The Clear Loser of The Presidential Election

Aldebaran · Nov 4, 2020

jgarden said:
Now we're wintnessing the bizarre spectacle of a Republican President unilaterally declaring victory in the middle of the night, demanding that the further counting of ballots cease - those same ballots that millions of American citizens were willing to risk exposure to COVID-!9 by spending countless hours in line, practicing social distancing, to make their vote count!

The ballots you're referring to are the ones people mailed in, and too late to be counted.
Not sure why people liked the "early" mail-in option if they're going to wait until the last minute (and beyond) to do it.

jgarden · Nov 4, 2020

JohnDB said:
So are you claiming that the polls were all accurate well within the margin of error?

Hey,
I've got this Bridge in NY that crosses the Hudson River into Brooklyn that I'd like to sell....you can set up toll booths and make a fortune.

It should come as no surprise that Trump and his supporters were arguing just the opposite back in 2016 - they expressed no such concerns about the accuracy of the count when it came to their narrow victories in both Michigan and Wisconsin that helped provide those 270 votes needed in the Electoral College!

Fast forward 4 years - apparently the spectacle of this same President unilaterally declaring himself the victor in the middle of the night and demanding that the Supreme Court dispense with all further countiing, to prevent his being voted out of office, doesn't trigger any warning bells that the Constitution and democracy in America are in peril!

Aldebaran · Nov 4, 2020

jgarden said:
It should come as no surprise that Trump and his supporters were arguing just the opposite back in 2016 - they expressed no such concerns about the accuracy of the count when it came to their narrow victories in both Michigan and Wisconsin - that helped provide the 270 votes needed in the Electoral College!

Fast forward 4 years - apparently the spectacle of a President unilaterally declaring himself the victor in the middle of the night and demanding that the Supreme Court dispense with all further countiing doesn't trigger any warning bells that the Constitution and democracy in America are in peril!

Would it be much different if he declared that he's "on track" to win?
Biden urges patience with vote count, says he's on track to win

jgarden · Nov 4, 2020

Aldebaran said:
Would it be much different if he declared that he's "on track" to win?
Biden urges patience with vote count, says he's on track to win

Apparently Trump supporters are incapable of distinguishing between one's candidate's innocuous declaration of being "on track" as a sign of optimism and a sitting-President unilaterally declaring victory in the middle of the night, accusing his opponents of "stealing the election" and demanding the Supreme Court halt further counting to forestall being voted out of vote!

Even given the unlikely eventuality that the Supreme Court would comply with this President's request to invalidate further counting, its recent "politicalization" under the Trump Administration has already seriously eroded public confidence in its ability to serve as an independent branch of government and to function as something more than just another partisan political arm of this White House!

JohnDB · Nov 4, 2020

What the polls and pundits got wrong: Trump outperforms predictions again

jayem · Nov 4, 2020

jgarden said:
Given the fact that the majority of the American electorate has consistently voted Democratic, only to be "saddled" by 2 incompetent Republican presidents for 12 of the last 20 years - democracy and belief in the electoral system are the real "losers" in America!

Now we're wintnessing the bizarre spectacle of a Republican President unilaterally declaring victory in the middle of the night, demanding that the further counting of ballots cease - those same ballots that millions of American citizens were willing to risk exposure to COVID-!9 by spending countless hours in line, practicing social distancing, to make their vote count!

So true. The American people are the biggest losers. Along with slow ballot tabulation in some states, we must deal with refusal to accept results, court challenges, demands for recounts, and various other attempts to poison the well and cast doubt on the election. Meaning whoever finally becomes President immediately faces the resentment of half of the country thinking he’s illegitimate.

As I see it, this is largely the result of relying on states to determine their own election procedures. There’s little or no national uniformity. We have a crazy-quilt of 50 different election rules and protocols. This (like the EC) is another obsolete, archaic relic of 18th century thinking. A time when states had far greater importance and influence in citizen’s lives than the federal government. It floors me that in the 21st century, we’re still stuck on the practices and traditions of 250 years ago.

wing2000 · Nov 4, 2020

Seems to me that pollsters simply are not reaching the likely Trump voter in their polls. Why is that? Refusal to participate?

iluvatar5150 · Nov 4, 2020

wing2000 said:
Seems to me that pollsters simply are not reaching the likely Trump voter in their polls. Why is that? Refusal to participate?

The restrictions on calling cell phones are tighter than they are on calling landlines and landlines skew towards older voters. I can't seem to find it now, but I saw a demographic breakdown showing that voters 65+ shifted left from 2016.

Albion · Nov 4, 2020

jayem said:
So true. The American people are the biggest losers. Along with slow ballot tabulation in some states, we must deal with refusal to accept results, court challenges, demands for recounts, and various other attempts to poison the well and cast doubt on the election.

