AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

LoveGodsWord

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I didn't say Constantine changed God's forth commandment, I said he insisted on moving the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday and that took place around 331 AD, the exact date may be off a little but it was during the forth century. Sunday worship was well established long before the reformation.

You suggest I read my bible, I have many times, I just don't interpret as some others like yourself do. I also don't create a dogma by selective scripture and ignore others. I can also think outside the box and realize there are many truths that most Christians are clueless about.

You see, the majority of Christian theologians and scholars as do well established churches don't think as the SDA. You look at the Julian calendar and say, Oh, gee, we can only worship and observe Saturday as a sabbath. What does the forth commandment say, It says you should only work six days a week and the seventh is a day of rest. No where does it say Saturday is the only day that can be observed, and that is where the SDA don't get it.

Looking back at the eight years of SDA schools it is amazing some of the non sense that came out of that experience. Don't miss understand me, Loma Linda is a wonderful college, with some wonderful professors as long as you stay out of the theology classes. Personally I don't think there is a finer med school anywhere.

Truth is if the had printed the calendar as Sunday being the seventh day the SDA would happily observing Sunday as the sabbath. Reality, look at our normal weekend, Saturday is the first day of the weekend. Most of us think of Monday as the beginning of the week.
I am sorry dear friend I do not see any truth in this post. Happy to talk specifics of scripture if you like though. All I see here in this post is unsubstantiated accusations and claims that are not biblical that you cannot prove. Thanks for sharing your view though. Happy to discuss scripture though if there is something you disagree with. Until then we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Danthemailman

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If only those early church fathers knew that Paul wrote that the law was until Jesus, abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace, the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory, therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival (Sabbath) or a new moon, (Sabbath) or a Sabbath day.

Had those early fathers studied Paul they would not have had to make decrees. Everyone would be able to choose for themselves when they wanted to worship corporately. Seems like not much has changed.
Amen brother! Well said. :)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Amen brother! Well said.
Not really. God's Word does not teach that his 10 commandments are abolished. The good news of the gospel of our lord Jesus Christ is that sin and death can be though for those who believe and follow God's Word. God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures are the standard of Good and Evil; Sin and Righteousness in the new covenant and give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. If we knowingly break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the God's Word (including God's 4th commandment which is one of the 10) we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11 because sin is the transgression of God's law *1 John 3:4. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it according to the scriptures, do not enter God's Kingdom because they reject the gift of Gods dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31; Romans 6:23. Yep many are going to be disappointed at the second coming according to Matthew 7:21-23 thinking they were saved but were really lost.
 
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clefty

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The church wasn't responsible for my mothers health problem, her diet was primarily vegetarian, however she didn't care much for vegetables that are high in protein, it was her own fault and no one elses.
ok...just seemed like you lumped that in as part of a church’s fault its stance on meat

As for my friend, he is an Elder in the SDA church, very intelligent man, just no guts.
it’s not easy to say “yes!” to go ahead and drink alcohol or even premarital sex when there is REAL danger in it...

Everyone knows that meat that is prepared properly is safe to eat.
safety or even health is NOT the issue...Had He asked we not eat fruit from a certain tree...WE SHOULD COMPLY

Pork especially if it isn't cooked properly one can be infected with the parasitic worms, Trichinella spiralis, can lead to trichinosis. As long as it is cooked above 160 degrees for minimum of three minutes it is perfectly safe to eat. Another meat that most won't eat is rattle snake, and it is delicious.
your god is your belly then?

You are correct, peer pressure can be very controlling, I know that first hand. If someone is going to reject you because you believe differently that they do, you don't need that person as a friend anyway because their alleged friendship is conditional and that is wrong.
the way is narrow for a reason...but its end is worth it...
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So the day really matters. I don't like posting scripture, but I'll make an exception

Exodus 35:2 (NIV) 2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

You work six days, say Monday through Saturday, and you rest on the seventh. What about the people that need to work on the weekends, Police, Firemen, Doctors, Nurses, well skip most doctors.
Oh, I get is, people aren't suppose to commit crimes, have fires, or get sick on Saturday, right.
Please stop and think it through, the sin would be working seven days a week and not taking time for worship, the day isn't relevant.

