We Are In The Laodicea Church Age

chad kincham

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Since you take Zechariah 14:4 literally and believe it applies to the time after Christ returns, then please tell me how you interpret the following passage.

Zechariah 14:10 The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. 11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

If this describes how things will be during a future earthly millennial kingdom then why does this say that the land described above will never again be destroyed in light of what these passages say:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

How can the land mentioned in Zech 14:10-11 never be destroyed again when scripture clearly teaches that the entire earth will be burned up, which I would assume you, as a premil, believe happens after Zech 14:10-11 occurs?

The. Bible says one third of the world is burned up.

The earth is never destroyed. Two scriptures say, world without end, amen.

Just as the earth was destroyed by water, but it’s the same world, the earth will de destroyed by fire, and restored.

I’ve looked up scholarship on that, and they agree with my assessment.

Since Jerusalem is where God dwells for all eternity after Jesus returns, obviously Jerusalem is not going to be the parts of the earth that’s burned. Revelation 21.
 
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nolidad

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Happy to examine each of them in detail. Please provide chapter and verse.

Enjoy the studying:

Return to Israel in unbelief
Ez. 20:33-38 Also God forcing Israel into teh new covenant.
Ex. 22:17-22
reGathering from many nations:
Ez. 36:22-24
Is. 11:11-12 ( key phrase- a second time)
Zeph 2:1-2

Jerusalem under Jewish Control:
Dan. (;27
Matt. 24:14
2 Thess. 2:3-4
Rev. 11:1-2

Russian Invasion of Israel with its allies:
Ez. 38:1-6 why th einvasion? Ez. 38:7-9
Gogs reason 38:10-13
Gods reason 38:14-16
Destroying the armies 38:17-23
God sanctified HIs name to Israel Ez. 39:7-8

One world govt.
Dan. 7:23-24
Ten kings:
7:24a
antichrists':
7:24b
2 Thess. 2:1-3

Jesus return to establish a 1000 year kingdom and fulfill promised kingdom to Israel.
Basis for kingdom: New Covenant Jer. 31:31-34
Prophetic develpment:
Is. 29:22-24
Is. 30:18-22
Is. 44:1-5
Is. 45:17
Jer. 24:7
Jer. 50:19-20
Ez. 11:19-20
Ez. 36:25-27
Hosea 1:10-2:1
Hos. 14:4-8
Joel 2:28-32
Micah 7:18-20
Zeph 3:9-13 ( also the promised restoration of Hebrew as a spoken language.)

The promised regathering

Deut. 30:1-10
Is. 11:11-12:6
Is. 27:12-13
Is 43:5-7 (when Israel became a nation again in 1948 they first returned in this exact order.)
Jer. 16:14-15
Jer. 23:3-4
Jer. 23: 7-8
amos 9:14-15
Zeph. 3:18-20
Jer. 31:7-10
Ez. 11:14-18
Ez. 36:24

Let me know when you are ready for more.
 
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chad kincham

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According to my Bible, Satan was cast out, judged, spoiled and bound by Jesus Christ's Earthly Ministry:

Cast out of the third heaven, but is now god of this world, until Jesus returns. 2Corinthians 4:4

Only Christians are not in satans kingdom - the rest of the world is.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:






Acts 26:17-18
To the nations I now send you to open their eyes to turn them from darkness to light and from the power of satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among them who are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Look at the world, try to tell me satan is bound and the nations have turned from darkness to light.

However the scriptures that tell how terrible and evil the world will get in the last days before Jesus returns, are in fact being fulfilled now.

Your preterism is untenable.
 
