"the Bible is the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God"

BobRyan said:

I don't see it in these texts...instead of the Holy Spirit inspiring the entire church or the entire church leadership to write scripture. The Holy Spirit inspires a single individual here or there.

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I absolutely agree Paul said that not everyone receives the gift of prophecy. But those who do are still none the less the church. The church is the body of Christ. We are that body. Now I do agree that the church is also referred to as a group of believers in different places and this often appears to be referring to the church as a place instead of a group of people like in the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2-3. But the word church refers to the believers in that area not the place or building itself.

BobRyan said:

Nope. In Gen 17 it is just Abraham and those with him.

Gen 17:1 Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him,

Gen 17:12
“ A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised;
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By contrast all the gentiles in Acts 13, and 17 and 18 were not living as citizens of the land of Israel but living in their own land in their own homes and attending synagogues.

There is nothing in all of the OT or NT that said that gentiles that attend a synagogue in their own land had to be circumcised... nor was there a command that if gentiles were not circumcised they could not be saved.

The Jews were very particular about saved gentiles staying in "the court of the gentiles" in Jerusalem rather than entering into the inner area of the temple where only circumcised believers were allowed.

Acts 10
Now there was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and made many charitable contributions to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, “Cornelius!” 4 And he looked at him intently and became terrified, and said, “What is it, lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and charitable gifts have ascended as a memorial offering before God.

Acts 13:
14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:
...
26 “Brothers, sons of Abraham’s family, and those among you who fear God, to us the message of this salvation has been sent.

1. Acts 11:3
   saying, “You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them.”

They were in the synagogues not as Jews but as gentiles "you who fear God".

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It was for Abraham and his descendants for all generations and anyone living among them.


“This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:10-13‬ ‭NASB

Notice they made no distinction in acts 15 pertaining to Gentiles servants of Jews. This is because the necessity of circumcision was abolished all together along with the Old Covenant.

DamianWarS said:

then hypothetically the Bible is not the only infallible word of God as any word of God is infallible.

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Not so. I could say "God says that DamianWarS is misusing the Bible". Now either that that is the word of God, in which case it is totally true and nobody can dispute it, or I made it up and claimed it was the word of God, in which case everyone is at liberty to disagree - and clearly it is then fallible.

So the word of God is infallible, but the people who supposedly speak it aren't.

In other words someone claiming to speak a word of God does not make it so (and the infallible word of God (the Bible) tells us to test every spirit).

BNR32FAN said:

I absolutely agree Paul said that not everyone receives the gift of prophecy. But those who do are still none the less the church.

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No doubt the "Body of Christ" includes prophets - but the model in all of scripture is always that God goes directly to the individual and then sends the individual to the church to the group being warned, corrected, instructed.

It is not the church going to the prophet and giving the prophet a message from God.

BNR32FAN said:

It was for Abraham and his descendants for all generations and anyone living among them.

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The whole point of the "Court of the gentiles" in the OT was for uncircumcised gentile "God fearers" to attend worship services. Nothing in the OT said that gentiles could not be saved unless they were circumcised.

You are using this as "proof" that the church can negate the Bible - but there is no such thing. And in fact Acts 15 is making the opposite case - it says that the magisterium could not just make things up - that the Bible never supported.

“This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you:

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That is for literal physical children and gentiles by definition are not literal offspring of Abraham.

There is nothing in the OT that says that only Abraham was saved or that only direct descendants of Abraham were saved, or that anyone Abraham met could not be saved unless they left their homes joined up with Abraham and were circumcised.

The King of Salem for example - was not a descendant of Abraham and never joined his clan or moved into tents with Abraham.

BobRyan said:

No doubt the "Body of Christ" includes prophets - but the model in all of scripture is always that God goes directly to the individual and then sends the individual to the church to the group being warned, corrected, instructed.

It is not the church going to the prophet and giving the prophet a message from God.

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Is the prophet not a member of the church?


“Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. If they were all one member, where would the body be? But now there are many members, but one body. And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:1-31‬ ‭NASB

“For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:3-8‬ ‭NASB

BobRyan said:

The whole point of the "Court of the gentiles" in the OT was for uncircumcised gentile "God fearers" to attend worship services. Nothing in the OT said that gentiles could not be saved unless they were circumcised.

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How could they be saved without entering into His Covenant?

BobRyan said:

The whole point of the "Court of the gentiles" in the OT was for uncircumcised gentile "God fearers" to attend worship services. Nothing in the OT said that gentiles could not be saved unless they were circumcised.

You are using this as "proof" that the church can negate the Bible - but there is no such thing. And in fact Acts 15 is making the opposite case - it says that the magisterium could not just make things up - that the Bible never supported.