Sorry, I went to Loma Linda, but I'm not a doctor, don't even have a PHD. I just have several friends that did though. When I stated eight years, four years Montery Bay Accedemy (hight school) then Loma Linda for four.
Not all Police, Fireman, Doctors, Nurses are Christians, so as a Sabbath believer give the Sabbath shifts to the non Christians and ask to take the Sunday shifts. :)
 
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clefty

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I didn't say Constantine changed God's forth commandment, I said he insisted on moving the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday and that took place around 331 AD, the exact date may be off a little but it was during the forth century. Sunday worship was well established long before the reformation.
some claim it was already established as “first day of the week” gatherings and “Lord’s Day” IN SCRIPTURE...again a more accurate claim...but still off...and a better argument

You suggest I read my bible, I have many times, I just don't interpret as some others like yourself do. I also don't create a dogma by selective scripture and ignore others. I can also think outside the box and realize there are many truths that most Christians are clueless about.
you might be right...but not yet demonstrated...

You see, the majority of Christian theologians and scholars as do well established churches don't think as the SDA. You look at the Julian calendar and say, Oh, gee, we can only worship and observe Saturday as a sabbath. What does the forth commandment say, It says you should only work six days a week and the seventh is a day of rest. No where does it say Saturday is the only day that can be observed, and that is where the SDA don't get it.
things really began to fall into place when they looked past the Julian calendar and INTO His time keeping...they discovered Day of AtONEment and were really blessed...

That He has His OWN CALENDAR...so they restored Sabbath...STOLE IT BACK from Jews and better understood the sanctuary and the OT...Sadly they accepted OT’s diet...but rejected His festival days...

ODD such truth was restored with the Sanctuary Yah’s Theater to His Divine Opera of Salvation but still they reject its SHOW TIMES...alas

Peer pressure...TOO MUCH TOO SOON is hard...

Looking back at the eight years of SDA schools it is amazing some of the non sense that came out of that experience. Don't miss understand me, Loma Linda is a wonderful college, with some wonderful professors as long as you stay out of the theology classes. Personally I don't think there is a finer med school anywhere.
that appetites of the flesh thingy eh?...understand...

Truth is if the had printed the calendar as Sunday being the seventh day the SDA would happily observing Sunday as the sabbath. Reality, look at our normal weekend, Saturday is the first day of the weekend. Most of us think of Monday as the beginning of the week.

For years now in Europe and elsewhere calendars are printed EXACTLY as you wish...Sunday the last day Monday the first...

Might I suggest you go ALL IN with Him His Ways?

We can NOT serve TWO MASTERS...
 
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clefty

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Sad that some think this is something to poke fun at.....

Oh...I try many ways to get people to think about what lifestyle we all are headed for...to when His are restored to how it was when made in His Image in the garden...BEFORE sin...

See if they are willing to give it a go now...and here...

It’s not just about health or sin but what were we designed to do?
 
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clefty

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It is the Seventh Day in Ex 35:2 not a seventh day. You are ignoring the definite article.

HalleluYah...exactly...good call!

HIS seventh day...as per the creation count...

that count started before the sun and moon were created...

a cadence He chose as He COULD have made it in a boom or billion years...

but chose six days and then a seventh day made Holy...not equal to all other days...

and when He cursed all He made...people animals and land...His TIME its Sabbath was spared...
 
