Can genuine Christians be liars and racists?

Rescued One

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Philippians 4:8-9
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

?
 

Friedrich Rubinstein

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A real Christian is not a liar. We struggle sometimes and a Christian might lie, regret and repent, but if they're a genuine Christian it won't happen often.

The term "racist" is used so much today that I wouldn't say the same here. I've heard people being called "racist" for things that have nothing to do with racism.
A genuine Christian will not discriminate a minority or look down on colored people for example, but - as an example from me as European - a Christian might be against the floods of Mideastern immigrants in our countries.
 
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.Mikha'el.

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I believe that people who lie even once in their lives become liars, meaning that every one of us is one. With that being said, I also believe that if everyone told the truth every single time about everything, our society would fall apart and that we all need to tell, if nothing else, little white lies just to keep peace sometimes. I understand Scripture as condemning habitual or malicious lying, not the telling of any and all untruths.
 
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Rescued One

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A real Christian is not a liar. We struggle sometimes and a Christian might lie, regret and repent, but if they're a genuine Christian it won't happen often.

The term "racist" is used so much today that I wouldn't say the same here. I've heard people being called "racist" for things that have nothing to do with racism.
A genuine Christian will not discriminate a minority or look down on colored people for example, but - as an example from me as European - a Christian might be against the floods of Mideastern immigrants in our countries.

I think fear is something that makes people blurt out lies. We need to examine ourselves and not hate those who might hurt us. Are we afraid that Muslims might become the majority in our country? Will they change our laws? There was a time when Protestants fled France. Some issues are very complex. I certainly don't have all the answers. Perhaps Christians who wish no harm to non-Christians, are wary of non-Christians with different values influencing their children or changing laws that they have grown up with.

???
 
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Rescued One

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I believe that people who lie even once in their lives become liars, meaning that every one of us is one. With that being said, I also believe that if everyone told the truth every single time about everything, our society would fall apart and that we all need to tell, if nothing else, little white lies just to keep peace sometimes. I believe that what the Bible condemns in lying is habitual and malicious lying, not the telling of any and all untruths.

I'm guilty of lying but I don't think lies can be white. Not answering or changing the subject might be better. "I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me."
 
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Rescued One

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A real Christian is not a liar. We struggle sometimes and a Christian might lie, regret and repent, but if they're a genuine Christian it won't happen often.

I agree. When I suddenly realize I've done wrong, I ask God's forgiveness. I regret times I lied or even unintentionally given bad advice when I thought I was being helpful.
 
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Rescued One

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The reason I began this thread, is that a Democrat who has known me for years asked me if I am a racist. I have never, ever been a racist. It was upsetting that Democrats can assume that.
 
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Sabertooth

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Can genuine Christians be liars and racists?
Racists?
No. You cannot fulfill the second greatest commandment, "Love your neighbor as yourself," [Matthew 22:39] and be a racist.
Some who have been Saved out from racist beginnings might carry some remnants of their racist past, but the Holy Spirit will lead them away from that. (Even the first apostles had some racism until Cornelius' conversion.)

Also, do not allow "positive" racism to diminish any discernment that God might grant to the contrary. (Positive racism is when you ascribe undue trust, confidence, etc. based on the other person's race.)

Liars?
It depends on how you mean "lying."
Lying is a weapon; a tactic. Misuse of that weapon is forbidden by the commandment, “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor," [Exodus 20:16]. In that sense, you cannot continue in lying (with the same caveats as above).

Not all lying is "against one's neighbor," however.

Consider this verse from the Road to Emmaus [Luke 24:13-35],

"Then they drew near to the village where they were going,
and [Jesus, incognito] indicated that He would have gone farther.*
But they constrained Him, saying,
'Abide with us, for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent.'​
And He went in to stay with them." Luke 24:28-29 NKJV

*Jesus had intended to stay with them all along. He had no intention of going anywhere else.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Since all Christians lie at some point in their lives I think it's safe to say liars can be Christian.

It's more interesting to ask the racism question. If I'm looking at things historically, even Popes in medieval times had no problem calling the Islamic Turks a Godless and abominable race of people (a sentiment perhaps many Armenians today agree with). I think many Christians might have had similar thoughts about the Scandinavians, the Goths, the Avars, the Hungarians, the Mongols, and the French... Let's not forget old fashioned hatred for Jews.