That is for literal physical children and gentiles by definition are not literal offspring of Abraham.

There is nothing in the OT that says that only Abraham was saved or that only direct descendants of Abraham were saved, or that anyone Abraham met could not be saved unless they left their homes joined up with Abraham and were circumcised.

The King of Salem for example - was not a descendant of Abraham and never joined his clan or moved into tents with Abraham.

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The covenant never said that living with Abraham was a requirement.

DamianWarS said:

of course, he also says "Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." so the term "word" is firmly cemented in tradition with scripture. I know the Greek doesn't carry case so "word" vs "Word" is a matter of interpretation on the translators part yet translators are unanimous. two words are used "rhema" (Mt 4:4) and "logos" (Jn 1:1, Jn 17:17). I think "logos" is more the subject here.

Logos is used a load of times in scripture and it is clear that it's a common word. in the cases of Jn 1:1 and Jn 17:17 the exact same form is used in that they are both nouns, they are borth nomitive, masculine and singluar. However one is translated "Word" and the other is translated "word". But it's not complicated, when refering to Christ it's "Word" and when not its "word", one is a title, one is a word. It's a common and the word of God can still have meaning outside of the Word of God.

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Also, it is important to note that greek like english are human languages.

There are many instances where there is a specific word in Greek where there isn't in english. However, there are instances where should be more than one word to express a concept in the greek but there is not. An example other than "Word" is "Hate" in these contexts - the context and not the word itself provides the definition which becomes confusion.

A good solution may have been to find where in the beginning the Word was with God and compare how that word was translated. I tend to use the word voice instead of word when relating to John chapter 1.

DamianWarS said:

are not all words from God also God-breathed? Surely God has had more than what was penned in the Bible. The statement in the OP declares the Bible is the only infallible word of God. What's wrong with saying it's the infallible word of God and omitting "only". The thing with being infallible is if something else disagrees with it then the infallible always wins.

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And again I will ask, what other words are God-breathed?
You say other words exist, yet give no examples.

It is disappointing to view these conversations and to know the recorded Word of YHWH declares that only the true believer will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and that all others will reside, Eternally, in the never-ending Lake of Fire.

BNR32FAN said:

How could they be saved without entering into His Covenant?

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The New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 where God writes His Law on their heart... just as Noah was saved. Just as Enoch was translated.

BNR32FAN said:

Is the prophet not a member of the church?

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But the church does not give the Word of God to the prophet.

God gives that Word to the prophet - and the prophet then instructs, corrects, sometimes condemns the actions of the church.

BobRyan said:

But the church does not give the Word of God to the prophet.

God gives that Word to the prophet - and the prophet then instructs, corrects, sometimes condemns the actions of the church.

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God gives His word to the prophets (who are also the church) and they give them to the rest of the church.

In reply to the OP's original post I would stand by the statement of faith as quoted, however one needs to explain what is accepted as "the Bible". As a protestant I do not acknowledge the Books of the Apocrypha and the Bible is the recognised collection of sixty six books commonly found in what may be termed "the protestant Bible".

To fully appreciate why and how the Bible became a measure of true faith one would have to delve into its origins and how the writings contained in it became accepted as "the word of God" rather than the opinions of men. There were and are many other writings that have not been accepted, some of those are disputed to this very day.

I do not recall all the conditions that had to be met. Perhaps there is another who will be better informed to tell you of these.

Knowing, though, that great care and concern went into the preparation of the cannon as we have received it today, I am fully prepared to stand by the statement of faith as quoted. The Bible is the infallible and authoritative word of God and I accept no other.

To understand Jesus as the Word of God would help you to understand one of the aspects for claiming such. Jesus is the Word of God because he is the fulfillment of every promise that God made concerning him. Jesus does not replace the word of God, he confirms it.

Understand that many prophecies given in the days of the Old Testament were not received as the "word of God" and that today prophecy must also be subjected to what is known to be true, and this is determined by the Bible.

I believe that the Bible is the only infallible and authoritative word of God and that Christ fulfills it exactly. Every other thought or opinion must be subjected to it.

BNR32FAN said:

God gives His word to the prophets (who are also the church) and they give them to the rest of the church.

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Just because someone claims to be a prophet does not automatically make them a prophet.

1 John 4:1-6

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
Do they confess that Jesus has come in the flesh?

Matthew 7:15-20

A Tree and Its Fruit
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Do they bear good fruit?

2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
Romans 16:18
For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

Jeremiah 14:14
And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.
Is what they are saying agree with scripture or contrary to scripture?

1 Corinthians 14:3
On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
Is the message upbuilding, encouraging and/or consoling?

1 Corinthians 14:29
Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
Are there others who meet the test who agree with them?

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21
Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good.

To be a prophet is to have very great responsibility.