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clefty

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If only those early church fathers knew that Paul wrote that the law was until Jesus,
oh relax...they knew and translated and interpreted it exactly as you do...that He abolished the Law...despite Paul writing He was the GOAL of the Law its AIM...the embodiment of it...the “telos” in greek...look it up

as John said the Word become flesh...for a reason to teach and demonstrate the OT

You would have the Constitution “disappear” when the President or any official or officer of the Law would show up...

abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace,
ummm...you miss that what was abolished by His flesh was the ENMITY the Jews had of the unclean goyim...NOT allowing His house of prayer to be for ALL nations...but putting up middle walls of seperation...LITERALLY in the temple...

that is what He destroyed and JOINED JEW AND GREEK INTO ONE NEW MAN A CITIZEN OF ISRAEL...He returned it to OT ways when ONE LAW was for NATIVE AND FOREIGNERS THE SAME...as SPECIFIED in the Sabbath commandment the ONLY living oracle to INCLUDE those not of Jacob...SUCH IRONY...neat eh?


ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones,
what was engraved in stones? The Jews keeping the goyim out? THAT WAS indeed...lol...

Ancient Temple Mount ‘warning’ stone is ‘closest thing we have to the Temple’

A ministry of death to the unclean goyim if trespassed...

came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory,
yup glory...IS WHY David AND Paul delighted in His Law...His living oracles received with an “I DO” by His Bride at Sinai...

Like our traffic laws designed for order and efficiency becomes “a ministry of tickets and jail” WHEN TRANSGRESSED...but otherwise a glory...

And NOW we have a co Pilot that actually helps us KEEP them...neat eh? And argues as our traffic attorney when we fail...WHAT GLORY

A ministry of righteousness excelling in GLORY according to the SAME STANDARDS...His Law put into uncircumcised hearts and “Inner Jew” minds...of His people...

Nothing about His NEW Law or UPGRADED version 2.0...

Is WHY for 40 days that is 5 weekends NOTHING was noted as changed...the disciples STILL kept Pentecost and the weekly sabbaths and kosher...

Those 40 days would have been a GREAT TIME to preach your another gospel...as if “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered” the SAME claim slandering Jews made...Luke was clear it was FALSE WITNESS...as He taught “think NOT that” but you insist...

Titus 1:14

Instead He taught “Do what they teach from Moses’ seat”

therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival (Sabbath) or a new moon,(Sabbath) or a Sabbath day.
judge our keeping of them BUT the Body of Christ...

Mistranslations: Why Many Do Not Understand About the Sabbath and the Holy Days

Why would anyone judge non Jews their NOT keeping of New Moons anyway?

Had those early fathers studied Paul they would not have had to make decrees.
they DID study Paul is WHY they decreed people forsake NOT fellowship...and twisted his teaching into Sunday Ham is ok...but NOT to hear Moses on Sabbath that is TOO JEWISH...

Your argument exactly...you would have made a GREAT early father...

Everyone would be able to choose for themselves when they wanted to worship corporately.
thankfully our God is not an author of confusion...as if everybody worshipping whenever...whatever


Seems like not much has changed.
alas yes...most of Man’s tradition remains His Ways “Not for me”

His come out of this babbling Babel...and follow Him His Way...

And teach ALL to observe ALL “I have commanded you”

Not just 9/10ths or less...

You know...keep the faith OF Yahushua...not just some of it...LOVE AS He first loved us...
 
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clefty

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I am sorry dear friend but I disagree with you as what your sharing here is not what the scriptures say as shown in the previous posts to you. It is "GOD'S REST" that is being defined in Hebrews 4:3-5 linking back to the foundation of the world not God's 4th commandment it says so in Hebrews 4:3-5 as shown in the last post to you. Who do you think "blessed" the "seventh day and made it a "Holy day of rest"? Why did God "bless the seventh day" and made "the seventh day" a "holy day"? This answer and reason is given in God's Word in Genesis 2:1-3. You saying there is no evidence over and over when it is written directly in the scriptures stating what God's rest is from the foundation of the world which is in reference to the "seventh day" of the creation week that God blessed and made a holy day in both *Hebrews 4:3-5 and Genesis 2:1-3 does not make Gods Word disappear. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I suggest you re-read the posts and scriptures shared with you again carefully. Ignoring them do not make them disappear. I thank you for sharing your view but for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them.

what am I missing here you guys are on about?