In some cases that hatred or antipathy was quite reasonable. If some Mongols came into your yard, politely asked for ten thousand dollars and when they didn't receive it, proceed to raze your house, I dare say you might have an antipathy for Mongolians and Tengri. Not everyone can have saint like patience and watch their friends and family be slaughtered while praying for the conversion of the souls of Mongolians, even if that's something we should all aim for. In such a case I don't think bigotry is the worse problem there.

So can a genuine Christian be racist? Sure. As much as they can be any number of things. Professors, Philosphers and even modern Politicians (maybe). What counts more than any flaw in our thinking or personality is if we confess Christ and who he is. At least from our earthly perspective. If you do that, you're a genuine Christian, even if everything you say and do is wrong.
 
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mlepfitjw

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I'll tell you something and forget and then you remind me. I kind of forgotten when I told you the first time, I lied but hey thanks for remind me. Sometimes I might smoke a cigarette but tell you I dont smoke.

Hey Im not perfect also a lot people tell white lights... it doesnt make it a lie... no no way.

Get real no is perfect and no one is without a filter, yeah i like you but darn dang it sometimes you annoy me when you do this or that.

You see my point?

Now racism, I would say no because of the love and love would be for all people of course. Color is a bit extensive and HATE = DARKNESS.

1 John 2:11

But anyone who hates a fellow believer is still living and walking in darkness. Such a person does not know the way to go, having been blinded by the darkness.
 
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Of course. We haven’t been perfected. No one ever poses this question when lust is mentioned. Can real Christians be addicted to inappropriate contentography? Absolutely! Many are.

Some sins are struggles and others are strongholds. There’s a difference. The key is resistance.

Spiritual struggles are areas of weakness where we have the reins. Strongholds are places where Satan has control. Resistance is harder and deliverance is usually required.

Lying is a struggle. Compulsive liars have a stronghold.
Prejudice is a struggle. Racists have a stronghold.

Yours in His Service,

~bella
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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I think fear is something that makes people blurt out lies. We need to examine ourselves and not hate those who might hurt us. Are we afraid that Muslims might become the majority in our country? Will they change our laws? There was a time when Protestants fled France. Some issues are very complex. I certainly don't have all the answers. Perhaps Christians who wish no harm to non-Christians, are wary of non-Christians with different values influencing their children or changing laws that they have grown up with.

???

It really is complex. It's not only their influence and changing laws, it's that here in Germany the government makes sure that every person got enough money to live. Many of these immigrants don't speak our language and can't get a job, so they are funded by us, the tax-payers. Then there are homes for people seeking asylum where pedestrians passing by are stabbed frequently. The number of rapes has increased with the amount of immigrants from the Mideast. And just recently there was a car crashing into a crowd - again. The driver? An asylum seeker.
There is nothing to say against immigrants who integrate into the nation or at least try to cooperate, but sadly there are overwhelming amounts of immigrants (specifically from certain countries) who do exactly the opposite.
Yet I would not classify it as racism when we're worried about our safety and the stability of our nation.
 
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Rescued One

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I am not saying that all Christians have reached perfection. Nevertheless we should abhor sin and keep asking God to help us do His will instead of Satan's will. We have victory over sin.

Acts 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 John 4
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Ephesians 6
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

2 Timothy 3

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16
All scripture
is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
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Rescued One

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It really is complex. It's not only their influence and changing laws, it's that here in Germany the government makes sure that every person got enough money to live. Many of these immigrants don't speak our language and can't get a job, so they are funded by us, the tax-payers. Then there are homes for people seeking asylum where pedestrians passing by are stabbed frequently. The number of rapes has increased with the amount of immigrants from the Mideast. And just recently there was a car crashing into a crowd - again. The driver? An asylum seeker.
There is nothing to say against immigrants who integrate into the nation or at least try to cooperate, but sadly there are overwhelming amounts of immigrants (specifically from certain countries) who do exactly the opposite.
Yet I would not classify it as racism when we're worried about our safety and the stability of our nation.
I have so often wondered about the situation in Germany. I am concerned and will continue to pray for Europe and people around the world. I lived in Germany for 3 years as a young child and I first learned to pray in German (by the grace of God). In 1964 I was there from July through November.


God bless you!
 
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disciple Clint

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Philippians 4:8-9
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

?
I would answer your question with a question. Can a genuine Christian sin? Romans 3:23
 
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Dave G.

