AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

RBPerry said:

My goodness, why do you fill these threads with scripture? We have all read the bible, we know what it says. How about the books the Protestants through out? How about the apocrypha's that have been found and translated? How about the Christian near-death experiences, better yet, how about those NDE of atheist that returned and are now believers.
What you don't get, is God still speaks to us today, most just aren't listening, or paying attention.
I'm sorry but you are like the guy that goes out and finds a passage. "Judas hung himself" then finds another one, "do likewise"
What you are really implying is there is no truth other than the bible and I can show you some major major errors in the bible if you take them literally and not spiritually.
Remember, Paul said "all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable"
How about polygamy, is that a sin, was practiced for ages, Jesus never spoke against it. That is one thing old Joseph Smith had right, it was never condemned by God, only man.
You are right about one thing, we aren't going to agree.

Click to expand...

For many of us only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Acts of the Apostles 5:29. You are correct in saying there is no truth other than God's Word as written in the bible. Protestants did not remove any books from the Bible. At the time of the reformation, Protestants recognized as canonical books of the Bible the 39 Hebrew books recognized by the Jews and called by Christians the Old Testament, and the 27 Greek books universally accepted by Christians as the New Testament scriptures or Word of God. In dispute were 12 books or parts of books written in Greek of unknown origins and referred to as the Apocrypha, because their origins were “hidden”, that is, unknown. Protestants recognize a fundamental difference between the Apocrypha (The Greek books of unknown origins) and the Hebrew Bible as do the Jews. The books of the Apocrypha only exist in Greek; there are no Hebrew texts of these books and are not included in the Hebrew bible and not given the title of scripture or God's Word and were not be be read as such. Obviously they do not belong to the Old Testament, but also, neither do they belong to the New Testament as they were Greek books not written in Hebrew and written before the new testament times. We think of the Bible in terms of two parts: the Old Testament and the New Testament. So where do we put these books? Do we just make up a whole new section for them? They are not on the same status as scripture according to the Hebrews and never given the status of "scripture" or the Word of God and were never meant to be read that way.

Hope this helps.

RBPerry said:

The lack of Hebrew authentication isn't relevant, the first church established them as part of the original. Let's be honest here, the Jews never accepted the New Testament as they didn't accept Jesus deity so it is very understandable why there are no Hebrew scrolls. Remember, Paul really focused on the Gentiles so naturally you are going to have more Greek scrolls than Hebrew when it comes to the New Testament. Try reading the Catholic bible and then come back and take book by book and deletion by deletion let's evaluate honestly and not use the typical lack of Hebrew argument that to me holds about as much water as a screen door.

Remember the bible as we know it today wasn't even started until 331 AD, have you studied all the different Christian beliefs that were floating around at that time. Want an eye opener take a look at the Armenian, and Gnostic Christians that challenged many of the teachings of the first church (the Catholic Church). Do you realize they had hundreds of letters to evaluate, what happened to all those letters that they rejected? Have you studied the history of the Catholic church and some of the evil things they have done during the dark ages, and those are the people that put together the first bible. Have you studied Roman history and it's affects on Christianity.

As for the Saturday sabbath, the majority of Christianity today recognizes Sunday is the end of the week for the majority of people, and if the Julian calendar had been printed differently Sunday would have been the seventh day, and we all would be on the same page.

Click to expand...

It is very relevant. The old testament scriptures were written in Hebrew not Greek. That is why the Apocrypha was rejected by the Hebrews and the protestant church's as shown in the last post. Sunday has always been the first day of the week in the scriptures not the "seventh day" which is the biblical Sabbath of God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Exodus 20:8-11; Romans 3:20. The new calendar change introduced in 1988 in Europe does not change the biblical days of the week. I see from our conversation there is nothing you have shared here that is supported in the scriptures. I do read history and it is true that there has been many abomination practiced in the church by evil people. That does not mean that God does not have good people in the church that have not done good things now does it? The scriptures always teach that his people are a remnant *Revelation 12:17. For me according to the scriptures the wheat and tares grow in the Church. God's wheat are all those who believe and follow God's Word. It is true we should believe and follow God's Word over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. The majority do the opposite. They follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God and this is what the scriptures teach in Matthew 15:3-9. According to the scripture we will all be judged by the Word of God we accept or reject come judgement day *John 12:47-48. It seems you do not have faith that God who is the creator of heaven and earth by the power of His Word is in control of His Word. Do you believe God is in control of His Word?