Sabbath weekly rest vs promised land/eternal rest?
 
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RBPerry

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I am sorry dear friend I do not see any truth in this post. Happy to talk specifics of scripture if you like though. All I see here in this post is unsubstantiated accusations and claims that are not biblical that you cannot prove. Thanks for sharing your view though. Happy to discuss scripture though if there is something you disagree with. Until then we will have to agree to disagree.

Sorry, not all history is in the bible, you got to get out of the box first, and do your homework.
What your saying is if it isn't written in scripture you ignore the information. Pretty narrow minded.
 
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RBPerry

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Not all Police, Fireman, Doctors, Nurses are Christians, so as a Sabbath believer give the Sabbath shifts to the non Christians and ask to take the Sunday shifts. :)

Unbelievable!
 
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Bob S

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Not really. God's Word does not teach that his 10 commandments are abolished.
Rom 5:13
Sin was in the world before the Law was given. But sin is not held against a person when there is no Law.

Hi LGW, could you show us anyplace in the New Testament where God put gentiles under the law? (law meaning the ten commandments)

1Cor 9:21

There are some who live by not obeying the Jewish law. I became as one who lives by not obeying the Jewish law so I might lead them to Christ. This does not mean that I do not obey God’s Law. I obey the teachings of Christ.

What was it that Christ taught. Well, He taught that He kept His Father's commandments (Sinai covenant laws) and that we should keep the laws Christ taught us to keep. He taught us to love one another as He loves us. One thing Christ never taught and that was the Sabbath command of the ten commandments. Paul didn't teach keeping the Sabbath command of the ten either.

2Cor3:6

God is the One Who made us preachers of a New Way of Worship. This New Way of Worship is not of the Law. (law meaning the ten commandments) It is of the Holy Spirit. The Law brings death, but the Holy Spirit gives life.
2Cor 3:7-11
7 The Law of Moses was written on stone and it brought death. But God’s shining-greatness was seen when it was given. When Moses took it to the Jews, they could not look at his face because of the bright light. But that bright light in his face began to pass away. 8 The new way of life through the Holy Spirit comes with much more shining-greatness. 9 If the Law of Moses, that leads to death, came in shining-greatness, how much greater and brighter is the light that makes us right with God? 10 The Law of Moses came with shining-greatness long ago. But that light is no longer bright. The shining-greatness of the New Way of Worship that brings us life is so much brighter. 11 The shining light that came with the Law of Moses soon passed away. But the new way of life is much brighter. It will never pass away.

Those verses expose the ten commandments as being the ones that leads to death,☠. They also reveal what took the place of the law of Moses written on stone, one that will never pass away like the ten commandments, the Holy Spirit. What was the guide for israel, the ten commandments of course. What is the guide for the New way, the Holy Spirit of course.

Now LGW, you wrote "Not really. God's Word does not teach that his 10 commandments are abolished. The ten are there for us to see, but they have lost their brightness and are not our guide since Jesus so freely gave the Holy Spirit as our guide for eternity. The ten now have no power to condemn us to ☠. They are not anyones guide now that we have God's gift of the Holy Spirit.

Gal 2:3-5

3 Titus was with me. Even being a Greek, he did not have to go through the religious act of becoming a Jew. 4 Some men who called themselves Christians asked about this. They got in our meeting without being asked. They came there to find out how free we are who belong to Christ. They tried to get us to be chained to the Law. 5 But we did not listen to them or do what they wanted us to do so the truth of the Good News might be yours.

Boy does that ring a bell. Same thing that some are trying to do here on the forum.

Gal 3:2

There is one thing I want to know. Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the Law? Or did you receive Him by hearing about Christ?

Gal 3:5
He gave you the Holy Spirit and did powerful works among you. Does He do it because you do what the Law says or because you hear and believe the truth?

