The beasts of revelation 13

Ki Won · Nov 9, 2020

Douggg said:
It is 7 kings in Revelation 17:10 not seven kingdoms.

Again, in Revelation 13:1 it is not the names of the kings that were blaphemous - but the name of blasphemy was on the heads. The Julio-Claudian Caesars claimed to be gods.

The great harlot sits on the seven mountains - Rome, the city of seven hills. The Vatican will be burned to the ground.

Walid Shoebat does not understand the concept of the Antichrist. If he did, he would know the person cannot be a muslim.

Hah, at least we agree on one thing, Shoebat's hang-up with Mahdi being the AC is wrong.. Even if our reasons for disagreeing are different

Don't all "kingdoms" need a "king" ? How are you looking at the Word Doug? You do realise that the battle is a spiritual one don't you?

Those "kings" are the spirits of the seven heads of the beast. They manifest as a military kingdom (Egypt, Assyria, etc), a religious kingdom (Judaism, Islam, etc) and, presumably through the "messiahs", a political kingdom.

There are seven because unlike the seven Spirits of God that manifest themselves as the perfect whole in Jesus, in the beast those spirits are divided and separated. They manifest as separate entities despite still being a part of the whole in the beast (who is the eighth king), unlike Christ's Kingdom, which is a complete military, religious and political kingdom. The beast's final kingdom will be a whole but it will be a whole that is still divided, and a house divided cannot stand.

The Roman emperors might have claimed to be gods yet they still worshipped other gods, Janus being the oldest of them..

Ki Won · Nov 9, 2020

Minky said:
Thank you for your research. Interesting topic. Here's what I pulled up:

Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream 
I. Babylonian Empire (609–539 BC)
II. Medo-Persian Empire (539–332 BC)
III. Greek Empire (332–140 BC) 
IV. Roman Empire (63 BC–AD 476)

“Thus he said, ‘The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings (Dan. 7:23–24).”

Daniel’s Vision of Four Beasts
I. Babylonian Empire (609–539 BC)
II. Medo-Persian Empire (539–332 BC)
III. Greek Empire (332–140 BC) 
IV. Roman Empire (63 BC–AD 476) 
1. Pompey (63–49 BC)* 
2. Julius Caesar (49–44 BC) 
3. Augustus (44 BC–AD 14)
  4. Tiberius (AD 14–37)
  5. Caligula (AD 37–41)
  6. Claudius (AD 41–54)
  7. Nero (AD 54–68)
  8. Galba (AD 68–69)**
  9. Otho (AD 69)**
  10. Vitellius (AD 69)**
  11. Vespasian (AD 69–79)**  

* Siege of Jerusalem (63 BC) - Wikipedia  

** The Year of the Four Emperors, AD 69, was a period in the history of the Roman Empire in which four emperors ruled in succession: Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian. Between June of 68 and December of 69 Galba, Otho, and Vitellius successively rose and fell, the latter overlapping with the July 69 accession of Vespasian, who founded the Flavian dynasty.

Year of the Four Emperors - Wikipedia

Beast from the Sea 
“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (Rev. 13:1).”  

Symbolism is consistent in the Bible. This beast from the sea is a kingdom, as per Daniel 7:23. Yet it has two sets of kings: heads and horns. So, it is an alliance, such as the Axis Powers. Before the Napoleonic Wars, the Holy Roman Empire was a center of Christendom. It consisted of what are today known as Italy and Germany. The Byzantine Empire had fallen in 1453.

Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire: 1806

Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire - Wikipedia

  Seven Italian Kings/Heads (Rev. 17:10)
 1. Victor Emmanuel I (1802–1821) 
2. Charles Felix (1821–1831) 
3. Charles Albert (1831–1849) 
4. Victor Emmanuel II (1849–1878) 
5. Umberto I (1878–1900)
 6. Victor Emmanuel III (1900–1946)*
 7. Umberto II (1946)**

List of heads of state of Italy - Wikipedia  

The name of blasphemy: Emmanuel.

“But while he [Joseph] thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

“Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, ‘God with us (Mat. 1:20–23).’”

* “ITALIAN KING WOUNDED BERLIN [Rev. 13:3]. Dec. 28, 1915. (Via Sayville by wireless.) King Victor Emmanuel of Italy has been wounded by an Austrian grenade and is now in the hospital, it is stated by the Overseas News agency. The agency attributes its information to a traveler who has just arrived from Italy. Terroristic and anti-government demonstrations are extending to an alarming extent in Italy, according to this traveller.”

