Is the thousand years of Revelation chapter 20 symbolic?

ewq1938 said:

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

You are confusing the fire which burns the heavens and the Earth with the Revelation 20 fire that only burns up people. While the fire which can burn the heavens is NOT literal fire, the fire from God the Father in Revelation 20 is literal and kills literal people.

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You are trying to say the fire of 2 Peter 3 is not literal? Why is it compared directly to the watery destruction of the global flood in Noah's day then?

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

The fact that this fiery destruction will happen at the Lord's second coming is established in verses 3 and 4. In verses 5 and 6 Peter references the global flood of Noah's day that destroyed the earth. Then in verse 7 Peter said "By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire". Why would he compare something spiritual "by the same word" to something physical?

Notice in verse 7 that he said "By the same word...". That phrase means he was saying his reference to the destruction by fire should be understood in the same sense as the historical destruction by water, which means that the destruction by fire would be physical and global just like the destruction by water long ago.

Jesus said there would be physical destruction at His coming that would be like the physical destruction of Noah's day as well.

Matthew 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

So, there is no basis whatsoever for seeing the fire of 2 Peter 3 as being spiritual. Also, Peter said in 2 Peter 3:13 that because of what he said about the burning up of the heavens and earth we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth. It makes sense that there would be a new heavens and new earth if the current heavens and current earth will be burned up.

Your error here is assuming I think the sword is literal and then accusing me of it. This is known as a strawman fallacy.

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You can only blame yourself for indicating the destruction would be by the sword without giving any indication that you meant figuratively by the sword. What was I supposed to think?

I only refer to the sword as a sword because the text does. The symbolism of a sword is vastly different than fire.

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The symbolism does not have to resemble what it symbolizes in appearance. For example, the dragon with seven heads and ten horns. Does Satan look like a dragon with seven heads and ten horns in reality? I'm pretty sure he doesn't. Another example would be the woman (harlot) who rides on the beast with seven heads and ten horns? Does what that represents in reality resemble a woman riding a beast with seven heads and ten horns? Of course not.

I believe Jesus symbolically destroying people with a sword symbolically refers to the fact that He is the Word (John 1) and the sword of the Spirit is the word of God (Eph 6:17) and He will come to take His vengeance by authority of the Word of God which is all about Him.

If you wanted to describe killing someone with fire, why use the imagery of a sword? Would you use the imagery of a sword to depict killing someone with water or ice? A sword in the mouth is symbolic of words. He likely shouts at the people and they die.

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See above. I don't believe the sword is intended to symbolize His method of destruction at all. I believe it symbolizes His authority as the King of kings and Lord of lords to take vengeance on His enemies.

Your insistence that the symbols must resemble what they symbolize is a big mistake on your part. I gave examples where symbols in Revelation do not resemble what they symbolize in reality. Can you take that information and reconsider how you go about interpreting the symbols?

BABerean2 said:

In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 the Apostle Paul reveals that Christ returns "in flaming fire", and the fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.

In 2 Timothy 4:1, Paul reveals that Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing, and the judgment occurs at the end of Revelation 20.

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Satan is also loosed after a thousand years in Revelation 20, I am glad you concur with the wording of Revelation 20. Now about the point Satan is bound first, prior to the fire and judgment. Also Jesus Christ is physically ruling in Jerusalem, while Satan is bound. Important details that frame a solid picture that the Lord's Day was kept in God's promise to Abraham to bless all the nations on earth using physical Israel.

BABerean2 said:

Can you explain why the beast "ascends" out of the bottomless pit in Revelation 11?
Rev 11:7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.

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Satan comes and goes all the time. Could it be the end of the 42 months and time is up according to God's plan. Everything is right on schedule.

Spiritual Jew said:

But 2 Peter 3:3-13 makes it clear that the physical destruction will be by fire and as an amil, I believe Rev 20:9 refers to the same event and it talks about fire coming down from heaven to destroy God's enemies.

To think that He will have a literal double-edged sword coming out of His mouth when He comes is just a case of a complete lack of discernment on your part because you are not able to recognize obvious symbolic language even within a highly symbolic book like Revelation. Do you think the sword of the Holy Spirit is a literal sword, also?

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Do you think the fire is literal? Why is it not symbolic in your theology? Do you get to pick and choose the symbolism?