Gal 3:10 Pay attention to this verse law pushers.
All those who expect the Law to save them from the punishment of sin will be punished. Because it is written, “Everyone who does not keep on doing all the things written in the Book of the Law will be punished.”


Gal 3:12-13
  1. The Law does not use faith. It says, “You must obey all the Law or you will die.”
    Galatians 3:13
  2. Christ bought us with His blood and made us free from the Law. In that way, the Law could not punish us. Christ did this by carrying the load and by being punished instead of us. It is written, “Anyone who hangs on a cross is hated and punished.”
    1. The Law was used to lead us (the Jews) to Christ. It was our teacher, and so we were made right with God by putting our trust in Christ.
      Galatians 3:25
    2. Now that our faith is in Christ, we do not need the Law to lead us (Jews).

I could go on and on with verses that tell us we are not under the ten commandments, but will those bent on Sabbath observance take all that is written about the law to heart? I suspect that we will see over and over the following nonsense: "Not really. God's Word does not teach that his 10 commandments are abolished."
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sorry, not all history is in the bible, you got to get out of the box first, and do your homework.
What your saying is if it isn't written in scripture you ignore the information. Pretty narrow minded.

Sorry dear friend, just more empty words to me. Did you wish to talk scripture? I am still waiting. Until then we will have to agree to disagree because to me only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. Let me know when you wish to discuss the scriptures and the OP. So far have provided none.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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So the day really matters. I don't like posting scripture, but I'll make an exception Exodus 35:2 (NIV) 2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Doing good and saving lives is lawful according to JESUS who is the creator of it *Mark 2:27-28 that he made for all mankind...

Luke 6:5-11
[5], And he said to them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
[6], And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
[7], And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
[8], But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the middle. And he arose and stood forth.
[9], Then said Jesus to them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
[10], And looking round about on them all, he said to the man, Stretch forth your hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
[11], And they were filled with madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus.

and again here...

Matthew 12:1-12
[1], At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungered, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.
[2], But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, Behold, your disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath day.
[3], But he said to them, Have you not read what David did, when he was an hungered, and they that were with him;
[4], How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the show bread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
[9], And when he was departed there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said to them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Why it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Hope this is helpful
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi Bob, I might break this one down into some smaller posts for your consideration..
Rom 5:13 Sin was in the world before the Law was given. But sin is not held against a person when there is no Law.
True in times of ignorance God winks at for the many the unknowingly commit sin but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all man everywhere to believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17
Hi LGW, could you show us anyplace in the New Testament where God put gentiles under the law? (law meaning the ten commandments) 1Cor 9:21 There are some who live by not obeying the Jewish law. I became as one who lives by not obeying the Jewish law so I might lead them to Christ. This does not mean that I do not obey God’s Law. I obey the teachings of Christ.
No problem Bob always happy to help. Your starting off with a false premise, all both JEWS and GENTILES according to Paul are "under sin"


Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin.

No one (Jew or Gentile believer) is "under the law" if they have repented from their sins and received God's forgiveness. We are only "under the law" according to Romans 3:19 if we stand before God guilty of breaking the law. Paul continues from showing both Jews and Gentiles all "under sin" and that to be "under sin" means to be "under the law guilty before God of breaking the law" *Romans 3:9-19..

Romans 3:19 [19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.


Romans 3:20 tells us the purpose of God's law in the next verse....

Romans 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


1 Corinthians is talking about Paul becoming all things to all men that he might lead them to Christ that they might be forgiven through faith. It is not saying that Paul broke God's 10 commandments to lead others to Christ.
What was it that Christ taught. Well, He taught that He kept His Father's commandments (Sinai covenant laws) and that we should keep the laws Christ taught us to keep.
JESUS taught the same laws as the Father. JESUS and the Farther are one. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Your understanding of the covenants here has JESUS against the Father when they are one.
He taught us to love one another as He loves us. One thing Christ never taught and that was the Sabbath command of the ten commandments. Paul didn't teach keeping the Sabbath command of the ten either
Love is the fulfilling of God's law not the breaking of it and is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS" of love to God and man HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40. Paul says the same thing as JESUS but specifically links LOVE to obedience to the 10 commandments in Romans 13:8-10 as does JAMES in James 2:8-12. Love therefore is the fulfilling of God's law not the abolishing of God's law or the breaking of it which is what you are teaching. JESUS was quoting from the old testament scriptures in Matthew 22:36-40 BTW from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.