  South Bend News-Times 28 December 1915 — Hoosier State Chronicles: Indiana's Digital Historic Newspaper Program

“And I saw one of his heads [kings] as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast (Rev. 13:3).” 

** Reigned only 34 days; “a short space (Rev. 17:10).”

“And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space (Rev. 17:9–10).”

  Seven Hills of Rome
 1. Aventine Hill
 2. Caelian Hill 
3. Capitoline Hill 
4. Esquiline Hill 
5. Palatine Hill 
6. Quirinal Hill 
7. Viminal Hill  

Seven hills of Rome - Wikipedia

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (Rev. 17:12).”

Ten German Rulers/Horns (Rev. 17:12) 
1. Frederick William III (1797–1840) 
2. Frederick William IV (1840–1861) 
3. William I (1861–1888) 
4. Frederick III (1888)
 5. Wilhelm II (1888–1918)
 6. Friedrich Ebert (1918–1925)
 7. Hans Luther (1925) 
8. Walter Simons (1925) 
9. Paul von Hindenburg (1925–1934) 
10. Adolf Hitler (1934–1945)*

List of heads of state of Germany - Wikipedia

* Whose holocaust lasted 42 months (Rev. 13:5).

The Holocaust - Wikipedia

Hi Minky, thanks for your reply.

Wow, there's let's to go at there, most of which I have seen before. I will come back to it at some point but to start, why would "Emmanuel" be a name of blasphemy? As I said to Doug, calling yourself or claiming to be God is definitely blasphemous but the name Emmanuel itself isn't blasphemous, it's one of the names of Jesus..

WhoIsLikeGod? · Nov 9, 2020

Ki Won said:
Hi Minky, thanks for your reply.

Wow, there's let's to go at there, most of which I have seen before. I will come back to it at some point but to start, why would "Emmanuel" be a name of blasphemy? As I said to Doug, calling yourself or claiming to be God is definitely blasphemous but the name Emmanuel itself isn't blasphemous, it's one of the names of Jesus..

It would be blasphemous if they misused it, and the 3rd (Victor Emmanuel III) killed millions of innocent Jews in WWII. Benito Mussolini (his Prime Minister) was strongly against Christianity and blasphemed the Holy Spirit openly. I don't know what went on behind closed doors. Neither do you (sorry). One can only guess.

Ki Won · Nov 10, 2020

Minky said:
It would be blasphemous if they misused it, and the 3rd (Victor Emmanuel III) killed millions of innocent Jews in WWII. Benito Mussolini (his Prime Minister) was strongly against Christianity and blasphemed the Holy Spirit openly. I don't know what went on behind closed doors. Neither do you (sorry). One can only guess.

Again, people openly, even brazenly, blaspheming God is obviously blasphemous but the name Emmanuel isn't blasphemous, misused or not.

Tell me Minky, and others in the thread e.g. Doug, what is your thinking regarding things like false-flag attacks and freemasonry's use of numerology? Do you subscribe to the belief that, for the most part, those who rule over us (and the world) are largely luciferians and that it is they who instigate or coordinate "terrorist" attacks?

Btw, you could do worse than spend 12hrs watching this set of documentaries regarding WWII, it might actually open your eyes to the lies we've been told..

https://www.bit chute.com/video/TRn10MU1rDOs//
(Remove the space, obvs)

WhoIsLikeGod? · Nov 10, 2020

Ki Won said:
Again, people openly, even brazenly, blaspheming God is obviously blasphemous but the name Emmanuel isn't blasphemous, misused or not.

Tell me Minky, and others in the thread e.g. Doug, what is your thinking regarding things like false-flag attacks and freemasonry's use of numerology? Do you subscribe to the belief that, for the most part, those who rule over us (and the world) are largely luciferians and that it is they who instigate or coordinate "terrorist" attacks?

Btw, you could do worse than spend 12hrs watching this set of documentaries regarding WWII, it might actually open your eyes to the lies we've been told..

https://www.bit chute.com/video/TRn10MU1rDOs//
(Remove the space, obvs)

The name Emmanuel is blasphemous on anyone except for Jesus. It was designated for him only, by Isaiah. Using Emmanuel casually, irreverently, or impiously for anyone but Jesus is blasphemy. The Bible itself says it's the name that is blasphemous. A name is just a title you call someone. So to blaspheme with a name is to casually imprecate God's name with one word, two or three at most. There is no easier way to do that than by claiming Christ's name for oneself.

