Believing In The Actual Jesus

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1Cor 9:1 . . Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?

2 Tim 1:12 . . I know whom I have believed

Paul could honestly say those things because he experienced a close encounter with the real Jesus. (Acts 9:3-6, 22:6-10, and 26:12-18)

Well, to be honest about it; I have never once experienced a close encounter with the real Jesus like Paul did. So I cannot attest, beyond a shadow of sensible doubt, that the Jesus I believe in is authentic.
_
 

Albion

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1Cor 9:1 . . Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?

2 Tim 1:12 . . I know whom I have believed

Paul could honestly say those things because he experienced a close encounter with the real Jesus. (Acts 9:3-6, 22:6-10, and 26:12-18)

Well, to be honest about it; I have never once experienced a close encounter with the real Jesus like Paul did. So I cannot attest, beyond a shadow of sensible doubt, that the Jesus I believe in is authentic.
_
Not a problem. That is why we and all other people throughout the ages have the Holy Scriptures, a divine revelation. As other posters here will say, those who have not seen Jesus in the flesh are still every bit as much called and capable of being made disciples.

The question then seems to be "Has the Bible not been persuasive for you even though you've read it and meditated on its messages?" If so, why do you think that is?
 
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John 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

How do you know for sure that an actual Jesus actually said that? And if an actual Jesus actually did say that; how do you know for sure that what he said is actually reliable?

It ain't what you know that gets you into trouble;
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
(Mark Twain)
_
 
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Albion

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How do you know for sure that an actual Jesus actually said that? And if an actual Jesus actually did say that; how do you know for sure that what he said is actually reliable?
_
The weight of the evidence. It's been assessed innumerable times, with the skeptics being the losers again and again. That being the case, it simply cannot be that the whole thing is fiction (which some have tried to claim from time to time).
 
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WebersHome

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The weight of the evidence.

You have evidence that solidly proves for sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that an actual Jesus actually said John 20:29?

And evidence that solidly proves for sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that what he is alleged to have said is actually true?
_
 
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In my opinion, people claiming to be Christians are not true people of faith until they are able to stand up and honestly admit that many of the things they believe cannot be proven true in a court of law; or any other venue for that matter.
_
 
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Albion

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Well, what difference does it make if they say that?

There is quite enough evidence to make it convincing, so if we cannot "prove" in a court of law that Jesus was crucified (for example), neither can we "prove" that Julius Caesar was stabbed or that Hannibal crossed the Alps. Yet everyone believes that those events happened and were not just inventions and never actually happened.
 
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...Well, to be honest about it; I have never once experienced a close encounter with the real Jesus like Paul did. So I cannot attest, beyond a shadow of sensible doubt, that the Jesus I believe in is authentic.
_

Well, is the issue really about knowing Jesus is real, or about believing what he said? We can know what Bible Jesus has said and so we can know him. And in that way, we have possibility to believe him or disagree with him. I understand that everyone can doubt that maybe he never was and said anything. However, we can be sure that there are the saying in the Bible and I think the real important question is, do you agree with Jesus. Do you understand that his message is good? For example, he said we should love others as our self, does that depend on are you sure he existed?
 
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Hazelelponi

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1Cor 9:1 . . Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?

2 Tim 1:12 . . I know whom I have believed

Paul could honestly say those things because he experienced a close encounter with the real Jesus. (Acts 9:3-6, 22:6-10, and 26:12-18)

Well, to be honest about it; I have never once experienced a close encounter with the real Jesus like Paul did. So I cannot attest, beyond a shadow of sensible doubt, that the Jesus I believe in is authentic.
_

I had an encounter... that doesn't guarantee it was "the real Jesus" in and of itself.. you still have to weigh encounter with what we know, with what the apostles said, what other Christians know and experience, and how, most of all, all of it expresses itself with the scriptures that came before...

In short, to be honest, the experience is actually the lesser, and the witness of scripture the greater when it comes to knowing Christ...

Galatians 1:8

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse."
 
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WebersHome

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Faith is believin' somethin' that ain't so.
(Mark Twain)

People all 'round the globe are exemplifying Twain's observation.