Hope this is helpful..
 
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LoveGodsWord

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2Cor3:6God is the One Who made us preachers of a New Way of Worship. This New Way of Worship is not of the Law. (law meaning the ten commandments) It is of the Holy Spirit. The Law brings death, but the Holy Spirit gives life. 2Cor 3:7-11 7 The Law of Moses was written on stone and it brought death. But God’s shining-greatness was seen when it was given. When Moses took it to the Jews, they could not look at his face because of the bright light. But that bright light in his face began to pass away. 8 The new way of life through the Holy Spirit comes with much more shining-greatness. 9 If the Law of Moses, that leads to death, came in shining-greatness, how much greater and brighter is the light that makes us right with God? 10 The Law of Moses came with shining-greatness long ago. But that light is no longer bright. The shining-greatness of the New Way of Worship that brings us life is so much brighter. 11 The shining light that came with the Law of Moses soon passed away. But the new way of life is much brighter. It will never pass away. Those verses expose the ten commandments as being the ones that leads to death,☠. They also reveal what took the place of the law of Moses written on stone, one that will never pass away like the ten commandments, the Holy Spirit. What was the guide for israel, the ten commandments of course. What is the guide for the New way, the Holy Spirit of course. Now LGW, you wrote "Not really. God's Word does not teach that his 10 commandments are abolished. The ten are there for us to see, but they have lost their brightness and are not our guide since Jesus so freely gave the Holy Spirit as our guide for eternity. The ten now have no power to condemn us to ☠. They are not anyones guide now that we have God's gift of the Holy Spirit.
I love these scriptures Bob, thanks for sharing but I believe your interpretation of them is not biblical but lets show why according to the scriptures. Your interpretation of these scriptures is that Gods' 10 commandments are abolished. This interpretation contradicts both the teachings and JESUS and all the Apostles as shown here linked. Paul also says in his own words elsewhere in Romans..

Romans 3:31 [31] Do we then abolish the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Dear Bob, it is the "ministration of sin and death" that is abolished in the Spirit under the new covenant not God's 10 commandments. God's law has the same role it always has under the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us as sinners to the foot of the cross where we can see JESUS that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25.

Let's talk detail through the scriptures in case someone is interested...

2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-14
[1], Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, letters of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2], you are our letter written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3], For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the letter of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.

Note: in [v3] that Paul is stating that the Corinthians here are letters of Christ ministered by Paul and his companions “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone (reference to the 10 commandments) but IN the fleshly tables of the HEART! Pauls reference here is to Gods new covenant promise of JEREMIASH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT that i will make with the house of israel after those days, said the lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people.

So the context here is the "MINISTRATION" (Paul and his companions being the ministers) of the new covenant Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ of which the Corinthians are examples who have been given a new heart to love God and walk in his commandments which is the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17.

[4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW COVENANT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Note: in [6] the context are repeated from [v3] that is that Paul and his companions were the MINISTERS of the NEW COVENANT. “NOT OF THE LETTER OF THE LAW BUT OF THE SPIRIT; FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE”. No where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 when God’s 10 commandments are broken and the penalty of sin is death *ROMANS 6:21-23; ROMANS 8:13 but it is not able to save us from sin and change our hearts to love and follow God.