Did you make similar statements when it was the Democratic leadership, the Hillary Clinton campaign organization, and the candidate herself who, in 2016 and thereafter, did exactly what you are complaining about now?

Tanj · Nov 4, 2020

Aldebaran said:
The ballots you're referring to are the ones people mailed in, and too late to be counted.

That's simply not true. Different states had different rules on when mail in votes get counted. The votes aren't too late since they clearly arrived on election day, they're just at the end of the queue.

Not sure why people liked the "early" mail-in option if they're going to wait until the last minute (and beyond) to do it.

On that we agree, though pretty sure if you looked at anything up to including when kids actually finished homework assignments due tomorrow, that it's widespread throughout humanity.

KCfromNC · Nov 4, 2020

JohnDB said:
So are you claiming that the polls were all accurate well within the margin of error?

No, never said anything like that. Feel free to go back and read what I actually wrote and respond to it. Or not. No big deal either way.

jayem · Nov 4, 2020

Albion said:
Did you make similar statements when it was the Democratic leadership, the Hillary Clinton campaign organization, and the candidate herself who, in 2016 and thereafter, did exactly what you are complaining about now?

Firstly, I didn’t support Hillary. I didn’t even vote in the Democratic primary. My first choice was John Kasich, for whom I voted in the Republican primary. Yes, I would have preferred her to Donald Trump. But I wrote-in Bernie Sanders. And I didn’t vote for Joe Biden either. I definitely prefer him to Trump. But this year, I wrote-in Mayor Pete Buttigieg for Pres., and Sen. Tammy Duckworth for VP. I vote for whomever I believe is the best person for the job.

To address your post, I don’t recall Hillary claiming she won the election before all the votes were in. I’m not aware that she threatened SCOTUS lawsuits to stop ballots from being counted. AFAIK, she accepted the results (at least publicly) and didn’t try to blame fraudulent, or illegal voting. As I said, she’s hardly my favorite politician. But she’s more of a man than Donald Trump.

Vylo · Nov 4, 2020

The florida pollsters mainly. That state is going to be a case study. The rest is within margin of error.

SimplyMe · Nov 4, 2020

Vylo said:
The florida pollsters mainly. That state is going to be a case study. The rest is within margin of error.

I believe that it is know the error in Florida was largely the Cuban Americans. Trump ran a lot of "Biden is socialist" ads and, based on their past in Cuba, it caused them to vote Trump.

Aldebaran · Nov 5, 2020

jgarden said:
Apparently Trump supporters are incapable of distinguishing between one's candidate's innocuous declaration of being "on track" as a sign of optimism and a sitting-President unilaterally declaring victory in the middle of the night, accusing his opponents of "stealing the election" and demanding the Supreme Court halt further counting to forestall being voted out of vote!

Even given the unlikely eventuality that the Supreme Court would comply with this President's request to invalidate further counting, its recent "politicalization" under the Trump Administration has already seriously eroded public confidence in its ability to serve as an independent branch of government and to function as something more than just another partisan political arm of this White House!

He said, "Stop the voting", not the counting. It was because the polls had already closed. As you said, it was the middle of the night. No more ballots should have been coming in.

Aldebaran · Nov 5, 2020

wing2000 said:
Seems to me that pollsters simply are not reaching the likely Trump voter in their polls. Why is that? Refusal to participate?

At least one polling company was able to reach them for the past 2 elections. They have been the most accurate pollsters, and the only one to get it right in 2016.
Trafalgar Group – Nationally Recognized Polling & Marketing Strategy

Aldebaran · Nov 5, 2020

iluvatar5150 said:
The restrictions on calling cell phones are tighter than they are on calling landlines and landlines skew towards older voters. I can't seem to find it now, but I saw a demographic breakdown showing that voters 65+ shifted left from 2016.

They call mine all the time. I use a call blocker now.

Aldebaran · Nov 5, 2020

Albion said:
Did you make similar statements when it was the Democratic leadership, the Hillary Clinton campaign organization, and the candidate herself who, in 2016 and thereafter, did exactly what you are complaining about now?

Or Al Gore?
I'm sure they have a #Whataboutgore reply coming.

SimplyMe · Nov 5, 2020

Aldebaran said:
He said, "Stop the voting", not the counting. It was because the polls had already closed. As you said, it was the middle of the night. No more ballots should have been coming in.

Care to try again: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324353932022480896

Aldebaran · Nov 5, 2020

SimplyMe said:
Care to try again: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324353932022480896

That was posted 6 hours ago. We were addressing what he said on TV the night of the election long after the polls had closed.

The Clear Loser of The Presidential Election

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