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Timtofly

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I disagree.
The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that Jesus would come in Judgment within the lifetime of His apostles.
(Matt 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32,Matt 16:28, Luke 9:27,Matt 10:23)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that all things written would be fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
(Luke 21:20-22)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that as it was in Noah's day, So would the coming of the Son of Man be. The wicked would be taken in Judgement, and the rightesous would be "left behind" on earth.
(Matt 24:37-41)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that salvatiion was not complete until Christ Came in Judgment.
(Hebrews 9:28)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that The way to heaven was not opened until the Temple was destroyed.
(Hebrews 9:8)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that on the "new earth" Birth, death, ageing and sinners would continue to exist.(Isaiah 65:17-21, Revelation 21 & 22)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that Christ is an invisible King, He was to come "in His kingdom" and that the coming of His kingdom would be "unobservable"
(1Timothy 1:17, Luke 17:20)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that Christ took the kingdom from the Jews, and gave it to the church at the Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard, who is the holy nation that bears it's fruits.
(Matt 21:43, 1Peter 2:9)

The Bible,and therefore preterism, teaches that the Church is the "Israel of God" and the only heir to the promise of Abraham. (Gal 6:16)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the true inheritance of Abraham is not earthly, but the better country of Heaven. (Hebrews 11:16, 1 Peter 1:4)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, is true and correct.
The Bible does not say preterist one time, you are just adding your private interpretation to God’s Word.
 
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parousia70

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The Bible does not say preterist one time, you are just adding your private interpretation to God’s Word.
Ummm...And the Bible says “futurist”... Where?

Instead of making up a strawman, why don’t you take the Scriptures I quoted and show us why they don’t mean what I contend they do, and give us your Alternate understanding of them?

Seems to me you’re the one adding your own private interpretation to Gods word, while I’m merely accepting it as written.
 
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parousia70

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Enjoy the studying:

Return to Israel in unbelief
Ez. 20:33-38 Also God forcing Israel into teh new covenant.
Ex. 22:17-22
reGathering from many nations:
Ez. 36:22-24
Is. 11:11-12 ( key phrase- a second time)
Zeph 2:1-2

All the prophecies about the dispersion and subsequent return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.

"In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places desolate . . . ye shall be scattered among the countries . . . among the nations whither they shall be carried captives . . . all the house of Israel shall remove and go into captivity . . . I will scatter them among the nations" (Ezekiel ch. 6–12).

This was the Diaspora. . . . And now the re-gathering of the Jews to their own land 70 years later:

"For thus saith the Lord, that after 70 years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you . . . and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations . . . and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive" (Jeremiah. 29: 10-14).

Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews from/to the geographic boundaries of earthly Israel.

Not even ONE.

And even if there were, That a 20th century UN fiat declared the land of Palestine be given to Modern day Multi-ethnic Secularists who purport to be followers of the post-Christian, man made religion of the Babylonian Talmud, does not equate to "God prophetically Bringing the Hebrew people back to Israel" for several requirements are not met.

Here's just a few:
1) The people there are not Hebrews nor are they descended from Hebrews
2) They do not Follow Moses or Practice Biblical Judaism in any way
3) Modern Israel is a Secular Democracy, not a Biblical Theocracy

No matter how much you dress up a Pig to look like a cow, it's Never going to be a cow.

Jerusalem under Jewish Control:
Dan. (;27
Matt. 24:14
2 Thess. 2:3-4
Rev. 11:1-2

If I call myself a Jew and move to palestine, do I qualify as a participant in the fulfillment of any prophesy about the return of Jews to Jerusalem??

Or is there other criteria?

Russian Invasion of Israel with its allies:
Ez. 38:1-6 why th einvasion? Ez. 38:7-9
Gogs reason 38:10-13
Gods reason 38:14-16
Destroying the armies 38:17-23
God sanctified HIs name to Israel Ez. 39:7-8

1st you must Demonstrate your supposition that Gog = Modern Day Russia.
You only have speculation.

One world govt.
Here is the ONLY one world Government prophesied in Scripture:
Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end

antichrists':
7:24b
2 Thess. 2:1-3

None of those passages mention anything about Antichrist(s)
Again, this is you inserting your own private interpretation not found anywhere in scripture.