Note: in [v6] continued “FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE” reference to the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17. The Jews had the letter of the law but did not have the Spirit of the law. JESUS said to the Jews that “unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven” *MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:13. The Scribes and Pharisees had the letter of the law but not the Spirit of the law. They had the outward appearance as to what the law required but not the change of heart that the new covenant promised *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17. “THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE”. They had the letter or outward forms and ceremonies but were not born again *JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 by the Spirit to love through a change of heart by the Spirit that brings life. On the OUTSIDE the Scribes and Pharisees appeared righteous to men but inwardly they were breaking God’s law and were full of dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:25:28.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28.

JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise to LOVE and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

This is leading to the NEW COVENANT PROMISE of a NEW HEART to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 5:42; 1 JOHN 5:17-19; 1 JOHN 4:16; 1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 4:8.

We do not have the LOVE of GOD in us *JOHN 5:42. We need to be BORN OF GOD to LOVE *1 JOHN 4:7 and partake of the NEW COVENANT promise. This is why JESUS teaches in *JOHN 3:3-7 that UNLESS we are made CLEAN from the INSIDE OUT and BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. This is what JESUS is talking about in MATTHEW 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's LAW from the INSIDE OUT.

Whosoever is BORN of GOD to LOVE in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12 does not commit SIN *1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 3:31; MATTHEW 22:36-40. This is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospels in the NEW COVENANT we have a SAVIOUR to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

1 JOHN 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are BORN AGAIN to LOVE and it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God's LAW (10 commandments) from the INSIDE OUT. *REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; HEBREWS 8:10-12. Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7.

………….

So what the conclusion of the matter?

ECCLESIASTES 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN.

God’s LAW (10 commandments) are not abolished they are fulfilled and established in the life of a believer as they believe God’s Word and abide in Christ and walk in God’s Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4.

[7], BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, SO THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MOSES FOR THE GLORY OF HIS COUNTENANCE; WHICH GLORY WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:

Note: It is the "MINISTRATION CONDEMNATION AND DEATH SIN that is to be done away through the Spirit, not God’s law as God’s law is not sin it only gives us a knowledge of what sin is. God's law is Holy, Just and Good * ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25

[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION BE GLORY, MUCH MORE DOES THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY.

Note: The 10 commandments (the letter) written on stone is the “MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION” that is it condemns sin or the breaking of God’s 10 commandments. It brings a knowledge is sin and condemnation brings the guilt of sin which is death. Through the Spirit of JESUS our sins are forgiven as we have faith in God’s Word *JOHN 3:16-19; 1 JOHN 1:9 and His Spirit through faith in the Word of God *JOHN 6:63 changes our heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12 to love and obedience that leads to righteousness *ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 6:14:16; ROMANS 1:5; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

[10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS.

Note: The purpose of God’s law was only to give us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20 and to lead us to JESUS *GALATIANS 3:22-25. It could never change us and free us from the power and condemnation of sin. The old covenant Sanctuary laws for remission of sins (burnt offerings and animal sacrifices and blood offerings) pointed to JESUS and God’s plan of salvation in the new covenant and God’s promise of salvation from sin’s power *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17; JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 3:6-9.

[12], Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13], AND NOT AS MOSES, WHICH PUT A VEIL OVER HIS FACE, THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY LOOK TO THE END OF THAT WHICH IS ABOLISHED:

Note: the veil to be abolished is the “letter of condemnation and sin” which leads to the Spirit of life which is received by faith in God’s Word that leads us to the Spirit of Christ that works in us to love *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 3:22-25; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12.

[14], BUT THEIR MINDS WERE BLINDED: FOR UNTIL THIS DAY REMAINS THE SAME VEIL NOT TAKEN AWAY IN THE READING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT; WHICH VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
[15], BUT EVEN TO THIS DAY, WHEN MOSES IS READ, THE VEIL IS ON THEIR HEART.

Note: Following the “letter of the law”(old covenant) only leads to the outward appearance of righteousness condemned by JESUS when talking to the Scribes and Pharisees as highlighted above and in MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:13 MATTHEW 23:25-28. We need to be saved from the INSIDE and receive a new heart to love. Outward obedience to God’s law does not save us because sin originates from the heart *MATTHEW 5:17-27.

