Why even as Christians? (Pain)

mlepfitjw · Nov 9, 2020

Hello you, thank you for stopping by.

Whether a person is a Christian living by the flesh, suffering from guilt, shame, and sin in the flesh, or a Christian living by the spirit, suffering from the pain from not being for the most part being alone in this world which doesn't seem to care much about God at all.

When you read the word of God the flesh tends to die because of the over throwing by the spirit.

There is peace and comfort by the spirit but there is still pain; be it fleshly guilt and shame, or for the alienation of feeling alone not having one that you can really relate to.

How can do you deal with this pain? Where do you take it? Is there scripture that can help?

Gregory Thompson · Nov 9, 2020

Our inner person was born again, we were not given the new bodies - so suffering is inevitable.

dealing with suffering whether it comes from my body or someone else's tends to come down to trusting God for assistance.

Pavel Mosko · Nov 9, 2020

Agallagher said:
How can do you deal with this pain? Where do you take it? Is there scripture that can help?

Well when it comes to my own personal woes these resources have really helped me. After rereading the OP, I'm not sure if that is what you are getting at but here ya go.

1) I got lots of issues of falling short of what I wanted as far as a career. This article that was made into a speech by William Lane Craig helped me a lot. I recommend it if you got similar issues.

What is the Meaning of Failure for the Christian? | Reasonable Faith

2) Finding the strength to go on sermon. This is probably the best sermon I have heard for hard times. Their is lots of good stuff here, and it is a very moving presentation etc. I really recommend it for any Christian having tough times, or struggling.

In theology, especially Greek Orthodox and classical there is a term called Kenosis which refers to positive affect that suffering can have for us as Christians.

Kenosis (from the Greek κένωσις: meaning "emptying") is an ancient Greece|ancient Greek]] term found primarily in Christian writings, such as the Epistle to the Philippians 2:7, where Jesus is described as having "...emptied himself..." (NRSV) to become a servant of humankind. This paradoxical idea of God's "emptying" of Himself to become full of love has intrigued the curiosity of countless theologians, and in the process shaped the development of Christian theology and ethics. Christians have interpreted kenosis as meaning Jesus' sublime humility during the incarnation and complete sacrifice for all, which is simultaneously a call for Christians to be similarly humble and subservient to others.

Kenosis - New World Encyclopedia

Sabertooth · Nov 9, 2020

I was just reviewing the letter/book 1 Peter. It speaks to the OP at length.

Carl Emerson · Nov 10, 2020

Agallagher said:
Hello you, thank you for stopping by.

Whether a person is a Christian living by the flesh, suffering from guilt, shame, and sin in the flesh, or a Christian living by the spirit, suffering from the pain from not being for the most part being alone in this world which doesn't seem to care much about God at all.

When you read the word of God the flesh tends to die because of the over throwing by the spirit.

There is peace and comfort by the spirit but there is still pain; be it fleshly guilt and shame, or for the alienation of feeling alone not having one that you can really relate to.

How can do you deal with this pain? Where do you take it? Is there scripture that can help?

Romans 8:

21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.…

bèlla · Nov 10, 2020

There's a difference between what we feel, what we're told, and what we believe. The source that feeds each aspect is the tipping point. If it's true and wholesome the outcome will be positive. If its negative or rooted in fear and condemnation the result follows suit.

No one is born in pain. In shame. With guilt. Or feeling alone. They're learned states based on things we've heard, said, or experienced. It's our responsibility to distinguish truth from error.

Everything you feel, believe, and hear isn't true or edifying. You must prune away the lies and replace them with the truth. Not man's idea of truth. But God's.

Your heart, mind, and spirit are like a sponge. They absorb everything you consume. They don't distinguish truth from error. That's your job. Follow the guideline you've received and your condition will change.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. —Philippians 4:8

You were never told to dwell on your:

Problems
Shortcomings
Mistakes
Disappointments
Fears
Negative experiences

Or how the world sees you. You've chosen to do so.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Aussie Pete · Nov 10, 2020

Agallagher said:
Hello you, thank you for stopping by.