Jesus return to establish a 1000 year kingdom and fulfill promised kingdom to Israel.
Basis for kingdom: New Covenant Jer. 31:31-34
Prophetic develpment:
Is. 29:22-24
Is. 30:18-22
Is. 44:1-5
Is. 45:17
Jer. 24:7
Jer. 50:19-20
Ez. 11:19-20
Ez. 36:25-27
Hosea 1:10-2:1
Hos. 14:4-8
Joel 2:28-32
Micah 7:18-20
Zeph 3:9-13 ( also the promised restoration of Hebrew as a spoken language.)
The Bible itself proves there is no literal, FUTURE, earthly millennium. The "evidence" is in the apostolic eschatological doctrine that prohibits any view of the "millennium" that portrays it as a future, literal, earthly epoch. A simple examination of the NT epistles shows that there is no future historical "thousand-years" period. We know this with certainty, for the apostles explicitly identified the precise timing of the resurrection, the judgment, and the New Heaven/Earth -- they all occur at the coming of Jesus Christ, thus proving that there is no literal "thousand years" that separates these events out over time.

(1) The resurrection occurs at the coming of Christ (1 Cor 15:23)

(2) The judgment occurs at the coming of Christ (2 Tim 4:1; Rev 11:15-18)

(3) The "New Heavens/Earth" occurs at the coming of Christ -- i.e., the "thief's coming," the "day of the Lord" (2 Pet 3:10/1 Thess 5:2)

These key eschatological events all occur at the precise moment of the coming of Jesus Christ. THEREFORE, as the apostles themselves understood, there is no literal, historic millennium separating them.

The popular millennialist maps separate these three eschatological events by a period of 1000 temporal, earthly years--or, in some cases, 1007 years. The bible doesn't allow it. The bible proves there is no literal earthly "millennium." Once we understand the plain truth of this, we can turn our efforts to understanding the apostolic teaching of the "thousand years" as a typological symbol--one of many in John's highly typological and symbolic vision.

What is it a Typological Symbol of?
The Thousand years is a typological reference to the length of the Davidic Monarchy, from David, the first King in the line, to Christ, the Final, and Completion/Restoration of the Line, which is a period of...

wait for it......

1000 LITERAL years!


The "Thousand years" shows that Christ fulfilled the hopes of the Davidic Monarchy that Christ would fill David's office as King (Luke 1:68-69; Acts 2:30-36; 1 Timothy 1:17; Mark 11:10; ) and restore the tabernacle of David (Acts 15:16-17) so that all the gentile nations could join in to the true worship of Jehovah. The 1000 years shows a completed Monarchy instead of the fact that the Monarchy had fallen into ruin in the 500s BC via the Babylonian captivity.

David and Christ being the only 2 Kings in the line that matter, David the type, Christ the antitype, or fulfillment.

Christ fulfilled what all other kings in the line failed to do, thus bringing completion to, and fulfilling the purpose for, the Davidic monarchy, which was the "1000 year reign".

Again, the idea of a thousand years reign with Israel's Monarchy was an Old Testament hope -- one that was wished for but failed. The hopes of this glorious reign were laid out when Solomon took the throne after David. It was said that Israel would walk in the covenant blessings, and so much so that the Gentiles would come into the covenant (such as the Queen of Sheba's homage to Solomon). However, the "tabernacle of David" began to quickly crumble, and fell into total ruin by the time of the Babylonian exile. This all summarizes an OT type. Now, fast-forward to all the NT typology about Jesus being the TRUE "son of David" who was born as THE MESSIANIC HEIR to David's throne for raising up the Monarchy. This is what Revelation 20 is doing. It is using the Davidic Monarchy typology and applying it to Christ and the martyr-kings who reign in the Christic Monarchy, and it does so in exactly the same typological sense as other types we are more familiar with (Jesus is the "sacrifical lamb," etc). In Revelation 20 we see Jesus and his tribulation-martyr-kings reign; they defeat satan; they bring in the gentiles; and they judge the world. These are all the things hoped for in the OT times, but fulfilled in Jesus Christ and the New Covenant Church. The Church has all dominion with Christ over heaven and earth, satan was defeated, the gentles are now in the covenant, and Christ and the Church are the judges of the whole world.

Amazing History.