No I do not see every word in Revelation as a symbol, but yes there are some symbolic words. No we cannot take words out of context and prove a private interpretation theology. Even one that millions believe in. Even if it has been around "forever" and thought up by Satan. If it goes against God's Word in the slightest it cannot come from God. Explain to me how Jesus Christ physically reigns on earth for a thousand years is less literal than fire destroying the earth. Do you know how many verses where fire is used symbolically of judgment? I mean some here have pointed out where "1000" is used symbolically. Can we be consistent?

Timtofly said:

Do you think the fire is literal? Why is it not symbolic in your theology? Do you get to pick and choose the symbolism?

No I do not see every word in Revelation as a symbol, but yes there are some symbolic words. No we cannot take words out of context and prove a private interpretation theology.

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Isaiah prophesied and revealed; Isaiah 33:v.10-14:
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.

11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.

12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.

13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

JESUS said: Luke 12:v.49
49 I am come to send FIRE on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? (What kind of fire?)

2Thessalonians 1:v.7-12
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

ewq1938 said:

I believe it is in the pit because it's spiritual leaders are demons and fallen angels etc and they ascend from the pit and form that kingdom/government at Satan's bidding and will be led by the antichrist.

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What about verse 11?

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth. It had two horns like those of a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.

Would this not be the pit, opened in the 5th Trumpet?

Both the FP and Satan come out of Satan's plan to deceive the nations. The FP is the end process of the first beast from the prophecy of Daniel. Daniel mentions in Daniel 11 how this relationship between Satan and the FP worked as the FP is the beast that was; The Greek king set up by Satan. Was not; Has been dead for over 2000 years. Yet is to come out of the pit; This FP is human but given the ability to go to and from sheol using the abyss unlocked in the 5th Trumpet. Humans will marvel at his ability and power granted to him by Satan.

Oseas said:

You quoted Genesis 4:v.1, and I quoted 1 John 3:v.12 in my post 1247 above. You should tell to all of us, what you meant with the verse you quoted, whose verse is not unknown of us all. So I will do a comment, and asking you and all: Who lied? Eve or John the Apostle?

Gen 4:1 - Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the LORD.

John 3:v.12 - Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one (Cain was of the Devil because was born from the Devil, was born of the father of lie), and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Who lied? Eve or John the Apostle?

What did Eva say when was Abel born? She said nothing, was speechless. Why? Abel was of the Lord, really, but Eve stayed/remained in silent. If Eve had said that she acquired a man from the Lord when Abel was born, it would have been written just like in the case of Cain. See Genesis 4:v.25-26 to confirm.

Eva lied when she said she acquired Cain from the Lord, it was a lie, she acquired Cain from the Devil, Cain was born from the Devil, Cain was a seed of the Devil, not a seed of God.

Only for clarify, who really were born of God, or, in other words, who really were God's seed, they were Abel, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared , Enoch, and Enoch begat Methuselah, and walked with God: and he was not; for God took him, Methuselah begat Lamech, and Lamech begat Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.

It's it.

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Eve did not lie. Cain was born in the Garden before sin. Cain was of Satan because Cain allowed sin into the Garden. Sin was at the door of Paradise, and God commanded Cain not to let sin in, but Cain not only disobeyed God, but was the first murderer. You are adding pagan thought into the text. 1 John 3:8

8 The person who keeps on sinning is from the Adversary, because from the very beginning the Adversary has kept on sinning. It was for this very reason that the Son of God appeared, to destroy these doings of the Adversary.

All sinners are the seed of Satan because they keep sinning and refuse redemption. Satan sows human seeds into the world is symbolic for this phenomenon. Cain cannot be born from Angels. Angels have no ability to literally have offspring. That is pagan Satan worship that teaches such concepts. All lies..

There was no sin period when Cain and Abel were born in the Garden prior to Adam's disobedience. Satan was not even cast out for rebellion nor were the angels bound for following him, yet. That was closer to the Flood when the sons of God and the stars (angels), more than likely 1/3 rd of each group rebelled. We know less about those rebel sons of God than Satan's rebellion other than the point all who rebelled were destroyed in the Flood. Satan's angels were bound in sheol at the time of the Flood.

Spiritual Jew said:

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

The fact that this fiery destruction will happen at the Lord's second coming is established in verses 3 and 4. In verses 5 and 6 Peter references the global flood of Noah's day that destroyed the earth. Then in verse 7 Peter said "By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire". Why would he compare something spiritual "by the same word" to something physical?