RBPerry said:

First of all, the Old Testament was written in both Hebrew and Aramaic, actually at the time of Christ Aramaic is the language most people spoke. Hebrew was primarily spoken by the Jews. There is no complete original copy of the Old Testament in Hebrew. So if you are going to throw out books that aren't written in Hebrew, start with Danial, it was written in Aramaic. The actual language of the New Testament was Koine a form of Greek. So as I'm sure you are aware Aramaic, Hebrew, and Koine have multiple words for the same word in English, and example is love, there are actually five different words for love. So how are we to expect completely accurate translations?
Here is the problem with taking the bible as being God's absolute word. If that were the case there never would have been arguments about what should and shouldn't be in the bible, but the arguments continued into the 16th century.
Did God give man free will? Of course He did, and humans are the ones who put the bible together. I believe the bible accurately gives us what God wants us to learn, know, and obey. God wrote the ten commandments, no question, He didn't mention Saturday in the forth commandment.
The biggest problem I have with theologians and bible scholars is they can't seem to look outside the box and evaluate what God may be doing today, and to me that is sad.
I will always consider Adventist my brothers and sisters in Christ even though many think differently. I was baptized in the Adventist church, indoctrinated into Adventism, and finally began to think for myself instead of just regurgitating what someone else was teaching. John Westley said it very well "Love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself and all the rest is just commentary."
That is why today we have hundreds of different denominations, they all interpret parts of the bible differently, if God had authored the bible, we would all be on the same page, and we are far from it.

Click to expand...

Maybe that is where we differ. I study God's Word for myself claiming God's promises that God will be my guide and teacher. I have never followed the path of indoctrination like some like to walk. Perhaps I am an outsider trusting in God alone to be my guide and teacher and relying solely on his Word alone to be a light unto my path and a lamp unto my feet walking a way that is dark and narrow I know He is my guide. It is a path that has brought me great peace. I was blind and now because of Him I see. I was deaf but now he makes me hear. He tells me it is those who say they see but do not see and those who say they now hear that do not hear. They think themselves rich but do not see they are naked and poor. He is knocking at the door but they will not let him in. The teachers and scholars try to find God through their academia but cannot find him because their wisdom God turns into foolishness. It was the humble fisherman that God taught the truth of His Word but it was the scribes and Pharisees that walked around claiming to know God's Word yet they did not even know God through his Word or who it was they were talking to when they hung Him on the tree. If God is not our teacher dear friend we will never know what His Word means. No one loves God according to the scriptures by breaking his commandments.

Something to pray about I guess.

HIM said:

Sadly for you that does not make you right.

If you were fine with us agreeing to disagree you would of said nothing else. But you go on to insult and further your opinion. All which is your opinion with no evidence AT ALL within the text you shared.


The "His rest" in verse 4:1 is the same as the "His rest" in 3:18 which is the same as "the partaking of Christ" in verse 14. Which is the same as the "My rest" mentioned in 3:11. And this Rest that is His, the partaking of Christ is called the "Gospel" in verse 4:2. Context and grammar through the Holy Spirit dictate this not me.

Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Then the next verse shows us that some have entered into "his Rest" which is the Gospel, the partaking of Christ. And als that it was available to enter since the beginning of time. Because the works for His Rest the partaking of Christ, the Gospel were finished from the foundation of the world. Verse 4 goes on to say that He, God spake in a certain place. THERE IS ONLY ONE PLACE in which GOD Spoke of the Sabbath. THAT PLACE WAS Mt Sinia. Ex 20:1.

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT?
BECAUSE GOD TELLS US IN SCRIPTURE.
Exod 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,


Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

AS YOU NOTICED above the text through sentence structure and grammar tell us that he speaks again of the Seventh Day if we enter into His rest, the partaking of Christ which is the Gospel.

TWO things mentioned in verse 5. The speaking again of the Seventh Day and the Rest we are to enter which is the Gospel. To say they are the same is to destroy the grammar of the text as the Holy Spirit has wrote it.

I suggest refraining from making comments like this.
To what end does saying such accomplish?

Typically all it does is alienate due to the fact it is nothing more than a subjective insult implying one does not study the Bible, nor have they looked at what you posted.

Click to expand...

Sorry dear friend all your doing here is repeating yourself without addressing the problems already brought up in regards to your interpretations earlier. This post has already been addressed in detail through the scriptures many times already. Your mistake here as has already been shown in contest that defines "MY REST" to not being the gospel but God's rest at the foundation of the world where God blessed and made holy the "seventh day" of creation as spoken in Genesis 2:1-3. The topic of conversation is that no one enters into the "seventh day" Sabbath rest if they do not believe the gospel. This is the warning given in Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. There is not one scripture that you have provided in your post that I have already responded to here and elsewhere that shows biblically that "GOD'S REST - MY REST" is the gospel the "MY REST" (God's rest) is what is entered into by believing the gospel. Can you see the difference? These are Gods' Word not mine as shown in Hebrews 4:1-5 which links directly to Genesis 2:1-3.

There is also no reference to Mt Sinai at all in any of Hebrews 3 or Hebrews 4. Hebrews 4:3-5 specifically says [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest (GOD'S REST; HIS REST v1), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST (GOD'S REST): ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE (GENSIS 2:1-3) OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS. [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST (GOD'S REST being the seventh day Sabbath of creation v3-5).