The promised regathering

Deut. 30:1-10
Is. 11:11-12:6
Is. 27:12-13
Is 43:5-7 (when Israel became a nation again in 1948 they first returned in this exact order.)
Jer. 16:14-15
Jer. 23:3-4
Jer. 23: 7-8
amos 9:14-15
Zeph. 3:18-20
Jer. 31:7-10
Ez. 11:14-18
Ez. 36:24

Again, All the prophecies about the dispersion and subsequent return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.
Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews from/to the geographic boundaries of earthly Israel.

Not even ONE.

Let me know when you are ready for more.

Long as you keep setting them up, I'll keep knocking them out of the park :)
 
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parousia70

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Cast out of the third heaven, but is now god of this world, until Jesus returns. 2Corinthians 4:4
How futurists make satan out to be god over Jesus in the present world is beyond me.

If we read Eph 2:2 and 2 Cor 4, we see they are pointing out how people in unbelief are not yet saved and set free, not that satan was a ruling god of the planet. Jesus defeated satan so that He rules over all demonic power (Jn 12:31; Matt 28:18; 1 Pet 3:22; 1 Jn 3:8; Heb 2:14-15; 2 Tim 1:10).

There are objects and fantasies that people may *mistake* to be god or have in place of God in the way they live their lives, but in no way are these real "gods." Those are all superstitions and fantasies.

If you read Job 1&2, satan is not god but only an angel that carried out a specific role for God in the Old Covenant age: accusing the Hebrews of their uncovered sins, that they might be judged and receive the curses of the Law. But the New Covenant removed the curse of the Law from God's people (Gal 3:10-13), and thus St. Paul says of the Christian:
"Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. (Rom 8:32-34)

And John says "he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not" (1 Jn 5:18)

And Paul says that Jesus, having spoiled principalities and powers, made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it" (Col 2:15). For, Jesus is "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come." (Eph 1:20-21)

So, you are confusing the idea of God with the idea that people have made for themselves substitute things for God that are not gods at all but mere superstitions. There is only ONE God with actual authority and power over the whole world, and it's JESUS:

"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth'" (Matthew 28:18)

Jesus Christ, not satan, is God and King over this world (over all of heaven and earth):

Ephesians 1:19-23
He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

1 Peter 3:22
Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

Revelation 1:5-6
Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever.

Only Christians are not in satans kingdom - the rest of the world is.

Your suggestion that one day even the unrepentant will share in Christ's Victory over Satan is wholly untenable to any honest Bible expositor.

Only Christians will EVER be Victorious over Satan. NEVER will the unrepentant enjoy victory over him. Your suggestion that one day in our future they will is unbiblical.

Look at the world, try to tell me satan is bound and the nations have turned from darkness to light.
I look at the World and I see Christians subduing Kingdoms and establishing righteousness everywhere on the planet, which is only possible BECAUSE Satan is Bound.

We went from 12 people in the Middle east to the Dominant, largest Religion on the planet in 2000 short years... hardly the work of the losing team, destined for defeat, hamstrung by and subservient to a world ruled By Satan that you suggest we are.

However the scriptures that tell how terrible and evil the world will get in the last days before Jesus returns, are in fact being fulfilled now.
We are the people of Hebrews 11 faith and dominon. We are the People who God has predestined that we might "establish righteousness and subdue kingdoms" as did the heroes of our Faith (Heb 11:33). And so we are the only nation upon earth that has been given all dominion over Heaven and earth to subdue it and establish Christ's law and rule among mankind.

Indeed the Church used to think that way up until the late 1800s and 1900s when the endtimes leaders (Darby, Scofield, Moody, Sunday, Lindsey, Impe, etc) began to teach a doctrine of "predestined endtimes defeatism for the Church." Their prescription to the Church? Withdrawal. Retreat. "Come out from her my people." Don't vote. "You Don't polish brass on a sinking ship." Your kids aren't gonna live long enough to choose a career, spouse or college. Etc. etc. etc. This short-term thinking has hamstrung our Churches and hamstrung America which was founded on great faith by Christians who were mostly unfamiliar with endtimes short-term thinking patterns. The pioneers of America were builders and people who saw human history through the eyes of all-powerful faith and Divine destiny.