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Pointing out the fire is well and good, but what about the Lord's Day and the length?

8 Moreover, dear friends, do not ignore this: with the Lord, one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some people think of slowness; on the contrary, he is patient with you; for it is not his purpose that anyone should be destroyed, but that everyone should turn from his sins.
10 However, the Day of the Lord will come “like a thief.” On that Day the heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will melt and disintegrate, and the earth and everything in it will be burned up.

Peter says do not ignore the point this day is 1000 years. When Christ as the Lamb comes at the Second Coming it is the 6th seal prior to the first Trumpet. The Heavens as we know it will be eternally changed. No more 14 billion year old universe. That is just a mathematical delusion of Satan. Revelation 6:12-14

12 Then I watched as he broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, the sun turned black as sackcloth worn in mourning, and the full moon became blood-red.
13 The stars fell from heaven to earth just as a fig tree drops its figs when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

We see 3 things:

1) The brightness of God on the throne changes the perspective of the sun and moon.

2) The stars are not balls of fire, but Angels landing on the earth as impactful as a fig leaf.

3) The universe we thought was there was a giant "video projection" That rolled back like a theater curtain.

Yes, Peter was correct in the "heavens" would be gone first. Satan's deception of a universe gone in seconds. The heavens God created are still there in tact as the temple of God, Paradise. The throne is still there and God is sitting on it. However the end of reality is after Peter's Lord's Day, that Peter describes as 1000 years. John confirms in Revelation 20 it is 1000 years.

Notice the logic of all burning up at the end of the 1000 years? What is the point of spending 1000 years if all is burned up on the first 2 seconds? Peter tells us God is patient and total fire change is the last 2 seconds. And the fire from the throne that burns up Satan and his army at Gog Megog, is not the total destruction. The GWT immediately commences, and then a new reality. And that reality will change around the throne, around Paradise, and around those on the earth. Paradise will become the New Jerusalem. It will be a whole different dimensional reality.

Timtofly said:

Eve did not lie. Cain was born in the Garden before sin. Cain was of Satan because Cain allowed sin into the Garden. Sin was at the door of Paradise, and God commanded Cain not to let sin in, but Cain not only disobeyed God, but was the first murderer. You are adding pagan thought into the text. 1 John 3:8

8 The person who keeps on sinning is from the Adversary, because from the very beginning the Adversary has kept on sinning. It was for this very reason that the Son of God appeared, to destroy these doings of the Adversary.

All sinners are the seed of Satan because they keep sinning and refuse redemption. Satan sows human seeds into the world is symbolic for this phenomenon. Cain cannot be born from Angels. Angels have no ability to literally have offspring. That is pagan Satan worship that teaches such concepts. All lies..

There was no sin period when Cain and Abel were born in the Garden prior to Adam's disobedience. Satan was not even cast out for rebellion nor were the angels bound for following him, yet. That was closer to the Flood when the sons of God and the stars (angels), more than likely 1/3 rd of each group rebelled. We know less about those rebel sons of God than Satan's rebellion other than the point all who rebelled were destroyed in the Flood. Satan's angels were bound in sheol at the time of the Flood.

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The question was: Who lied? Eve or John the Apostle?

You say: "Eve did not lie". So, according your interpretation who lied was John.

Timtofly said:

Notice the logic of all burning up at the end of the 1000 years? What is the point of spending 1000 years if all is burned up on the first 2 seconds? Peter tells us God is patient and total fire change is the last 2 seconds.

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There is fire in the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew 13.

There is fire at the judgment of the living in Matthew 25:31-46, and no mortals left at the end of the passage.

Paul said Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know Him, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Peter said there is fire on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief, in 2 Peter 3:10-13.

There is smoke of burning, in Revelation 18:18.

How many witnesses do you need?


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Oseas said:

You quoted Genesis 4:v.1, and I quoted 1 John 3:v.12 in my post 1247 above. You should tell to all of us, what you meant with the verse you quoted, whose verse is not unknown of us all. So I will do a comment, and asking you and all: Who lied? Eve or John the Apostle?

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Moses recorded Genesis 4:1. Moses did not lie.