[16], NEVERTHELESS WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.
[17], NOW THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, THERE IS LIBERTY.
[18], BUT WE ALL, WITH OPEN FACE BEHOLDING AS IN A GLASS THE GLORY OF THE LORD, ARE CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE FROM GLORY TO GLORY, EVEN AS BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD.

The Spirit of the law is JESUS and God’s new covenant promise of salvation from sin and a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; Whosoever is born of God does not practice sin *1 JOHN 3:6-9. Sin is breaking anyone of God’s 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11 or not believing and following Gods’ Word *ROMANS 14:23. Sorry Bob, it seems God’s Word disagrees with you.

So it is not God's law (10 commandments) that is abolished dear friends in 2 Corinthians 3 but the "MINISTRATION OF SIN AND DEATH" through faith and the Spirit in the new covenant promise.

Hope this is helpful Bob.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Gal 2:3-5 3 Titus was with me. Even being a Greek, he did not have to go through the religious act of becoming a Jew. 4 Some men who called themselves Christians asked about this. They got in our meeting without being asked. They came there to find out how free we are who belong to Christ. They tried to get us to be chained to the Law. 5 But we did not listen to them or do what they wanted us to do so the truth of the Good News might be yours.
Boy does that ring a bell. Same thing that some are trying to do here on the forum
Yes it does ring a bell Bob but not perhaps with your interpretation of these scriptures. "CIRCUMCISION" which the scriptures is referring to is not a requirement for salvation it was a physical sign of a new heart through faith. (see Acts 15 and 1 Corinthians 7:19) and neither is CIRCUMCISION one of God's 10 commandments or is this scripture talking about God's 10 commandments but the Mosaic "shadow law" of "CIRCUMCISION" as a requirement for salvation. You know what Paul says...

1 Corinthians 7:9 CIRCUMCISION is nothing or UNCIRCUMCISION but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

You have Paul contradicting himself with that interpretation Bob.
Gal 3:2 There is one thing I want to know. Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the Law? Or did you receive Him by hearing about Christ?

Gal 3:5 He gave you the Holy Spirit and did powerful works among you. Does He do it because you do what the Law says or because you hear and believe the truth?

Gal 3:10 Pay attention to this verse law pushers. All those who expect the Law to save them from the punishment of sin will be punished. Because it is written, “Everyone who does not keep on doing all the things written in the Book of the Law will be punished.” Gal 3:12-13....
I could go on and on with verses that tell us we are not under the ten commandments, but will those bent on Sabbath observance take all that is written about the law to heart? I suspect that we will see over and over the following nonsense: "Not really. God's Word does not teach that his 10 commandments are abolished.
Great scriptures but not really relevant here Bob as no one is telling you to keep the law to receive Gods' Spirit or receive Gods' salvation. God's law is established by God's Spirit in the lives of those who believe and follow God's Word and who have been born again in God's new covenant promise to love *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 8:4; Romans 3:31; Galatians 5:16; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-24 and Ezekiel 36:25-27). We keep God's law now because we saved by God's grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 and now we are made free from sin to love God and keep his commandments *John 14:15; John 15:10; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 5:4.

Sorry Bob, hope this is helpful.
 
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RBPerry

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You gave me a flashback of my high school days. A student asked our teacher if those who work on Saturday are going to hell. His reply was "If they don't repent, and turn from working on the Sabbath they will definitely go to hell."

That is the kind of stupidity that SDA high school and grammar school kids were being fed. Now I know there is a reformed Adventist movement and honestly don't know much about, nor do I care to. But hopefully they will come away with a little more common sense.

You sound like a wonderful and kind person, and I certainly don't want to offend you, but some things I just don't understand where the logic comes from.

You asked about my education, I focused on nutrition, it doesn't take long to realize most primary care physicians are just legal drug dealers, and they make a lot of money peddling it, but that is for a different thread.
 
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