That worldview and faith has been lost due to false endtimes dogmas such as those you hold so dear.

Only return to the Historic Partial Preterist view of the unstoppable Victory of the Gospel in the new covenant age will right that ship.
The historic Church has always had an eschatology of victory and hope. Catholic Amillennialists and later the Postmillennial Revivalists (Johnathan Edwards, etc) all have the same belief that the Church will triumph victorious in this age before the final consummation talked about in the historic creeds. As St. John also said, "The darkness is past; the true light now shineth!"

The apostles rightly understood that the purpose for the end of the Old Covenant Era was "that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:7) and that the Church is God's agent of His own glory and wisdom (Eph 3:1-11, 21). Augustine, Eusebius, the Puritans, and today's Reconstructionists all taught/teach us an eschatology of victory and triumph for the Church (and not doom and gloom).

Partial preterism is the most early and established Christian position on eschatology and it is the position that embraces and affirms the Victory of Christ and His Church in this age.

The Church is the only Nation of Christ that goes on forever, and the Church will never crumble (Matt 16:18-19;Eph 3:9-11,21). However, geo-political nations do come and go, for our God "sets up kings and puts them down" (Dan 2:21)... for God "is the supreme governor among the nations" (Ps 22:28)... for our God "rules over all the kingdoms of the heathen so none is able to withstand Him" (2 Chronicles 20:6)... and His "is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is His; His is the kingdom" (1 Chronicles 29:11). That is the gospel. That is the rule of law for mankind. That is the reality of the kingdom. The Church was given dominion over all the universe by divine right (Rom 4:12-18; Matt 28:18/Dan 7:14,27; Matt 5:5), and the world belongs to us (1 Cor 3:22) -- but, as with Joshua, the people of God must take it all by faith (1 Jn 5:4).

The vast majority of American evangelicals are dispensationalists, and they have been taught that America is doomed by God's will because we are in the last days. This has been their gospel for at least the past 100 years, and so those evangelicals and their kids and their grandkids were taught not to govern, run cities, play baseball, launch universities, or even get into media to fulfill one's duty to Christ. Mere personal piety was taught, the kind that doesn't affect anyone or anything else.
Ideas have consequences. Dispensationalist ideas have disastrous consequences (withdrawal, abandonment, escapism, surrender).

Their problem is that dispensationalists were taught a castrated, reduced gospel so that they don't even know what it means to have Christ govern their lives, marriages, jobs, society, and country. Moses understood what it meant to have Christ govern lives, societies, families and country. So did Joshua. And David. And the apostles. And King Jesus. And even many of the fathers of America.

That's why I trust the power of Partial Preterism to get Christians back in the game to win. Nearly all converts are willing, but they are often without vision from their endtimes pastors who have abandoned America due to some foolish "prophetic inevitability." We have to change the faithless cowardice of our abandonment clergy that are too drunk on endtimes wine to carry out their duties to the country, and the World, and encourage all Christians to embrace the victorious, historic preterist eschatology.
 
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nolidad

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That's why I trust the power of Partial Preterism to get Christians back in the game to win. Nearly all converts are willing, but they are often without vision from their endtimes pastors who have abandoned America due to some foolish "prophetic inevitability." We have to change the faithless cowardice of our abandonment clergy that are too drunk on endtimes wine to carry out their duties to the country, and the World, and encourage all Christians to embrace the victorious, historic preterist eschatology.

I chalk up this statement to your complete ignorance of nearly all "endtimes pastors". If you bothered to understand who we are and what we preach you would not write such benighted statements.
 
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nolidad

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Again, All the prophecies about the dispersion and subsequent return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.
Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews from/to the geographic boundaries of earthly Israel.

YOu say that because you have been taught to be a sloppy reader of the Word of God and that close enough is good enough for you as far as prophecy goes.

You do not believe in teh Word of God. but in a reinterpreted version of the Word of God.

Even some of the big theologians of amillenial theology (Cox, Allis, Hokema, Boettner) have all put in print that if we were to accept teh OT prophecies literally, then God has a future kingdom for Israel.

