Faith Alone

GDL said:

Whose own quote?

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The original author of the thread.

d taylor said:

You make judgments against Gods way people receive Eternal Life. By saying it takes more than faith to receive Eternal Life.

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Are you saying we need only say we have faith, and no works are necessary? Answer the question please.

Jesus, preachers, and so forth tell us we must do many things, are they being judgmental? Is the bible being judgmental when it tells us what we must do? With your way of thinking there is no way we can be taught anything without simeone being judgmental towards us, and that is rediculous.

It is just as I told you, you are using the common "judgemental" thing as as false defense, while no one is being judgmental at all.

Francis Earl said:

The original author of the thread.

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Thanks!

Francis Earl said:

Philippians 2:12 says even those who have been obeying need to work out their salvation... because it isn't done yet

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Nicely stated.

And "work out" more precisely translated means to accomplish by work.

Kenny'sID said:

Are you saying we need only say we have faith, and no works are necessary? Answer the question please.

Jesus, preachers, and so forth tell us we must do many things, are they being judgmental? Is the bible being judgmental when it tells us what we must do? With your way of thinking there is no way we can be taught anything without simeone being judgmental towards us, and that is rediculous.

It is just as I told you, you are using the common "judgemental" thing as as false defense, while no one is being judgmental at all.

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How many times do i have to give you the answer for this question, I have answered this at least three times already. So you what my answer go to my previous reply's.

Romans 2:1-16 speaks a lot about judgement in the negative... yet there is also the awkward 1 Corinthians 2:15-16 assertion that those with the Spirit judge all things, because we have the mind of Christ...

It is thus plain that judgment isn't bad, it is a function of your understanding... if you are merely slandering and gossiping it is not useful, this part is quite bad... but if you are seeing what is wrong and attempting to guide them to correct it, what wrong is there in it?

Galatians 6:1-6 makes it clear we are to help each other.

The favorite verse of work based salvation people. James 2:20,26 that speaks of dead faith. So where that is the same as a dead Eternal Life.

Faith is not Eternal Life, faith is how we receive Eternal Life. Once received Eternal Life is like it says Eternal Life or Everlasting Life it does not end.

A believer can have dead faith, but that is not dead Eternal Life. So show a verse stating a believer can lose their Eternal Life and their Eternal Life dies and they become dead again.

d taylor said:

How many times do i have to give you the answer for this question, I have answered this at least three times already. So you what my answer go to my previous reply's.

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You really expect me to answer that, while you answer none of my questions?

No.

Danthemailman said:

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

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In Titus 2:11-14, it describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His free gift of salvation and participating in that training does nothing to earn it, but rather that it what it looks like to receive it. Furthermore, Titus 2:14 describes Christ's finished work of redemption by saying that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is what it looks like to believe in Christ's finished work of redemption. The verses that you cited all speak against trying to earn our salvation by our works, but that was never the reason why we are required to do good works. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so being trained by grace to obey God's law through faith is what Jesus saving us form living in transgression of God's law looks like, which absolutely does involve our participation.

Danthemailman said:

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

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Psalms 40:8 I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.”

God straightforwardly has made His will known through His law. Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is straightforwardly God's instructions for how to experientially know the Son. In In John 6:40, those who believe in the Son will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to enter into eternal life, then obey the commandments, so again obedience to God's commandments is what it looks like to believe in the Son and to know him.

BNR32FAN said:

Faith as in pistis which implies faithfulness, fidelity, loyalty, and trustworthiness, not faith as in a mere belief.

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Yes, the word means "persuasion," i.e. to be persuaded by God as to his will for our lives, and if persuaded, we will do what he says. If we truly believe God, and we believe in Jesus' sacrifice for our sins, then we have to believe (as in put in action) what the Scriptures teach with regard to why Jesus died.

He died to put sin to death in our lives so that we would no longer live under the control of sin but so we would now be slaves of righteousness. And we are slaves of the one we obey. If we obey sin, it ends in death. If we obey obedience, it results in righteousness, which ends in eternal life (Rom 6:1-23).

