How can any Christian vote for pro-abortion politicians?

Back alley abortions are dangerous. Which is why they were made legal . Too many women were maimed or had died because they didn’t want to be pregnant. You don’t actually care about the women involved or the fetuses , you just want to punish the women

Brightmoon said:

You don’t actually care about the women involved or the fetuses , you just want to punish the women

Click to expand...

I think this comment kinda takes us full circle back to the politics of the issue, because it is a very political response. It's interesting because it is so similar to the kind of reasoning Trump uses to deflect from his own issues.

He regularly complains that all the investigations into his corruption are just an attempt to punish him. Trump is anti-abortion, you are pro-abortion, and yet you both use the same kind of reasoning about punishment.

In Trump's case there could be punishment if the investigation proves that there really is corruption, but the investigation itself is not a punishment. Punishment only has merit in the context of a deserved consequence for some kind of injustice.

Certainly I do not think anyone deserves improper medical treatment so it would not make sense to say that back alley abortions are some kind of punishment. I think, probably what you mean to say, is that some people believe they are morally superior to those women seeking out abortions and that any harm which comes to her in the process is deserved. Some people might see that as a punishment, but if so I think they do not have a right understanding of justice. I would think such a choice is foolish, but I would not say she deserved it.

Or, you could mean that expecting the pregnant mother to be responsible for the baby is punishment, but that, too, would not make sense, as the mother is the one behaving in a way that results in the punishment (i.e. unwanted pregnancy). Aside from those comparably rare cases of rape, it's her body, remember? If she views an unwanted baby as a punishment, then the sensible thing to do would be to stop getting pregnant.

Impact on standard of living is the number 1 reason why women (and men) opt for aborting unwanted pregnancies. Babies are expensive. They are time consuming. They require care and consideration 24 hours a day. It is very understandable that someone who gets accidentally pregnant would want a solution to avoid such commitment. But, that is not punishment. That is consequence.

If I'm too lazy to brush my teeth, I will get cavities. The cavities will hurt and it will be expensive to fix, but I will not accuse the dentist of just wanting to punish me when he tells me to be more careful about how I treat my teeth.

There would be little point is creating laws to safeguard unborn children only for the mothers to then be at risk of improperly performed medical procedures if life and safety is the goal. But I do not think there are only two choices (i.e. either safe abortions which harm children or dangerous abortions which harm the mothers). There is a third option; reduce the demand for abortion in the first place.

Christian Republican said:

Abortion isn't a choice; it's taking an innocent life. Abortion advocates like to fancy themselves as "pro-choice," but such a term is misleading. It wouldn't make sense if I were to say that stealing is wrong, but I would never interfere in other people's right to choose to steal, and therefore conclude that theft shouldn't be a crime.

Many verses in the Bible testify to the fact that there is life in the womb. One such verse is Luke 1:41: "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

How can any Christian vote for politicians who support abortion? That goes against God's teaching in the Bible not to murder (Exodus 20:13).

Click to expand...

The Bible also teaches that hate is also murder (1 John 3:15) and any lack of compassion, unrighteousness and injustice is against God (Amos 5:21-24; Matthew 25:31-46). God also hates a lying tongue and pride. Sin against God entails more that just abortion (Romans 1; Galatians 5:19-21)
The hypocrisy in this matter is that the Republicans legalized abortion in 1973 (Roe v. Wade Approved By Republican Appointees) and had several opportunities to overturn it. They did not because they use it as a political and religious talking point to secure evangelical votes by blaming the Democrats every election cycle since 1973. Ronald Reagan stated that the evangelical make up a large part of the electorate and whoever wins them could win the White House. So, evangelicals are political pawns.
Furthermore, a woman cannot get pregnant all by herself; a man is also involved. One of the main causes of unwanted pregnancies and sexual diseases is sexual immorality of which the church needs to speak out more about. Irresponsible men dumping their tadpoles in every available lily pond and not looking back. Many women are still self-aborting their fetuses, seeking quack medical assistance, or dumping their babies. Planned Parenthood did not seek after these women or advertised abortion specials; bewildered women sought them out for counseling. They are creating large orphan and foster care populations. 95% of the inmates in our prison populations are fatherless. Missing fathers account for a large percentage of abused children. If we really care, we must address the root of the problem. These include, rape, incest, adultery, fornication, prostitution, human trafficking, sexual hazing on college campuses, drug and alcohol abuses, date rape drugs, pedophilia, sexual abuses, etc. God has anointed His children with Holy Ghost power to set people free from these and other addictions (Luke 4:18-19). A vote cannot change the hearts of men, neither did God assign the government to do what He called us to do.
Hypocritically, evangelicals support Israel, a country that legalized abortion and homosexual unions.
https://embassies.gov.il/la/AboutIsrael/IsraelExperience/Pages/Gay-Israel.aspx
https://www.beadchaim.com/article/abortion-in-israel
If we really care about significantly reducing or stopping abortions, we would be proactive and preach, and live the gospel of Jesus Christ. Just sitting in church and condemning sinners will not change the situation (John 3:16-17).
Who would God judge for abortions? The man who made his deposit and left the scene; the woman who sought services; or the doctor?
God blamed Adam in the garden. God blamed David for covetousness which resulted in adultery and murder. Who will the courts penalize if overturned? We all have to stand before God for ourselves in the end.
A person may not vote for abortion but can vote for hate, injustice, and murder of defenseless innocent citizens because of avoidable fear for their life.