You should re read all those passages again and then research to see if they were fulfilled as written in the Word or fulfilled according to the opinion of a preterist or partial preterist.

I am willing to bet my local church is far more involves in evangelism and foreign missions than your s! I just finished a course on how to share the faith and saw new people share testimonies of the people they had a chance to give a tract to or talk about Jesus to. We see people come to know th eLord almost every week!
 
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nolidad

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I look at the World and I see Christians subduing Kingdoms and establishing righteousness everywhere on the planet, which is only possible BECAUSE Satan is Bound.

We went from 12 people in the Middle east to the Dominant, largest Religion on the planet in 2000 short years... hardly the work of the losing team, destined for defeat, hamstrung by and subservient to a world ruled By Satan that you suggest we are.

Wow do I want yor rose colored glasses!

Millions of unborn murdered each year.

China and the Muslim nations jailing and persecuting and murdering Christians.

Muslim faith advancing
Drugs being legalized
Alcoholism kill smore yearly than covid 19
Homosexuality accepted as the norm
Some countries have legalized inappropriate behavior with animals
Homosexual marriages.
Over 100 churches weekly closing forever in America.

Yes Christendom is huge- but riddled with heresy, apostasy and as Paul said- they profess a form of Godliness (good doctrine on paper) but deny the power thereof.

Teh gospel is not considered the only means of salvation by the majority of chruches.
The Poppe- the head of the largest sect of Christendom just said it was OKay for civil unions for gays.

If you call that winning- WOW! So yo believe in Dominion Theology! That the church is going to win the planet before Jesus returns- which is direct contradiction to what the Scriptures say as written.
 
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nolidad

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How futurists make satan out to be god over Jesus in the present world is beyond me.

Because we believe in the Word of God as written and not reinterpreted.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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The. Bible says one third of the world is burned up.

The earth is never destroyed. Two scriptures say, world without end, amen.

Just as the earth was destroyed by water, but it’s the same world, the earth will de destroyed by fire, and restored.
If it's truly by the same word as how the earth was destroyed by water then that means the entire earth will be burned up and destroyed just like it was by the water, not just 1/3 of it.

You mentioned "world without end" and that deserves a response. I agree. Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth. That wouldn't mean much if they inherited an earth that would no longer exist at some point, right? The earth will not be completely annihilated (like the fictional planet Alderaan in Star Wars was, for example), but rather the entire surface of the earth will be burned up and the earth will be renewed, resulting in the new earth.

We can see in Rev 21:1 that the first heaven and first earth will have passed away when the new heaven and new earth are ushered in. So, again, how can Zech 14:10-11 be speaking of a future event in light of this? How can that passage be talking about land that exists during a future millennial earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed again when scripture makes it clear that all of the land on earth will be burned up?

I’ve looked up scholarship on that, and they agree with my assessment.
There's plenty of Bible scholars who disagree, too, so why don't we leave them out of this since they don't all agree with each other? We can figure this out ourselves without them, can't we? Shouldn't we be like the Bereans? Who is your teacher, those scholars or the Holy Spirit?

Since Jerusalem is where God dwells for all eternity after Jesus returns, obviously Jerusalem is not going to be the parts of the earth that’s burned. Revelation 21.
It's ironic that you point to Rev 21 here because it clearly says that the first heaven and first earth (as they exist now) will pass away. Why are you denying clear scripture?
 
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nolidad

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Here's just a few:
1) The people there are not Hebrews nor are they descended from Hebrews
2) They do not Follow Moses or Practice Biblical Judaism in any way
3) Modern Israel is a Secular Democracy, not a Biblical Theocracy

I will chalk up these supposed counter arguments to your ignorance of the prophecies of God in the OT
 
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nolidad

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Here is the ONLY one world Government prophesied in Scripture:
Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end

As seems to be typical for you--wrong again.

1) The people there are not Hebrews nor are they descended from Hebrews

So you have done a DNA test on all who call themselves Jews? Or are you just spitballing like ti seems preterists like to do with the Scriptures.

All the prophecies about the dispersion and subsequent return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.