Muslims believe the Koran is 100% reliable. Hindus believe the Vedas are 100% reliable. Mormons believe the Book Of Mormon is 100% reliable. Jews believe the Talmud is 100% reliable. Christians believe the New Testament is 100% reliable. Buddhists believe Dharma is 100% reliable.

The thing is, religions that deal with paranormal activity (a.k.a. the supernatural) are beyond the scope of empirical evidence.

Every so often I get asked how I know that my religion is right. My answer is: I don't know if it's right. Then of course they want to know how it is that I believe in my religion when I don't know whether it's right.

That's a fair inquiry. Most of the people who ask me those kinds of questions are genuine; they're not trying to trip me up and make a fool out of me. They are honestly curious. So I tell them, in so many words, that though I don't know if my religion is right, my conscience tells me it is; in other words: I cannot shake the conviction that the religion I believe in is right.

Why does anybody believe what they believe? Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Bahá'í, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Catholic, Baptist, Judaism, Voodoo, Wiccan, Jain, Druze, Native American, etc, etc, etc. The answer? Because it grips their heart-- the core of their being --which is very different than persuading someone with logic, and reasoning.

People brought into a religion by logic and reasoning can be taken away from it by logic and reasoning. But someone whose heart is gripped by their religion, is not so easily removed regardless of how strong the opposition's argument

I've heard it said, by more than one pundit, that voters typically select political candidates based upon how they feel about them; and then use thinking to defend their choices; which is doubtless whey there is so much debating in the sphere of religion. When people defend their religion, it's likely they're actually protecting their feelings about their religion; and of course we all know that emotions are incoherent.

For example: back in the early 1980s,I attended a special class called "How To Witness To Jehovah's Witnesses" taught by a lecturer who had been in that system for nearly three decades.

The former Witness didn't train us to hammer JWs in a debate because even if you best them scripture for scripture, they will not give up on the Watchtower Society. Their unflinching premise is that the Society is right even when it appears to be totally wrong. They are thoroughly convinced in their own hearts that the Society is the voice of God, while the oppositions' voices have no more validity than that of a squeaky little gerbil.

It's said that the pen is mightier than the sword. Well; it's been my personal observation that, in matters related to religion, the heart is mightier than the mind.
_
 
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Albion

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Faith is believin' somethin' that ain't so.
(Mark Twain)
Very well, that's one use of the word. But to understand the religious, the Christian, the theological, the scriptural, use of the term, it is necessary to keep the two separate.
 
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WebersHome

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In short, to be honest, the experience is actually the lesser, and the witness of scripture the greater when it comes to knowing Christ...

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse

Quoting your religion's beliefs to defend your religion's beliefs is called circular reasoning. It's sort of like a judge acquitting a prisoner based upon the accused man saying he didn't do it.
_
 
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Hazelelponi

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Quoting your religion's beliefs to defend your religion's beliefs is called circular reasoning. It's sort of like a judge acquitting a prisoner based upon the accused man saying he didn't do it.
_

???

This is in General Theology, a decidedly Christian-only, portion of the forum.

My assumption therefore, was that you wanted Christianity's stance on the topic you opened up for Christian discussion.

Exactly how do you want Christians to respond if not in accordance with our faith?
 
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Hazelelponi

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The guidance you seek is located in post No.13
_

So, AFTER my post (post #12).

P.S. I've never claimed clairvoyance...

I'm out... enjoy your thread.
 
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ViaCrucis

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We meet the "actual Jesus" every time we receive God's Word and Sacraments. It is the actual Jesus in the Eucharist. It is the actual Jesus in the preaching of the Gospel. It is the actual Jesus in the word of Holy Scripture. It is the actual Jesus in the water of Holy Baptism. Etc.

It's actually Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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We meet the "actual Jesus" every time we receive God's Word and Sacraments. It is the actual Jesus in the Eucharist. It is the actual Jesus in the preaching of the Gospel. It is the actual Jesus in the word of Holy Scripture. It is the actual Jesus in the water of Holy Baptism. Etc.

In matters pertaining to paranormal activity; we can claim as truth whatever we want because there is, as yet, no way for anybody in the natural world to observe the world of the supernatural to determine whether we know what we're talking about.
_
 
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