The context of "MY REST" (GOD'S REST) is provided in Hebrews 4:1-5 and the rest being spoken of is "God's REST" defined at creation in v3-5 as the "seventh day Sabbath". The rest here being spoken of however directly links to the Gospel as those who do not believe the gospel do not enter in to God's rest (the seventh day Sabbath) and those who do believe enter in. We enter into God's seventh day Sabbath rest (Sabbath) by believing the gospel.....

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week and those who did not enter into God’s rest (Sabbath) did not do so because they did not believe and follow God’s Word (the gospel). The CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD (the Gospel that was preached unto them as well as unto us, with those of us entering into God’s Sabbath rest!

The reference in v3-5 is to "God's REST" in creation from the foundation of the world at at the finish of creation and God's rest on the SEVENTH DAY. This is a reference to GENESIS 2:1-3 not Mt Sinai as your claiming in your post here.

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and HE RESTED (GOD'S REST) [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; KEEP SABBATH] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: BECAUSE THAT IN IT HE HAD RESTED (GOD'S REST) [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

Continuing to v9

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Who do you think blessed and made Holy the "seventh day" of creation and how did he do it? *GENESIS 2:1-3. Hebrews 4:3-5 is a reference to the foundation of the world and the seventh day Sabbath rest. Not to Mt Sinai like you are claiming. Your reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or teach.

I believe your interpretation is back the front and not following grammer structure, if we follow exactly what the scriptures teach. They are teaching that no one enters into Gods rest defined as the "seventh day Sabbath from creation (foundation of the world)" if they do not believe and follow the gospel.

Sorry dear friend we will have to agree to disagree. Also, my apologies if you have read my posts with bad intentions or in a negative way as it was not my purpose or intention. I am only trying to be honest in regards to sharing the scriptures so pray you might forgive me if my posts ever come across in a negative way as they are only sent in love and as a help.

God bless.

RBPerry said:

Let's take a deeper look into the Saturday thing. The only known calendar I believe was the Sumerian calendar that divided a year into 12 lunar months of 29 or 30 days. This was most likely the only calendar being used at the time God wrote the ten commandments. This leaves a real problem with Saturday doesn't it since they didn't divide months into seven day weeks. So common sense dictates that Saturday as you know it would actually change, meaning, you don't know what day God was talking about because no one used the seven day calendar back then. His commandment states clearly, work six days, the seventh is a day of rest.
The Adventist are basing their belief on Mrs. White's vision, and that is very weak to say the least.
What the Adventist have done is helped divide Christianity further with the legalist beliefs that have nothing to do with salvation or Christianity in general.
So why don't you go back in history from the giving of the ten commandments and show me how you know anyone of the days of the week are actually the day God spoke of. Was He talking about a seven day cycle with no names attached to each day?
You accuse me of not wanting to submit to God's law. Do you understand what legalism is? It is true I'm not a fundamentalist, but living my life according to what I believe the Holy Spirit wants me to live is critically important to me as it should be with all Christians. I just don't buy into man made rules that aren't supported by scripture. Saturday sabbath, drinking alcohol, eating meat, women wearing makeup, drinking coffee, and on and on.
You and I live in the same state, probably one of the most liberal states in the US. I have some Adventist friends up in the Browns Valley area, as well as the Shingle Town area, too bad the Big Wheels burnt down, rumor had it the Adventist didn't like the bar there. I lived in Shingle Town in the early 50s

Click to expand...

You have a lot of claims and theories here unsupported by any evidence. You do know that God's calendar was different to the pagans ones right? It was based on the bible and Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. The JEWS have kept the Sabbath unbroken for 1000's of years and the seventh day Sabbath is simply a 7 day weekly cycle which is simply every seven days right? JESUS was keeping the Sabbath in his day as were the Apostles after him and God's people all through time to this very present day. The type of faith you are promoting is one we are warned about in the scriptures from JAMES in James 2:18-26 which is not a biblical one. It's the same faith that those who came to JESUS at his coming had where JESUS says depart from me you who practice iniquity (sin) I never knew you *Matthew 7:21-23.

Something to pray about.

RBPerry said:

This has been an interesting thread, and I have nothing more to add. I wish you all the best and that God will bless you in everything you do. We are all part of one body, the body of Christ, and the body has been so divided for so long and it is a shame. Ask the average Christian what is the seventh day of their week, most will say Sunday because that is how most live their lives, working Monday through Friday and sometimes Saturday, and resting on Sunday.

Click to expand...

The reason the scriptures teach that BABYLON is fallen in the book of Revelation is because the Christianity has departed the Word of God in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Revelation 18:1-5 is a call to God's people to come out from following these teachings and return to the pure Word of God. JESUS says that the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him most worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. This means there is no unity between truth and error, good and evil. There is only unity of the Christian body in the truth of God's Word and that is what God is calling us into.

Hope this is helpful.