"In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places desolate . . . ye shall be scattered among the countries . . . among the nations whither they shall be carried captives . . . all the house of Israel shall remove and go into captivity . . . I will scatter them among the nations" (Ezekiel ch. 6–12).

This was the Diaspora. . . . And now the re-gathering of the Jews to their own land 70 years later:

"For thus saith the Lord, that after 70 years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you . . . and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations . . . and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive" (Jeremiah. 29: 10-14).

So you are saying that when God prophesied to all the post Babylon exile prophets and used the future tense- He was having a bad day? See if you look at all the passages I gave you you would see many of the minor prophets who prophesied after the return from Babylon!

So to you according to this answer, anytime the phrase "the nations where I have scattered you " must refer to the Babylonian captivity? So you do believe close enough is good enough for you.
 
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Junia

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There are a lot of people who believe in the teaching of the Seven Church Ages. You can find a lot of resources online concerning this subject.

It was taught by Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel. It was taught by William Branham.

You can also find this teaching in Willmington’s Guide to the Bible.

William Branham was.not.a.genuine teacher
 
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Ki Won

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The seven churches of Revelation are fourfold:

1. Literal actual churches in the 1st Century
2. 7 church ages (pick your own start/end dates it seems)
3. 7 types of church in the seven church ages
4. 7 types of believer in the 7 churches in the 7 ages

E.g. you could be a Smyrnan Christian in an Ephesian church during the Pergamos church age.. Or you could be what we largely have today, a Laodicean Christian in a Laodicean church during the Laodicean age.. (And a Laodicean Christian would probably be the last one to see it)

The amount of prophecy currently being fulfilled, both Biblical and non-Biblical suggests that the end is very close, how close I don't know, but it's likely most of us here will see it. Religions worldwide are all saying the same thing, i.e. "is this the end-times?", it was already happening before Covid, that just escalated the chatter exponentially.

As we speak the world stands on the brink of a worldwide food shortage and a global financial crash, both of which are likely to bring misery and death to even the cushy western countries. Are they the Biblical famine and economic crash? I think so and am preparing accordingly, you should too (if you're not already)
 
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parousia70

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So you have done a DNA test on all who call themselves Jews?

If I do a DNA test on Benjamin Netanyahu and one on Ivanka Trump, Both Jews, do you expect them to have the same ancestral markers?

I do!

It's a big club, and turns out we're all in it.

As a result of natural dispersion and diffusion over more than 3,000 years, Abraham's genome is ubiquitous in the entire human race.

Genetics and mathematics concur.

So does the contemporary Jewish community, who acknowledge and applaud the reality.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

You, nolidad, and I, are JUST AS GENETICALLY RELATED to the pre desolation Hebrew people as even the most devout Jew In Israel today. There is no genetic difference between you, I and them when it comes to whether or not we are descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

If there were, you could establish the fact with evidence to the contrary... but you can't, otherwise you would have already.. remember, the burden of proof is on the positive claimant. It's not anyone's Job to disprove what has not been proven in the first place. the onus is on you to prove your contention, which you have thus far failed to do.

Again I'll ask, If I call myself a Jew and move to Palestine, do I qualify as a participant in the fulfillment of any prophesy about the return of Jews to Jerusalem??

Or is there other criteria?

What other criteria can you cite beyond any person claiming "I am a Jew"?

So you are saying that when God prophesied to all the post Babylon exile prophets and used the future tense- He was having a bad day? See if you look at all the passages I gave you you would see many of the minor prophets who prophesied after the return from Babylon!

So to you according to this answer, anytime the phrase "the nations where I have scattered you " must refer to the Babylonian captivity? So you do believe close enough is good enough for you.

Again, and pay close attention, Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Genetic Hebrews from/to the geographic boundaries of earthly Israel.

Not even ONE.

If there were, you could post it.
But there isn't, which is why you haven't, because you can't.
 
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parousia70

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The seven churches of Revelation are fourfold:

1. Literal actual churches in the 1st Century
2. 7 church ages (pick your own start/end dates it seems)
3. 7 types of church in the seven church ages
4. 7 types of believer in the 7 churches in the 7 ages

Please provide any example of where scripture teaches points 2-4.