Whether a person is a Christian living by the flesh, suffering from guilt, shame, and sin in the flesh, or a Christian living by the spirit, suffering from the pain from not being for the most part being alone in this world which doesn't seem to care much about God at all.

When you read the word of God the flesh tends to die because of the over throwing by the spirit.

There is peace and comfort by the spirit but there is still pain; be it fleshly guilt and shame, or for the alienation of feeling alone not having one that you can really relate to.

How can do you deal with this pain? Where do you take it? Is there scripture that can help?

The truth will set you free.
1. The blood of Christ removes all confessed sin. There is no shame. God forgets our sin, we should too. (Hebrews 10:17)
2. You are never alone. God has promised never to leave us forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)
3. Expect nothing from the world. It is God's enemy.

Tolworth John · Nov 10, 2020

Agallagher said:
There is peace and comfort by the spirit but there is still pain; be it fleshly guilt and shame, or for the alienation of feeling alone not having one that you can really relate to

You are talking about two separate things.

Our guilt and shame over sin has been dealt with by Jesus, if we are prepared to let go of it.

Loneliness is another issue and should not be mixed with feelings of guilt etc.

Jesus is YHWH · Nov 10, 2020

John 15:20
Remember the word that I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well.

Matthew 5:10-12
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven…

Romans 5:2-5
And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

Romans 8:28-29
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

2 Corinthians 4:9
persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed.

2 Timothy 3:12
Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

1 Peter 4:12-14
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you

James 1:2-4
Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

hope this helps !!!

mlepfitjw · Nov 10, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Our inner person was born again, we were not given the new bodies - so suffering is inevitable.

dealing with suffering whether it comes from my body or someone else's tends to come down to trusting God for assistance.

Michael, you are right we should cling on to the Lord Yeshua Christ robes, for guidance building up our faith, from the word, and trust and wait on his timing and remind ourselves about how nothing can separate us from Gods love. We still suffer regardless though, be it some manner or another.

Pavel Mosko said:
Well when it comes to my own personal woes these resources have really helped me. After rereading the OP, I'm not sure if that is what you are getting at but here ya go.

1) I got lots of issues of falling short of what I wanted as far as a career. This article that was made into a speech by William Lane Craig helped me a lot. I recommend it if you got similar issues.

What is the Meaning of Failure for the Christian? | Reasonable Faith

2) Finding the strength to go on sermon. This is probably the best sermon I have heard for hard times. Their is lots of good stuff here, and it is a very moving presentation etc. I really recommend it for any Christian having tough times, or struggling.

In theology, especially Greek Orthodox and classical there is a term called Kenosis which refers to positive affect that suffering can have for us as Christians.

Kenosis (from the Greek κένωσις: meaning "emptying") is an ancient Greece|ancient Greek]] term found primarily in Christian writings, such as the Epistle to the Philippians 2:7, where Jesus is described as having "...emptied himself..." (NRSV) to become a servant of humankind. This paradoxical idea of God's "emptying" of Himself to become full of love has intrigued the curiosity of countless theologians, and in the process shaped the development of Christian theology and ethics. Christians have interpreted kenosis as meaning Jesus' sublime humility during the incarnation and complete sacrifice for all, which is simultaneously a call for Christians to be similarly humble and subservient to others.

Kenosis - New World Encyclopedia

Pavel, watched that video. That man had very wise words to say, thank you for sharing. I believe he made some good points about how we need to look an cling on to God, as our portion, build our faith from the word, and trust in Him even though still we will suffer in some form or fashion. Thank you again.

Sabertooth said:
I was just reviewing the letter/book 1 Peter. It speaks to the OP at length.

Saber, thank you for the mention!