Christian Republican said:

Abortion isn't a choice; it's taking an innocent life.

Click to expand...

We can forgive others for their mistakes. Even women. Women don't always have full control over men and the sex act.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

"10-Years-Old Girl Gives Birth To Son Weighing 7 3⁄4 Pounds"

SkyWriting said:

We can forgive others for their mistakes. Even women.

Click to expand...

Yes, of course, though men just as often push for women to abort accidental pregnancies because they also do not want to be responsible for the life they helped create. Women are often the focus of criticism because they carry the fetus, but women can't get pregnant alone. I would suggest that a case could be made that the man is more responsible than the woman, because the man is meant to be the leader in the relationship (or, as Paul puts it, the head).

The problem is that pro-choice supporters do not see abortion as sinful. In other words, it's not that forgiveness isn't available, but rather that there is a lack of recognition that there is anything which needs to be forgiven.

SkyWriting said:

Women don't always have full control over men and the sex act.

Click to expand...

True enough, but those cases of rape/incest are a tiny proportion of the total number of abortions. The vast majority of them are for women (and men) who were irresponsible with their body and don't want the inconvenience of being stuck with a baby they don't want.

In this context it is not an issue of forgiveness or unrighteous judgment, but rather recognizing the facts of each case. For example, I talked to a man who said he and his wife decided to abort their child. When I asked how she had gotten pregnant he explained that she forgot to take her pills a few times. They had become lazy and complacent.

We don't need more comprehensive abortion laws; rather, we need more emphasis on people taking greater responsibility for their choices.

WonbyOneanddone said:

And no medical problems from abortion, eh?

Why you make is sound as if women had an abortion, they might live forever.

Click to expand...

Don’t recall seeing any posts in this thread saying that women who had abortions would live forever.

Arcangl86 said:

1) Not all Christians believe that fetus are humans, and thus don't consider abortion to be homicide.
2) There is no indication that

Arcangl86 said:

1) Not all Christians believe that fetus are humans, and thus don't consider abortion to be homicide.
2) There is no indication that banning abortions would actually reduce the amount, but it will make it more dangerous. So some might think harm reduction by keeping it legal is better then virtue singling by banning it.
2) Even those who might believe abortion is wrong might not be a one issue voter. Both parties have elements of their platforms that go against Christian beliefs. It's a matter of figuring out which party is closer. I personally think bans are ineffective, and Democrats are more likely to support policies that reduce the demand for abortion. So if I were a single issue voter, I would still probably lean Democratic.

Click to expand...

banning abortions would actually reduce the amount, but it will make it more dangerous. So some might think harm reduction by keeping it legal is better then virtue singling by banning it.
2) Even those who might believe abortion is wrong might not be a one issue voter. Both parties have elements of their platforms that go against Christian beliefs. It's a matter of figuring out which party is closer. I personally think bans are ineffective, and Democrats are more likely to support policies that reduce the demand for abortion. So if I were a single issue voter, I would still probably lean Democratic.

Click to expand...

Any person claiming that a fetus is not a human being has no right calling themselves a Christian. We are created in Gods image at the moment of conception. We are fearfully and wonderfully made, knitted in the womb in secret.

Christian Republican said:

Abortion isn't a choice; it's taking an innocent life. Abortion advocates like to fancy themselves as "pro-choice," but such a term is misleading. It wouldn't make sense if I were to say that stealing is wrong, but I would never interfere in other people's right to choose to steal, and therefore conclude that theft shouldn't be a crime.

Many verses in the Bible testify to the fact that there is life in the womb. One such verse is Luke 1:41: "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

How can any Christian vote for politicians who support abortion? That goes against God's teaching in the Bible not to murder (Exodus 20:13).

Click to expand...

You can't be Christian and vote pro-abortion or for candidates who enforce this hideous practice.

Joni Steele said:

You can't be Christian and vote pro-abortion or for candidates who enforce this hideous practice.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your opinion.

Isilwen said:

Thank you for your opinion.

Click to expand...

It's not opinion. Its truth.

Joni Steele said:

It's not opinion. Its truth.

Click to expand...

No, it's an opinion which you think is the truth. There is a difference.

Isilwen said:

No, it's an opinion which you think is the truth. There is a difference.

Click to expand...

Its truth because it's in the Bible..." Thou shalt not murder."

Joni Steele said:

Its truth because it's in the Bible..." Thou shalt not murder."

Click to expand...

Yes, the Bible says that. However, your opinion that a Christian cannot be a Christian if they vote for a pro-choice candidate is what's an opinion.

Joni Steele said:

Any person claiming that a fetus is not a human being has no right calling themselves a Christian. We are created in Gods image at the moment of conception. We are fearfully and wonderfully made, knitted in the womb in secret.