In regards to your 2nd topic: yes, I do believe that some of our Presidents have been lying, dirty, scumbags, but not all. Most of our Presidents have claimed to be Christian, but I don't think they know what that means. Do they instigate or coordinate terrorist attacks? Yes, I think they might. I think it's interesting that in 2020, the year China and Facebook released the world's first digital currencies, which they're hoping will replace cash, a global pandemic got out that is driving businesses to accept cards and mobile payments only. And then there was a national coin shortage? I view numerology as mysticism, though I have not studied the Kaballah. I'm not really interested in assigning numbers to words or ideas, however. Let your words be words and your numbers be numbers, unless you're working on some sort of code. The Bible definitely does have patterns in numbers. I just try to memorize them for what they are, not something else.

Ki Won · Nov 10, 2020

Minky said:
The name Emmanuel is blasphemous on anyone except for Jesus. It was designated for him only, by Isaiah. Using Emmanuel casually, irreverently, or impiously for anyone but Jesus is blasphemy. The Bible itself says it's the name that is blasphemous. A name is just a title you call someone. So to blaspheme with a name is to casually imprecate God's name with one word, two or three at most. There is no easier way to do that than by claiming Christ's name for oneself.

In regards to your 2nd topic: yes, I do believe that some of our Presidents have been lying, dirty, scumbags, but not all. Most of our Presidents have claimed to be Christian, but I don't think they know what that means. Do they instigate or coordinate terrorist attacks? Yes, I think they might. I think it's interesting that in 2020, the year China and Facebook released the world's first digital currencies, which they're hoping will replace cash, a global pandemic got out that is driving businesses to accept cards and mobile payments only. And then there was a national coin shortage? I view numerology as mysticism, though I have not studied the Kaballah. I'm not really interested in assigning numbers to words or ideas, however. Let your words be words and your numbers be numbers, unless you're working on some sort of code. The Bible definitely does have patterns in numbers. I just try to memorize them for what they are, not something else.

I don't particularly have much of an interest in numerology myself either, I was asking more about the numbers they usually encode within their false flag attacks, you know they do that, right? Like 911 and 923 1628 322, 33.. Etc.

See, I ask, because it appears that almost all of those numbers refers to a Scripture that is directly connected to Jannes, Jambres and Jezebel. I discovered that by accident when trying to find Scriptures about Janus/Jannes and Jambres, it was easier to use the false flag encoded numbers to find the Scriptures than to read the Scriptures.

Personally I take that as a further validation of my interpretation. Try it yourself, most of the Scriptures are in Exodus, but Numbers is where you'll find Jambres' death and 2 Kings for Jezebel's death.

Douggg · Nov 10, 2020

Ki Won said:
Again, people openly, even brazenly, blaspheming God is obviously blasphemous but the name Emmanuel isn't blasphemous, misused or not.

Tell me Minky, and others in the thread e.g. Doug, what is your thinking regarding things like false-flag attacks and freemasonry's use of numerology? Do you subscribe to the belief that, for the most part, those who rule over us (and the world) are largely luciferians and that it is they who instigate or coordinate "terrorist" attacks?

Btw, you could do worse than spend 12hrs watching this set of documentaries regarding WWII, it might actually open your eyes to the lies we've been told..

https://www.bit chute.com/video/TRn10MU1rDOs//
(Remove the space, obvs)

I don't think it is the masons that will influence the person in question - but more likely Kabbalah, i.e. Jewish mysticism.

Daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

In Kabbalah, there is a belief that the masters of it can harness the angels to carry out their agenda. There is a story about a rabbi who wanted to usher in the messianic age
by binding up the SM, but things got out of hand with some bad results. That story is used as the reason in Jewish Kabbalah a person has to be at least 40 years old, married, before he can even get started.

Dreaming of Moshiach: The Story: Rise and Fall of Rabbi Joseph Della Reina

Ki Won · Nov 10, 2020

Douggg said:
I don't think it is the masons that will influence the person in question - but more likely Kabbalah, i.e. Jewish mysticism.

Daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

In Kabbalah, there is a belief that the masters of it can harness the angels to carry out their agenda. There is a story about a rabbi who wanted to usher in the messianic age
by binding up the SM, but things got out of hand with some bad results. That story is used as the reason in Jewish Kabbalah a person has to be at least 40 years old, married, before he can even get started.

Dreaming of Moshiach: The Story: Rise and Fall of Rabbi Joseph Della Reina

Read the post above yours Doug..

If you believe that false flags happen and that they code certain numbers into them, it's a mighty big coincidence that those numbers validate my interpretation by pointing to Bible verses that have a direct connection to the three named individuals in my OP, Jannes, Jambres and Jezebel. And as I told Minky, I found that by accident but it screams confirmation. Not that your letting your Roman emperors go Doug..

Douggg · Nov 10, 2020

Ki Won said:
Read the post above yours Doug..

If you believe that false flags happen and that they code certain numbers into them, it's a mighty big coincidence that those numbers validate my interpretation by pointing to Bible verses that have a direct connection to the three named individuals in my OP, Jannes, Jambres and Jezebel. And as I told Minky, I found that by accident but it screams confirmation. Not that your letting your Roman emperors go Doug..

Mark 15:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

The great opposer to Jesus starts as the little horn, who uses craft, i.e. occultism for his success, to become the leader of the EU.

Later that person becomes the Antichrist, for a while. Then later becomes the beast after his run as the Antichrist is over.

WhoIsLikeGod? · Nov 10, 2020

Douggg said:
Mark 15:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

View attachment 288506

The great opposer to Jesus starts as the little horn, who uses craft, i.e. occultism for his success, to become the leader of the EU.

Later that person becomes the Antichrist, for a while. Then later becomes the beast after his run as the Antichrist is over.

Doug, I appreciate your dedication to this topic. Grace and peace to you. There are other ways of interpreting/assigning meaning to the Bible verses depicted in your graphic.

Daniel 7 is about Daniel's Vision of Four Beasts. The fourth beast had ten horns, then another, little horn. Dan. 7:23–23 defines beasts as kingdoms and horns as kings from those kingdoms. The four kingdoms are traditionally assigned to Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. As you well know, the ten horns represent the first ten kings of Rome from the Siege of Rome in 63 BC.

Daniel 8 has a different topic. I don't know why you chose to associate Daniel 7 with Daniel 8 and the little horn. Daniel 8 doesn't relate to the little horn of Daniel 7. Instead, Daniel 8 is about the war between Medo-Persia and Greece from 336–330 BC.

Wars of Alexander the Great - Wikipedia

The ram with the two horns represent the kings of Media and Persia (Dan. 8:20). It's spelled right out for us in the Bible. The goat represents the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn that is between his eyes was the first king (Dan. 8:21). Alexander the Great (r. 332–323 BC).

Alexander the Great - Wikipedia

The broken horn and the four horns that came up in its place represent four kingdoms which arose from his nation, although not with power (Dan. 8:22). These represent the Ptolemaic Kingdom, the Seleucid Empire, the Kingdom of Pergamon, and the Kingdom of Macedon.

Diadochi - Wikipedia

Why are you combining these horns, when they are unrelated? Daniel 7 spans 609 BC to AD 476, broken down as follows:

I. Babylonian Empire (609–539 BC)
II. Medo-Persian Empire (539–332 BC)
III. Greece (332–140 BC)
IV. Roman Empire (63 BC–AD 476)

Daniel 8 spans 336 to 140 BC, viz.:

1. Alexander the Great (336–323 BC)
2. Alexander IV of Macedon (323–309 BC)
3. Cassander (309–301 BC)
4. Ptolemy I Soter (301–284 BC)
5. Ptolemy II Philadelphus (284–246 BC)
6. Ptolemy III Eurgetes (246–221 BC)
7. Ptolemy IV Philopator (221–204 BC)
8. Ptolemy V Epiphanes (204–200 BC)
9. Antiochus III the Great (200–187 BC)
10. Seleucus IV Philopator (187–175 BC)
11. Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175–164 BC)
Maccabean Revolt (167–160 BC)
12. Judas Maccabeus (167–160 BC)
13. Simon Maccabeus (142–135 BC)

The Hasmonean Kingdom was established in 140 BC.

The beast in Revelation 13 is not the antichrist; they are the seven heads and ten horns of the beast (kingdom) from the sea, followed by two horns of the beast from the earth.

