Lord.
Even the Parable of the Talents teaches us that there are degrees of fruitfulness by various servants. They were not equal in being profitable for the Lord. One's fruitfulness determines what level of holiness they have achieved with the Lord.
Upvote
0
- Sep 27, 2020
- 3,433
- 1,068
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Divorced
More false accusations. FYI, I type slow but I read fast and I read all your verses. They did nothing for your argument.
As for John 6:29, it says the "work" is to believe. Your statement saying that it validates works for salvation is grossly erroneous. But at least you have finally admitted that you are believing in works for your salvation.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Aug 11, 2017
- 22,518
- 7,351
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Ahh. I see. So what happens if we do kill, rape, and steal and do all sorts of evil? Is such a person abiding in Christ? Does Jesus forgive the sins of those who don’t abide in Him? In order to receive forgiveness of our sins we must repent and turn back to Christ. We must hear and follow to be His sheep.
Upvote
0
- Aug 11, 2017
- 22,518
- 7,351
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Is English a second language for you? Because you don’t seem to understand it very well.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,502
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Being on fire is different from growing in maturity as we learn more about God's Word. One can be on fire, but if they are not informed properly of how to act upon God's Word, they are like a canon from the colonial days ready to fire with no pin point accuracy. Anyways, what I meant is that Progressive Sanctification is obvious from reading the Scriptures. The verses I have shown makes this fact obvious.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,502
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Believers are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but that does not mean they cannot be disqualified later by sin and or refusing to enter the Sanctification Process.
Anyways, my point is that you are saved by the “Work of Belief in the Son.” So there is a form of “Works Salvation” that even you must hold to. So you cannot condemn “Works Salvation” because you believe in a form of it yourself based upon John 6:29. This means that Paul was not referring to John 6:29 in Ephesians 2:8-9. So then we have to ask the questions, “What kind of works was Paul condemning in Ephesians 2:9” "What kind of works was Paul praising or recommending in Ephesians 2:10?”
Hint: Ephesians 2:9, and Ephesians 2:10 are not referring to the same kind of work.
Also, if one is not saved by doing nothing for the Lord, then one is saved even if they refuse to preach the gospel their whole lives, and one is saved even while they step over the poor as they beg for help, and one is saved by showing favor to the rich brethren, while ignoring the poor brethren. They can refuse to love God and to worship Him. They can refuse to read the Bible, and to pray. They can be mean as a snake, and sin and still go to Heaven all because they have a belief alone on Jesus. But is that what the Bible teaches? Surely not.
In fact, a person is going to do works regardless. One will do either good works, or one will do evil works. Jesus basically told us you will know a good tree vs. a bad tree by it's fruit. James says that faith without works is dead. So can a dead faith save anyone? Surely not. It's why Paul refers to the “work of faith” two times. Why? Because the work of faith is a part of the faith.
Side Note:
Oh, and believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus Christ.
It is believing in everything He taught, said, and did, too. For Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says that every soul that does not hear that prophet (JESUS) shall be destroyed from among the people. Matthew 7:26-27 says that everyone who does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Jesus told us to do things that would qualify as good works. If we are not doing what He says, we are only loyal to our own selves and our sin, and not to the Lord Jesus Christ. So choose this day in whom you will serve. Will you choose yourself, or the Lord Jesus Christ?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