Click to expand...

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not the arbitrator of who does or does not have a right to call themselves a Christian.

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:

All human. Life is sacred. God has no favourites

Click to expand...

Well, there is this:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. -- Matthew 10

Everyone I know believes an aborted child goes to heaven, so there is no worry about the important thing: The destination of the child's soul. The child's soul is safe.

However, we do have to be concerned about the destination of the woman's soul. The state of her salvation is in question. But we have to keep this in mind:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. -- Matthew 5

This tells us that if the woman desires an abortion, if believes she has the right to an abortion, but we have prevented her merely by holding the sheriff's gun to her head, she is still in just as much sin and her soul is still in jeopardy.

So the law has gotten us nowhere with what Jesus has said is the important matter.

Francis Drake said:

Ok, some women might still have abortions, but there won't be the millions of slaughtered babies we see today.
What's more, cutting abortions will remove the national level guilt before God, just leaving the personal guilt.

Click to expand...

Actually, there were 623,471 reported abortions in 2016, and that number had been steadily decreasing since 1990.

As for "national guilt," remember that God has placed every worldly nation on the chopping block. None survives His judgment anyway.

Notre Dame did a study to determine the factors that have caused the steady decrease in abortions since 1990. They discovered that women in general were abortion-adverse and preferred to avoid unwanted pregnancies in the first place (which should not be a surprise, but Christian rhetoric tends to hysterically scream otherwise).

The Notre Dame researchers discovered that with Internet communication in the 90s and an increase in government pregnancy prevention information and services, women do begin practicing pregnancy prevention. Important in those services were things like easier and less expensive adoptions, more financial support for unwed mothers, and more access to contraceptives (a lot of people may not realize that through the seventies some states had laws that required a woman to get her husband's permission for contraceptives).

One of the Notre Dame researchers, a priest, pointed out, "Actions rooted in love do more to prevent abortions than criminalization."

Ironically, love is supposed to be the primary weapon of Christian warfare against evil, but American Christians seem to have forsake the weapons of our own warfare in favor of carnal weapons, such as the sheriff's gun.

BTW, overturning Roe v Wade will not result in criminalizing abortions across the board.

Overturning Roe v Wade will return the matter back to the states, which previously had a hodgepodge of abortion laws. Abortion was illegal in some states, legal in others. If Roe v Wade were reversed, some states would re-criminalize abortion...some states would not.

That is, of course, presuming a conservative Supreme Court actually manages to overturn Roe v Wade. We have had conservative courts that did not. During one period, there was only one Democrat-appointed justice on the SCOTUS that decided two cases that might have overturned Roe v Wade...and the court declined to do so.

What if the court merely rules that fetuses are "persons?" That doesn't change the matter, because states still get to determine when homicide against "persons" is criminal and when it is not. This has been a fundamental right of the states since before the Constitution, so it's unlikely a conservative "constitutionist" court will change it.

Moreover, other methods to help women prevent unwanted pregnancies, or give them better means of handling the expense and difficulties of bearing and raising children, or aiding the adoption of unwanted children appear to be much more effective than criminalizing abortion.

I think, though, a lot of Christians are more interested in making sure sinners suffer consequences than preventing the sin in the first place.

Joni Steele said:

You can't be Christian and vote pro-abortion or for candidates who enforce this hideous practice.

Click to expand...

I'm sure many "Christians" voted for Hitler.

But you are correct, Christians most of those "Christians" were simply self deceived.

What Hitler did though was throw money at the voters via socialist policies and taking money from Jews and sending them off to die. And really that is the appeal of abortion, that is, no accountability for bringing a life into the world and saving all that time and money they would otherwise lose in having the child.

Shrug, some things never change.

Christian Republican said:

Abortion isn't a choice; it's taking an innocent life. Abortion advocates like to fancy themselves as "pro-choice," but such a term is misleading. It wouldn't make sense if I were to say that stealing is wrong, but I would never interfere in other people's right to choose to steal, and therefore conclude that theft shouldn't be a crime.

Many verses in the Bible testify to the fact that there is life in the womb. One such verse is Luke 1:41: "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

How can any Christian vote for politicians who support abortion? That goes against God's teaching in the Bible not to murder (Exodus 20:13).

Click to expand...

To be fair, all politicians break the rules of not to murder. I mean, every president for the past several elections has sold super weapons to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, afghanistan, kuwait etc., And look at these countries now. Our very weapons that we made right here in the US, being dropped on people, many of which are innocent.

Look at Yemen for example this past year.

We didn't have to give Saudi Arabia those jets and bombs, but our greed for money resulted in us giving Saudi Arabia incredible power, which they used to crush rebels and additionally murder thousands of innocent civilians.

It's no different than giving a gun to a bank robber and then acting like you didn't play a hand in the banks robbing.

Joni Steele said:

You can't be Christian and vote pro-abortion or for candidates who enforce this hideous practice.

Click to expand...

Probably because “pro-abortion” isn’t a thing. One can be Christian and pro-choice or vote for pro-choice candidates, though.