Carl Emerson said:
Romans 8:

21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.…

Carl, thank you for the scripture this shares that suffering we have as we go through this world sometimes that groaning inwardly. We must take it one day at time.

bèlla said:
There's a difference between what we feel, what we're told, and what we believe. The source that feeds each aspect is the tipping point. If it's true and wholesome the outcome will be positive. If its negative or rooted in fear and condemnation the result follows suit.

No one is born in pain. In shame. With guilt. Or feeling alone. They're learned states based on things we've heard, said, or experienced. It's our responsibility to distinguish truth from error.

Everything you feel, believe, and hear isn't true or edifying. You must prune away the lies and replace them with the truth. Not man's idea of truth. But God's.

Your heart, mind, and spirit are like a sponge. They absorb everything you consume. They don't distinguish truth from error. That's your job. Follow the guideline you've received and your condition will change.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. —Philippians 4:8

You were never told to dwell on your:

Problems

Shortcomings

Mistakes

Disappointments

Fears

Negative experiences

Or how the world sees you. You've chosen to do so.

Yours in His Service,

~bella
View attachment 288467

Bella, as always you have wise words to share here and are very informative, it helpful to know that sometimes what the world gives us, we take and apply it to ourselves when instead we should take the words of God and what he has said about us and instead cling on to those good, and honorable things to think on.

Aussie Pete said:
The truth will set you free.
1. The blood of Christ removes all confessed sin. There is no shame. God forgets our sin, we should too. (Hebrews 10:17)
2. You are never alone. God has promised never to leave us forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)
3. Expect nothing from the world. It is God's enemy.

Aussie, yes, you are right! The truth will set us free. Though we still are going to suffer in some way or another.

Tolworth John said:
You are talking about two separate things.

Our guilt and shame over sin has been dealt with by Jesus, if we are prepared to let go of it.

Loneliness is another issue and should not be mixed with feelings of guilt etc.

Tolworth, hopefully some point and message had gotten across out there to some of the people. Thank you for pointing that out.

Jesus is YHWH said:
John 15:20
Remember the word that I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well.

Matthew 5:10-12
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven…

Romans 5:2-5
And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

Romans 8:28-29
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

2 Corinthians 4:9
persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed.

2 Timothy 3:12
Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

1 Peter 4:12-14
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you

James 1:2-4
Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

hope this helps !!!

YWHW, thank you for the good word.

bèlla · Nov 10, 2020

Agallagher said:
Bella, as always you have wise words to share here and are very informative, it helpful to know that sometimes what the world gives us, we take and apply it to ourselves when instead we should take the words of God and what he has said about us and instead cling on to those good, and honorable things to think on.

Thank you.

You can’t overcome the world’s impressions until you recognize the internal messages it echoes. They’re the ones that stick and hurt the most. You need to understand the tape playing in your head and the story it feeds.

Choose a period when you’re alone and won’t be disturbed. Remove and silence all distractions. The room should be quiet. Press the record button on your phone or tablet and start talking. Say everything that comes to mind. Unfiltered. Good and bad. Until you run out of things to say. Stop the recording. Listen to it the following day. Make a note of the things you said and give them to God.

The negative remarks are landmines. They’re the places you carry pain and insecurity. When they’re stoked you feel anger, sadness, or judgment. You may become defensive too.

The positive comments are the things you want to hear from others. They’re not necessarily true. You may be working towards them or there already. Reinforcing them is fine if they’re not delusional.

You should be able to craft a story for each with an ‘I am’ statement. That’s the message you’re feeding on.

Observe yourself in the days that follow. What do you respond to most? Now you know the problem.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

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Why even as Christians? (Pain)

mlepfitjw

May you be blessed!

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Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic

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Sabertooth

Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints!

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Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member

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bèlla

❤️

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Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member

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Tolworth John

Well-Known Member

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Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !

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mlepfitjw

May you be blessed!

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bèlla

❤️

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