The antichrist in Revelation is described in Rev. 17:11—"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

And again in Rev. 11 with the two witnesses—"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

And also in Rev. 9:11 with the locusts—"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

He is correctly described in 1 Jo. 2:18 and 2 Th. 2 on your graphic.

Okay, now I'll hand it over to you.

Douggg · Nov 11, 2020

Minky said:
The four kingdoms are traditionally assigned to Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. As you well know, the ten horns represent the first ten kings of Rome from the Siege of Rome in 63 BC.

Minky, regarding Daniel 7, the ten horns are end times because the little horn person, yet to come and be destroyed when Jesus returns setting up the kingdom of God here on earth; the little horn person removes three kings of those kings.

So the ten horns (kings) and the little horn are end times.

Minky said:
Daniel 8 has a different topic. I don't know why you chose to associate Daniel 7 with Daniel 8 and the little horn. Daniel 8 doesn't relate to the little horn of Daniel 7. Instead, Daniel 8 is about the war between Medo-Persia and Greece from 336–330 BC.

Daniel 8, the little horn's transgression of desolation is stated in the text to be time of the end.

In Daniel 8:23, the little horn is stated to be a king of fierce countenance (similar to the stout look of the little horn in Daniel 7) to arise in the latter time of the kingdom of the transgressors (the host given to him) has come to a full - i.e. the kingdom's final form, with the ten kings in place.

In Daniel 8:20-22, Gabriel is explaining the overall vision Daniel had. Which was future to Daniel, but is historic to us.

Where people make the mistake is not making the jump to the time of the end when reading Daniel 8:23, which is the time of the little horn's transgression of desolation. Don't fight the text. The specific vision of the stopping of the daily sacrifice and transgression of desolation by the little horn is time of the end.

There is the overall vision beginning in Daniel 8:1, and then there is the specific vision of the transgression of desolation by little horn.

The jump to the time of the end - is in Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11. It is not something unique to Daniel 8.

Ki Won · Nov 11, 2020

Douggg said:
Minky, regarding Daniel 7, the ten horns are end times because the little horn person, yet to come and be destroyed when Jesus returns setting up the kingdom of God here on earth; the little horn person removes three kings of those kings.

So the ten horns (kings) and the little horn are end times.
Daniel 8, the little horn's transgression of desolation is stated in the text to be time of the end.

In Daniel 8:23, the little horn is stated to be a king of fierce countenance (similar to the stout look of the little horn in Daniel 7) to arise in the latter time of the kingdom of the transgressors (the host given to him) has come to a full - i.e. the kingdom's final form, with the ten kings in place.

In Daniel 8:20-22, Gabriel is explaining the overall vision Daniel had. Which was future to Daniel, but is historic to us.

Where people make the mistake is not making the jump to the time of the end when reading Daniel 8:23, which is the time of the little horn's transgression of desolation. Don't fight the text. The specific vision of the stopping of the daily sacrifice and transgression of desolation by the little horn is time of the end.

There is the overall vision beginning in Daniel 8:1, and then there is the specific vision of the transgression of desolation by little horn.

The jump to the time of the end - is in Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11. It is not something unique to Daniel 8.

Why does my head hurt after reading one of your posts Doug? All this jumping around from verse to verse to chapter to chapter in order to prop up your interpretation is just not good theology, why can you not see this?

Douggg · Nov 11, 2020

Ki Won said:
Why does my head hurt after reading one of your posts Doug? All this jumping around from verse to verse to chapter to chapter in order to prop up your interpretation is just not good theology, why can you not see this?

I was showing how the ten kings in Daniel 7 cannot be ten historic kings as Minky was saying. That they and the little horn are time of the end.

And I was showing that the little horn in Daniel 7, time of the end, is the same little horn in Daniel 8 is time of the end. That it is the same person in both chapters referred to as the little horn.

_________________________________________

Then I gave an overview statement that Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11 - all have parts that to us are historic. But all jump to the time of the end after the historic parts.

Douggg · Nov 11, 2020

Ki Won said:
Why does my head hurt after reading one of your posts Doug? All this jumping around from verse to verse to chapter to chapter in order to prop up your interpretation is just not good theology, why can you not see this?

I will narrower it down to two verses for you...

Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

BABerean2 · Nov 11, 2020

Douggg said:
I will narrower it down to two verses for you...

Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Antiochus Epiphanes 167 BC.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

.

Douggg · Nov 11, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Antiochus Epiphanes 167 BC.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

.

Antiochus not time of the end.

The ten kings in Daniel 7 = the ten toes in Daniel 2 = the ten horns in Revelation.

Time of the end kings.

Ki Won · Nov 12, 2020

Douggg said:
I was showing how the ten kings in Daniel 7 cannot be ten historic kings as Minky was saying. That they and the little horn are time of the end.

And I was showing that the little horn in Daniel 7, time of the end, is the same little horn in Daniel 8 is time of the end. That it is the same person in both chapters referred to as the little horn.

_________________________________________

Then I gave an overview statement that Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11 - all have parts that to us are historic. But all jump to the time of the end after the historic parts.

I know you're not going to believe this but I swear it's the truth, when I read the email re: this message I developed a headache before I'd finished reading the mail..

Douggg said:
Antiochus not time of the end.

The ten kings in Daniel 7 = the ten toes in Daniel 2 = the ten horns in Revelation.

Time of the end kings.

Your understanding of kingdoms is flawed, a "kingdom" is any sphere of influence not just a political/monarchical (is that a word?) reign. As I said in the OP, those "kings" are the leaders of the ten separate branches of the only seven religions beside Christianity that have a messianic figure. Like your thread title says Doug, it's not complicated.. (Certainly not as complicated as you make it out to be)

WhoIsLikeGod? · Nov 16, 2020

Douggg said:
Antiochus not time of the end.

The ten kings in Daniel 7 = the ten toes in Daniel 2 = the ten horns in Revelation.

Time of the end kings.

The ten horns in Revelation 13 also include 7 heads. Where are the heads in Daniel 7??? Also, there are ELEVEN HORNS in Daniel 7. Ten plus the little one. The little horn in Daniel 8 came from 4 big ones. Not ten, as in Daniel 7. They are all different kingdoms, and Daniel 7 is historic. Daniel 8 is historical, but Revelation 13 is present and future. Hope this helps. Have a safe Thanksgiving, y'all.

Michael (Minky) Duncan

[STAFF EDITED]

Douggg · Nov 16, 2020

Minky said:
The ten horns in Revelation 13 also include 7 heads. Where are the heads in Daniel 7??? Also, there are ELEVEN HORNS in Daniel 7. Ten plus the little one. The little horn in Daniel 8 came from 4 big ones. Not ten, as in Daniel 7. They are all different kingdoms, and Daniel 7 is historic. Daniel 8 is historical, but Daniel 13 is present and future. Hope this helps. Have a safe Thanksgiving, y'all.

Michael (Minky) Duncan

The four horns representing Alexander's breakup kingdoms - out of one of those is the location from which the little horn will wax (come) with a strong army into the middle east toward Israel from the north and west - at the time of the end.

Parts of Daniel 7 and 8 are historic. But not the little horn and the ten kings - which are time of the end.

The little horn in Daniel and the little horn in Daniel 8 are the same person.

Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

____________________________________________________________________

Where are the ten horns on the 7 heads? you asked. And what about the heads themselves?

The beast in Revelation 13 has a mouth like a lion, which speaks blasphemies against God and them in heaven in v5. So in my rendition, I have the heads as lions, and one of the lion's heads notably greater than the other 6, who does all the blaspheme talk.

The notable head is the little horn person who begins as the leader of the EU, the end times Roman Empire. And after a failed stint as the King of Israel/messiah, by revealing himself to be the man of sin, and not the messiah after - he is killed and brought back to life - as the beast, dictator of the EU.

The ten horns, since they are associated with the person when he comes to power in the EU, and then later rule with him as the beast - for that reason I placed the ten horns on the notable lion's head.

I put the other six lion's heads behind the notable head, in the background - because those are in the past.

The lion heads don't have crowns in Revelation 13 because once the little horn person is killed - it ends the prophecy of the 7 kings of Revelation 17:10.

The horns, however, do have crowns because they rule with the person after he has become the beast.

Douggg · Nov 16, 2020

Ki Won said:
Your understanding of kingdoms is flawed, a "kingdom" is any sphere of influence not just a political/monarchical (is that a word?) reign.

It can be. Satan's kingdom of Babylon the great is such a kingdom, not a physical kingdom, i.e. country like England.

The beasts of revelation 13

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