Did Billy Graham’s gospel give people a bum steer?

Dave L

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Jesus said whoever believes has eternal life. So when did people become saved in the typical Billy Graham crusade? I think God must have saved them while hearing the preached word or sometime before they stood up to go forward. Had they not believed (had salvation), they would not have followed Billy’s instructions.

But the bum steer came when Billy challenged them to decide for Christ. (They already had salvation ((believed)) or they would not have stood up and gone forward.) But this decision blinded many from trusting in Christ directly for their salvation. And had them trusting in their decision. Some call this “decisional Regeneration”. Similar to “Baptismal Regeneration”. Others simply call it having faith in your faith instead of having faith in Christ.

No doubt Billy processed many believers through his crusades. But he also turned many eyes away from Christ back onto their decision that supposedly saved them.

The gospel in the New Testament was not a job offer paying dividends in salvation. It was an announcement (preaching) that whoever believes already has eternal life. And if they are one of these who believe, they should seek baptism and repent from their sins. Repentance and baptism don’t save. They must have salvation or they would not believe in Christ enough to do that.
 
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So when did people become saved in the typical Billy Graham crusade? I think God must have saved them while hearing the preached word or sometime before they stood up to go forward.

It was an announcement (preaching) that whoever believes already has eternal life. And if they are one of these who believe, they should seek baptism and repent from their sins.
I think a lot of misunderstanding originates from confusing justification with salvation. So, let's forget about justification for a moment, even though it's very important. Let's see what the NT says about how and when salvation takes place. The following verses are relevant:

2Co 7:10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Conclusion: Salvation requires repentance.

Phl 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Conclusion: Salvation requires obedience.

2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Conclusion: Salvation requires sanctification / holiness.

Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Conclusion: Salvation will be awarded at the 2nd coming of Christ.

1Pe 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Conclusion: Salvation will be awarded in the last time.

1Pe 2:2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

Conclusion: Salvation requires growth.

Jde 1:3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Conclusion: Salvation requires contending for the faith.

Rev 19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God;

Conclusion: Salvation will be awarded in the last time.

Summing up: Salvation is a process. It may start while hearing the preached word. But it requires a lifetime of repentance, obedience, holiness, and growth. Salvation is awarded at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Now I'll go to the teaching of Jesus himself, which reinforces the above conclusions:

Mat 10:22 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

Mat 24:13 “But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Mar 13:13 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Mar 16:16 “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

And do not forget the Great Commission:

Mat 28:18-20

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
 
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Dave L

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I think a lot of misunderstanding originates from confusing justification with salvation. So, let's forget about justification for a moment, even though it's very important. Let's see what the NT says about how and when salvation takes place. The following verses are relevant:

2Co 7:10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Conclusion: Salvation requires repentance.

Phl 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Conclusion: Salvation requires obedience.

2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Conclusion: Salvation requires sanctification / holiness.

Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Conclusion: Salvation will be awarded at the 2nd coming of Christ.

1Pe 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Conclusion: Salvation will be awarded in the last time.

1Pe 2:2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

Conclusion: Salvation requires growth.

Jde 1:3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Conclusion: Salvation requires contending for the faith.

Rev 19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God;

Conclusion: Salvation will be awarded in the last time.

Summing up: Salvation is a process. It may start while hearing the preached word. But it requires a lifetime of repentance, obedience, holiness, and growth. Salvation is awarded at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Now I'll go to the teaching of Jesus himself, which reinforces the above conclusions:

Mat 10:22 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

Mat 24:13 “But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Mar 13:13 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Mar 16:16 “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

And do not forget the Great Commission:

Mat 28:18-20

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
The bottom line is the new birth produces all of the works involved in salvation. But it's the new birth (cause of belief) that is salvation's beginning that ends with the body in the resurrection.
 
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Jesus said whoever believes has eternal life. So when did people become saved in the typical Billy Graham crusade? I think God must have saved them while hearing the preached word or sometime before they stood up to go forward. Had they not believed (had salvation), they would not have followed Billy’s instructions.

But the bum steer came when Billy challenged them to decide for Christ. (They already had salvation ((believed)) or they would not have stood up and gone forward.) But this decision blinded many from trusting in Christ directly for their salvation. And had them trusting in their decision. Some call this “decisional Regeneration”. Similar to “Baptismal Regeneration”. Others simply call it having faith in your faith instead of having faith in Christ.