He died that we might no longer live for ourselves, but for him who gave his life up for us. The righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh. For, if we walk according to the flesh (in sin) we will die in our sins, not have eternal life with God (1 Pet 2:24; 2 Co 5:15; Rom 8:1-17).

If we claim to know God or to be in fellowship with him but we walk in the darkness (in sin) or we don't obey his commands, then we are liars who don't live by the truth (1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6).

(Lu 9:23-26; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-17; Eph 4:17-24; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6; Gal 5:16-21; Eph 5:3-6; Gal 6:7-8; Rom 2:6-8; 1 Pet 2:24; 2 Co 5:15, 21; 1 Co 6:19-20).

Biblical faith is described all throughout the New Testament. Works of the Spirit are required as part of that biblical faith. If we do not walk in obedience to the Lord, but we live in sin, instead, we don't have faith in Jesus Christ. We are all going to reap what we sow. If we sow to please the flesh, from the flesh we will reap destruction. If we sow to please the Spirit, from the Spirit we will reap eternal life (Gal 6:7-8; Rom 2:6-8; 2 Co 5:10; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-17; Lu 9:23-26, etc.).

Soyeong said:

In Titus 2:11-14, it describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His free gift of salvation and participating in that training does nothing to earn it, but rather that it what it looks like to receive it. Furthermore, Titus 2:14 describes Christ's finished work of redemption by saying that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is what it looks like to believe in Christ's finished work of redemption. The verses that you cited all speak against trying to earn our salvation by our works, but that was never the reason why we are required to do good works. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so being trained by grace to obey God's law through faith is what Jesus saving us form living in transgression of God's law looks like, which absolutely does involve our participation.



Psalms 40:8 I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.”

God straightforwardly has made His will known through His law and obedience to it is what it looks like to believe in the Son. Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is straightforwardly God's instructions for how to experientially know the Son. In In John 6:40, those who believe in the Son will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to enter into eternal life, then obey the commandments, so again obedience to God's commandments is what it looks like to believe in the Son and to know him.

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Amen and Amen!

BNR32FAN said:

Finish reading the message. He doesn’t stop at verse 23 the message stops at verse 27. You who do lawlessness. Does that sound like not believing? No they didn’t act upon His words. He says this like 2 sentences after the verses you quoted.

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Sin is in regard to how we live our lives, so believing that Jesus is our Savior from sin is also in regard to how we live our lives, which is why there are many verses that equate obedience with believing, so there is no difference. This is also why every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is an example of people taking actions. Our beliefs are expressed through our actions and our actions testify about what we believe, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works. so doing good works is what faith looks like. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept God's commandments are the same as those who kept faith in Jesus. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying his commands. In John 6:40 those who believe in the Son will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to have eternal life, then obey the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in the Son and to know him. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, those who know righteousness are those on whose heart is God's law. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is His instructions for how to know Christ and to have a relationship with him.

In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith. In 2 Timothy 3:8, those who oppose Moses also oppose the truth, being of corrupted minds and disqualified in regard to the faith. In 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law, and in Romans 14:23, whatever is not of faith is sin, so these verses are equating lawlessness with unbelief.

BNR32FAN said:

This statement contradicts itself. This is saying works aren’t necessary for salvation but in the same breath saying works are necessary for salvation. That’s why it’s not in the scriptures. Martin Luther was not an apostle.

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There is a significant difference between saying that works aren't necessary to earn our salvation and saying that works aren't necessary for salvation. If works weren't necessary for salvation, then our faith would abolish our need to obey God's law, however, in Romans 3:31, Paul did not want us to draw that conclusion because he said that our faith does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, it doesn't even make sense to try to separate our need to do good works from the concept of being saved from not doing good works. We are saved by faith alone because there are no works that we can do to earn our salvation, but faith is never alone because it is expressed through doing good works. Only those who have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey His law and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by being doers of the law.

BNR32FAN said:

The goats didn’t have love for others. That’s why they were condemned. Look at the works Jesus described. They all result from love.

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The goats were the unbelievers.