The amount of prophecy currently being fulfilled, both Biblical and non-Biblical suggests that the end is very close, how close I don't know, but it's likely most of us here will see it.

Every last divinely inspired apostle believed and taught THE EXACT SAME THING as this to their contemporaries nearly 2000 years ago.
Are you asking us to believe they were completely wrong, but you are right?

As we speak the world stands on the brink of a worldwide food shortage and a global financial crash, both of which are likely to bring misery and death to even the cushy western countries.

The Rapture index seems to think otherwise, and places the timing of the rapture further away today than it was in 2016:
Rapture Index - Latest activity indicators of when the Rapture might occur.
Rapture Ready Index
Rapture Index: 181
Updated:Oct 26, 2020


2016 High: 189

They list several categories as indicators, with comments as to why of the "nearness" of the rapture is further away today than it was 4 years ago..

Beast Government:
The government movement is having trouble with world unity.

Earthquakes:
The lack of major quakes has downgraded this category.

Famine:
There has been a decrease in the reporting of famines around the world.

Climate:
Global weather has been in the normal range.

Food Supply:
Fears of Covid-19 related food shortages have not panned out.

Satanism:
The lack of activity has downgraded this category.

Unemployment:
After months of negative news, unemployment data has turned positive.

Interest Rates:
The Coronavirus virus is putting downward pressure on rates.

Oil Supply/Price:

Oil prices have recovered from their negative price.

Drug Abuse:

The lack of activity has downgraded this category.

Are they the Biblical famine

Nope... This is the Biblical worldwide Famine that took place in the Biblical Last Days:
Acts 11:28
28 Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which happened in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Scripture interprets itself perfectly, Modern Day Newspapers do not.
 
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Ki Won

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Please provide any example of where scripture teaches points 2-4.



Every last divinely inspired apostle believed and taught THE EXACT SAME THING as this to their contemporaries nearly 2000 years ago.
Are you asking us to believe they were completely wrong, but you are right?



The Rapture index seems to think otherwise, and places the timing of the rapture further away today than it was in 2016:
Rapture Index - Latest activity indicators of when the Rapture might occur.
Rapture Ready Index
Rapture Index: 181
Updated:Oct 26, 2020


2016 High: 189

They list several categories as indicators, with comments as to why of the "nearness" of the rapture is further away today than it was 4 years ago..

Beast Government:
The government movement is having trouble with world unity.

Earthquakes:
The lack of major quakes has downgraded this category.

Famine:
There has been a decrease in the reporting of famines around the world.

Climate:
Global weather has been in the normal range.

Food Supply:
Fears of Covid-19 related food shortages have not panned out.

Satanism:
The lack of activity has downgraded this category.

Unemployment:
After months of negative news, unemployment data has turned positive.

Interest Rates:
The Coronavirus virus is putting downward pressure on rates.

Oil Supply/Price:

Oil prices have recovered from their negative price.

Drug Abuse:

The lack of activity has downgraded this category.



Nope... This is the Biblical worldwide Famine that took place in the Biblical Last Days:
Acts 11:28
28 Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which happened in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Scripture interprets itself perfectly, Modern Day Newspapers do not.
Rapture Index? Oh purleese..

Beast government - see my thread on the beast's of Revelation, it's not governments coming together..
Earthquakes - lack of? Erm.. Ok.. :doh:

Have you heard of the "Reset the table" initiative and the WEF's "Great reset" ? I'm not going to go into the rest of the guff in your post, it doesn't match reality..
 
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chad kincham

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Your suggestion that one day even the unrepentant will share in Christ's Victory over Satan is wholly untenable to any honest Bible expositor.

Only Christians will EVER be Victorious over Satan. NEVER will the unrepentant enjoy victory over him. Your suggestion that one day in our future they will is

Fortunately I never said that.

Right now satan is obviously the god, little g, of this world, who roams around as a roaring lion, seeking whom he can devour, that steals, kills, and destroys, so that Christians have to put on God’s armor to protect us against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Believe what you want.
 
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