If you are attempting to promote the "Satan's Seed" doctrine, you should understand it is not allowed on this forum.

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BABerean2 said:

Moses recorded Genesis 4:1. Moses did not lie.
If you are attempting to promote the "Satan's Seed" doctrine, you should understand it is not allowed on this forum..

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What I have posted has nothing to do with doctrine, but interpretation of Scriptures. John, the Apostle, said: 1John 3:v.10:-
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the Devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. All the sons of Devil are of the seed of Devil. John 8:v.42 - JESUS said to the Jews : If God were your Father, ye would love me: John 8:v.44 - 44 Ye are of your father the devil,... Cain is included.

If you have a Bible, you must study better and believe in Scriptures, believe in what JESUS said, believe in Him through the words of Him.

I am only interpreting Scriptures. "There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are One.

Oseas said:

The question was: Who lied? Eve or John the Apostle?

You say: "Eve did not lie". So, according your interpretation who lied was John.

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Neither lied. Sinning is the phenomenon of Satan. All who keep sinning are the seed of Satan. Satan did not impregnate billions of women to give birth to sinners. Cain was a sinner because he let sin into the Garden. Cain may never have stopped sinning, but Cain could not be killed, because God placed a mark on him, so the sons of God would leave him alone. Cain was not even punished like his father Adam who actually died physically and spiritually. John was not literally saying Cain was biologically of Satan, that would make Jesus a liar. Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25. Angels cannot procreate.

BABerean2 said:

There is fire in the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew 13.

There is fire at the judgment of the living in Matthew 25:31-46, and no mortals left at the end of the passage.

Paul said Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know Him, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Peter said there is fire on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief, in 2 Peter 3:10-13.

There is smoke of burning, in Revelation 18:18.

How many witnesses do you need?

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You can quote all of them, because they all point to different times with known events in between. They do not all happen in the first 2 seconds of the Second Coming.

A famous poster keeps asking are they literal wheat and tares? ie, are they literal wood and metal? Some understand symbolism and how God uses it in His Word. Others seem to just make up stuff willy nilly in a mocking and degradating manner, and think it is of God.

ewq1938 said:

The text disagrees:

Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

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You acknowledged that the sword is symbolic. So, now you're saying it's literal? Please make up your mind.

Timtofly said:

Do you think the fire is literal? Why is it not symbolic in your theology?

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Yes. Because it is compared directly to the flood of Noah's day.

Do you get to pick and choose the symbolism?

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We all pick and choose what we think is symbolic and what we think is literal.

Spiritual Jew said:

Yes. Because it is compared directly to the flood of Noah's day.

We all pick and choose what we think is symbolic and what we think is literal.

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I agree this reality will literally end. Some think it is just a "make over". Because they literally compare it to Noah's Flood instead of the end of reality as we can understand it. We can understand a Garden of animals and plants. We can understand a boat and human marriage. We cannot understand the NHNE, and that is why information is limited. Why humans reject a literal Lord's Day of 1000 years where Jesus Christ literally reigns from a literal Jerusalem is beyond me.

The New Jerusalem is going to obliterate Europe, Africa, and parts of Asia as it is 1,200 miles wide, 1,200 miles long, and 1,200 miles high. That is not the current physical Jerusalem, nor the one Jesus will physically rule from for 1000 years. The physics of today cannot describe the physics of the NHNE, even if John tried in Revelation 21-22. They say there is a solid chunk of iron and nickel worth trillions of dollars floating around in space. Can you image 12 even larger solid chunks of precious metal making up the New Jerusalem?

Timtofly said:

Others seem to just make up stuff willy nilly in a mocking and degradating manner, and think it is of God.

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When you point one finger at others, you have three fingers pointing back in your direction.


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Oseas said:

What I have posted has nothing to do with doctrine, but interpretation of Scriptures. John, the Apostle, said: 1John 3:v.10:-
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the Devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. All the sons of Devil are of the seed of Devil. John 8:v.42 - JESUS said to the Jews : If God were your Father, ye would love me: John 8:v.44 - 44 Ye are of your father the devil,... Cain is included.

If you have a Bible, you must study better and believe in Scriptures, believe in what JESUS said, believe in Him through the words of Him.

I am only interpreting Scriptures. "There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are One.

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Every human on the planet who does not follow the plan of God is following Satan.
It has nothing to do with genealogy.


1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


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