Soyeong said:

Sin is in regard to how we live our lives, so believing that Jesus is our Savior from sin is also in regard to how we live our lives, which is why there are many verses that equate obedience with believing, so there is no difference, which is why every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is an example of people taking actions. Our beliefs are expressed through our actions and our actions testify about what we believe, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works. so doing good works is what faith looks like. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept God's commandments are the same as those who kept faith in Jesus. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying his commands. In John 6:40 those who believe in the Son will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to have eternal life, then obey the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in the Son and to know him. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, those who know righteousness are those on whose heart is God's law. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is His instructions for how to know Christ and to have a relationship with him.

In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith. In 2 Timothy 3:8, those who oppose Moses also oppose the truth, being of corrupted minds and disqualified in regard to the faith. In 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law, and in Romans 14:23, whatever is not of faith is sin, so these verses are equating lawlessness with unbelief.



There is a significant difference between saying that works aren't necessary to earn our salvation and saying that works aren't necessary for salvation. If works weren't necessary for salvation, then our faith would abolish our need to obey God's law, however, in Romans 3:31, Paul did not want us to draw that conclusion because he said that our faith does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, it doesn't even make sense to try to separate our need to do good works from the concept of being saved from not doing good works. We are saved by faith alone because there are no works that we can do to earn our salvation, but faith is never alone because it is expressed through doing good works. Only those who have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey His law and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by being doers of the law.

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What is a good work?

klutedavid said:

What is a good work?

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In 2 Timothy 3:15-17, Paul referred to sacred writings that Timothy had since childhood, which could only refer to OT Scriptures because none of the books of the NT had yet been written. So OT Scripture are profitable for teaching, correction, reproof, and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. These terms are all referring to instructions in regard to our code of conduct, and the code of conduct in OT Scriptures is the Mosaic Law, so that is why Paul was primarily referring to. I don't see how someone could argue that God neglected to teach the Israelites how to do good works, and I don't see any options for how else God taught them how to do good works other than the Mosaic Law.

Soyeong said:

Sin is in regard to how we live our lives, so believing that Jesus is our Savior from sin is also in regard to how we live our lives, which is why there are many verses that equate obedience with believing, so there is no difference. This is also why every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is an example of people taking actions. Our beliefs are expressed through our actions and our actions testify about what we believe, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works. so doing good works is what faith looks like. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept God's commandments are the same as those who kept faith in Jesus. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying his commands. In John 6:40 those who believe in the Son will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to have eternal life, then obey the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in the Son and to know him. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, those who know righteousness are those on whose heart is God's law. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law is His instructions for how to know Christ and to have a relationship with him.

In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith. In 2 Timothy 3:8, those who oppose Moses also oppose the truth, being of corrupted minds and disqualified in regard to the faith. In 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law, and in Romans 14:23, whatever is not of faith is sin, so these verses are equating lawlessness with unbelief.



There is a significant difference between saying that works aren't necessary to earn our salvation and saying that works aren't necessary for salvation. If works weren't necessary for salvation, then our faith would abolish our need to obey God's law, however, in Romans 3:31, Paul did not want us to draw that conclusion because he said that our faith does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, it doesn't even make sense to try to separate our need to do good works from the concept of being saved from not doing good works. We are saved by faith alone because there are no works that we can do to earn our salvation, but faith is never alone because it is expressed through doing good works. Only those who have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey His law and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by being doers of the law.

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Amen!

Bob Wille said:

"May it be so. It's the LEAST we can do for ALL that He has done for us, amen?" I totally agree with your reasoning and your conclusion.
Once again, thank you for your wisdom. You have taught me a lot with your responses.

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Thank you and may God richly bless you, Bob.

GDL said:

Missing a word here?

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Yes, authentic "faith." Thank you.

BNR32FAN said:

Are you familiar with the word pisteuo? You might want to take a close look at the definition of the word translated to believe.

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Yes and the word "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read the demons believe "pisteuo" (mental assent) "that there is one God," but the demons do not believe "pisteuo" on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. So depending on the context, pisteuo may or may not be referring to saving belief. In most cases it does, but in some cases it doesn't.

BNR32FAN said:

I apologize I misunderstood your position brother Dan. Please forgive my mistake.

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Sure, no problem.