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Sin is no longer our issue, faith is. We must endure in the faith till the end it says. Sin we confess and walk away from but it was forgiven at the cross. Once we come to Christ and are reborn of the Spirit we are new creations transformed from the ruler of darkness to light. We are no longer of this world just living here and our kingdom is with the Lord. We should live accordingly but we still have that old flesh that we live in till as mentioned above, we get perfected and receive our new glorified bodies. Only Christ Jesus was ever perfect, we certainly aren't but we are saved. We sin every day of our lives and may not even realize it. Hah, ever judge a politician ! We aren't to judge, it's not our call but Gods. Don't judge yourself, let God search your heart and point out the faults then agree with him and turn it over to Him. He knows our true imperfections better than we do. And that's where the faith and trust comes in. Fighting the good fight is staying strong in the faith and enduring with God till the end. Amen
 
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Rescued One

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I would answer your question with a question. Can a genuine Christian sin? Romans 3:23

Romans 3:23 says that everyone has sinned.


“For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin — because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.” – Romans 6:6-7

So, shall we then continue in sin that grace may abound? Paul replies with a resounding “God forbid” (Romans 6:2). To desire to continue in sin shows a misunderstanding of this abundant grace and a contempt for Jesus’ sacrifice. Either we believe what God says is true or we don’t. Either we take him at his word when he equates sin to death, or we do not believe him at all (Ephesians 2:1).
Weekly Devotional: Shall We Sin That Grace May Abound?.
 
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OzJohnson

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I think everyone has lied at some point in their lifetimes, Christian or not; although some people lie more than others. Nearly every Christian has lied to children about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny; it's a white lie and gives children imagination and makes them feel joy and behave well so they get more Christmas presents or Easter eggs. I believe the commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" applies to more than merely to perjury under binding oath in court as the Pharisees would have people believe, and means to not dishonestly bring someone's character, actions and reputation into disrepute, whether you're in court or under oath or not. White lies about Santa Claus and the Easter bunny are not in the same category as lies that affect people's reputation or trust relations between peoples, and Christians tend to be the most remorseful of people if/when they make these.

Both race prejudice and lying are integral parts of the human condition that we should attempt to minimize in civilized society rather than eliminate altogether as that would be obviously impossible as well as highly undesirable. Race-centrism is like peeing and pooing - something that would seem otherwise undesirable that is an inherent part of the human condition and is there for excreting waste and to mark and hold territory, and it's preferred people do it in private in a toilet rather than on someone else.

There were protestors and rioters in the UK recently who spray painted "was a racist" underneath Winston S. Churchill's name on his statues. Maybe we should say yes he actually was, and so was Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi; some people like Churchill are just more honest, and not hypocritical and have common sense. If people are offended by Winston Churchill's attitude to race, Empire, Western Civilization and Christianity, perhaps they shouldn't have moved to the UK in the first place.

I also find a paradox in the original poster's question "can genuine Christians be liars and racists?" I think I'm hard wired genetically for ethnocentrism and politically incorrect humour, so I would have to lie if I was to say I didn't have any racism at all, and I prefer to be honest with myself. I'm also compassionate, tolerant and understanding of others, and I have friends of many races - Black, White, Oriental Asian, subcontinental Indian and Australian aboriginal; race is no barrier to friendship or getting along and working with people for me, although I do show fortitude when it comes to defending Christianity, western civilization, white British Isles/European peoples, or rights and liberties and good governance, law & order and a positive view of our history and I'm not ashamed to either.
 
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Rescued One

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Sin is no longer our issue, faith is. We must endure in the faith till the end it says. Sin we confess and walk away from but it was forgiven at the cross. Once we come to Christ and are reborn of the Spirit we are new creations transformed from the ruler of darkness to light. We are no longer of this world just living here and our kingdom is with the Lord. We should live accordingly but we still have that old flesh that we live in till as mentioned above, we get perfected and receive our new glorified bodies. Only Christ Jesus was ever perfect, we certainly aren't but we are saved. We sin every day of our lives and may not even realize it. Hah, ever judge a politician ! We aren't to judge, it's not our call but Gods. Don't judge yourself, let God search your heart and point out the faults then agree with him and turn it over to Him. He knows our true imperfections better than we do. And that's where the faith and trust comes in. Fighting the good fight is staying strong in the faith and enduring with God till the end. Amen

People certainly have different ideas about the Bible. Some used to teach that a Christian can have "entire sanctification." And there is no scripture that says we sin every day of our lives as far as I know.

By their fruits, ye shall know them. We are supposed to walk in the light, not darkness.
 
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I hate racism and always have! I don't recall ever seeing anyone of another race until I was five or six. I asked my mother why their skin was brown. And I didn't understand why skin color determined which water fountain you could drink from!
 
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