No doubt Billy processed many believers through his crusades. But he also turned many eyes away from Christ back onto their decision that supposedly saved them.

The gospel in the New Testament was not a job offer paying dividends in salvation. It was an announcement (preaching) that whoever believes already has eternal life. And if they are one of these who believe, they should seek baptism and repent from their sins. Repentance and baptism don’t save. They must have salvation or they would not believe in Christ enough to do that.

Why you assume they were saved to begin with?
 
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Andrewn

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The bottom line is the new birth produces all of the works involved in salvation. But it's the new birth (cause of belief) that is salvation's beginning that ends with the body in the resurrection.
Yes, justification / new birth is salvation's beginning that may or may not lead to salvation in the last time. The latter depends on enduring to the end: repentance, obedience, holiness, and growth
 
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Dave L

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Yes, justification / new birth is salvation's beginning that may or may not lead to salvation in the last time. The latter depends on enduring to the end: repentance, obedience, holiness, and growth
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

If you believe you can lose your salvation, you cannot believe you are saved and salvation is by faith....
 
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Andrewn

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Jesus says so.
No, he didn't. You haven't refuted any of the verses I quoted.

There is only one way in which OSAS may logically work: if you believe in some sort of an after death purgatory.

Since Calvinists do not believe in this, then OSAS does _not_ work. And the only alternative that agrees with NT teaching is Arminianism.
 
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Dave L

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No, he didn't. You haven't refuted any of the verses I quoted.

There is only one way in which OSAS may logically work: if you believe in some sort of an after death purgatory.

Since Calvinists do not believe in this, then OSAS does _not_ work. And the alternative is Arminianism.

“And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”” John 3:36 (NLT)
 
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Dave L

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No, he didn't. You haven't refuted any of the verses I quoted.

There is only one way in which OSAS may logically work: if you believe in some sort of an after death purgatory.

Since Calvinists do not believe in this, then OSAS does _not_ work. And the only alternative that agrees with NT teaching is Arminianism.
You cannot have faith God saved you if you think you can be lost.
 
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“And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”” John 3:36 (NLT)
Thank you for quoting Joh 3:36. What does this verse say?

1) He who trusts in the Son has eternal life.

Conclusion: One who trusts Jesus is born again.

2) He who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Conclusion: One who obeys Jesus will be saved.

This in agreement with what I wrote before.

You cannot have faith God saved you if you think you can be lost.
I have faith that God has justified me, made me a member born again in the family, and that He will save me in the last time.

Phi 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
 
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Dave L

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Thank you for quoting Joh 3:36. What does this verse say?

1) He who trusts in the Son has eternal life.

Conclusion: One who trusts Jesus is born again.

2) He who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Conclusion: One who obeys Jesus will be saved.

This in agreement with what I wrote before.


I have faith that God has justified me, made me a member born again in the family, and that He will save me in the last time.

Phi 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
But, faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (salvation).
 
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But, faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (salvation).
This misunderstanding is based on the KJV. The Greek word "pistis" and to some degree even the English "faith" can refer to belief, or to trust, or to faithfulness. In this particular verse, it refers to "faithfulness" and this is how it's translated in almost all modern versions:

Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The law is not against such things.

But faith is a gift of God:

Ephesians 2:8–9 by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
 
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Dave L

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This misunderstanding is based on the KJV. The Greek word "pistis" and to some degree even the English "faith" can refer to belief, or to trust, or to faithfulness. In this particular verse, it refers to "faithfulness" and this is how it's translated in almost all modern versions:

Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The law is not against such things.
It's the same Greek word and remains a fruit of the Holy Spirit (being saved before you can have faith).
 
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It's the same Greek word and remains a fruit of the Holy Spirit (being saved before you can have faith).
I don't really understand your comment. We need to believe and trust in Christ before being born again. And we need to be faithful to Christ after we are born again.

Unfortunately, it's the same Greek word.
 
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Dave L

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I don't really understand your comment. We need to believe and trust in Christ before being born again. And we need to be faithful to Christ after we are born again.

Unfortunately, it's the same Greek word.
Dead people cannot discern Christ let alone trust in him. They have only their flesh and idols the call Christ they force themselves to trust in.

Here's how it works.
“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
 
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Dead people cannot discern Christ let alone trust in him. They have only their flesh and idols the call Christ they force themselves to trust in.
I agree. I already said that faith is a gift of God in post #13.
 
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