Is the thousand years of Revelation chapter 20 symbolic?

BABerean2 said:

An unbiased witness would be able to see the number.


Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Your problem is if you admit what the text actually says, it kills the Premill doctrine.
No mortals, no Premill doctrine...

.

Click to expand...

Mat 25:34 Then the King shall say to those on His right hand, Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

The people who He is talking to are not those who had died in Christ and had been resurrected at His appearance - they are people who were judged by their works.

Your problem is if you admit what the text actually says, it kills the Amill doctrine.

Timtofly said:

You cannot clarify that the dead are those alive in their own sins? Those dead can be judged and cast into sheol. They are spiritually dead and are destroyed for destroying the earth. The church judged and awarded crowns to cast back at Jesus' feet in Paradise. Still has nothing whatsoever to do with Revelation 20:4.

Click to expand...

Agreed. In any case, when Christ appears all the souls currently in sheol who are Christ's at His coming, will rise, and the second death will have no power over them.

The rest of the dead still in sheol will feel themselves judged at that point, when they see the souls of so many others being "reconnected" with their resurrected, spiritual bodies. The second death only comes after a thousand years, when death and hades deliver all the remaining dead in them.

BABerean2 said:

You cannot have a judgment of the dead without a resurrection of the dead, in the verse below.
It occurs shortly after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


.

Click to expand...

The rest of scripture (Paul) teaches us that when Christ appears, all the souls currently in sheol/hades who are Christ's at His coming, will rise, and the second death will have no power over them.

The rest of the dead still in sheol/hades will certainly feel themselves judged at that point, when they see the souls of so many others being "reconnected" with their resurrected, spiritual bodies. The second death only comes after a thousand years, when death and hades deliver all the remaining dead in them.

Ignoring the rest of scripture when it suits you, and including other scriptures when it suits you, does not prove or support your argument.

BABerean2 said:

If you apply your words above to Revelation chapter 20 the Premill doctrine collapses.

Click to expand...

That's only true in your own mind - see the OP of this long thread again.

BABerean2 said:

Revelation 11:15-18 proves the book is not in chronological order. Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions given to John on the island of Patmos.

Click to expand...

No matter how many times you make the above assertion, it still does not become fact. It's your mind fitting the Revelation in with Amillennialism that causes you to repeatedly make assertions like the above and to fit passages together in the same time that do not fit together in the same time.

Revelation 11 is about the end of the age and return of Christ. The end of Revelation 20 is a thousand years later.

BABerean2 said:

There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:46.

Click to expand...

That's another assumption you make produced by the sand castle of Amillennialism (which was erected long ago on the sea's side of the high tide mark), and it flatly ignores Daniel 7:12, or re-interprets it to fit in with the Amill false theory.

BABerean2 said:

Paul said Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and the fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.

Click to expand...

No matter how many times you make the above assertion, it still does not become fact. It's your mind fitting the Revelation in with Amillennialism that causes you to repeatedly make assertions like the above and to fit passages together in the same time that do not fit together in the same time.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 is about the end of the age and return of Christ. The end of Revelation 20 is a thousand years later.

BABerean2 said:

Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing in 2 Timothy 4:1, and the judgement of the dead is at the end of Revelation 20.

Click to expand...

No matter how many times you make the above assertion, it still does not become fact. It's your mind fitting the Revelation in with Amillennialism that causes you to repeatedly make assertions like the above and to fit passages together in the same time that do not fit together in the same time.

2 Timothy 4:1 is about the end of the age and return of Christ. The end of Revelation 20 is a thousand years later.

BABerean2 said:

An angel with a key comes down and unlocks the pit in Revelation 9:1-2.
Why did this happen if the pit was not locked?

Click to expand...

The pit was locked and the angel who unlocks it is Satan, who unlocks it from the outside. The star fallen from heaven is a fallen star, and this fallen star was given the key. Are you saying that it's an angel of God who unlocks the pit?

If Satan was inside the pit already, then the angel who hands the key to Satan would first have to unlock the pit if Satan was inside it.

You don't even see how illogical this argument of yours is. Besides this, nowhere in the New Testament are we told that Satan is in the pit - see the OP in this thread.

BABerean2 said:

Based on Psalms 50:10 we know the word "thousand" can be used in a symbolic manner.

Click to expand...

Based on the Greek language and grammar we know that the words "a thousand years" in Revelation 20 is talking about a one-thousand year period, and that it does not mean a symbolic "thousand years" which is "thousands of years" (again - see the OP of this thread).

BABerean2 said:

Because the Two Witnesses are bodily resurrected from the dead, we know the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.

Click to expand...

There is only one resurrection from the dead and it's in Christ. He IS the resurrection and the life, the last Adam and the Son of Man - the first resurrection. The only resurrection that takes place in the creation is in Christ. The resurrection of the witnesses and of those who are Christ's at His coming are "synegeiro" - with Christ's resurrection (it's the resurrection of those who died in Christ). There is no 2nd and 3rd and 4th resurrection. The resurrection of the two witnesses = the resurrection of those who are Christ's at His coming = the resurrection of those who had been beheaded by the beast for their testimony to Jesus and their refusal to worship the beast or its image or receive its mark or the number of its name.

You have to ignore the above facts to make the Amill doctrine work.

BABerean2 said:

The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".

Click to expand...

False statement. Where is that written in the Revelation?

It's no wonder your mind is stuck in Amil. You ignore too many facts, and "interpret" the book using false principles.

BABerean2 said:

If the return of Christ is in Revelation 11, as you just stated above, you have just proved the book is not in chronological order.
Therefore, all of the events in Revelation 20 do no not necessarily follow the events of chapter 19.

You have just confirmed one of the biggest problems with your Premill doctrine.

Your second sentence above falls apart due to your first sentence above.

.

Click to expand...

What Revelation 11:15-19 is talking about parallels the events described in the 7th bowl of wrath, as well as what Revelation 19:11-21 is talking about, and what Revelation 17:14 is talking about, and what Revelation 13:11-18 is talking about, and Revelation 14:18-20 & Revelation 18 fills in more detail regarding the same things.

Revelation 11 begins with events that lead up to it, as does Revelation 13, and Revelation 17 gives more info on the identity of the beast and the harlot it attacks, whose judgment is written about extensively in Revelation 18.

Revelation 12 (unlike Revelation 20) describes the 2,000 years since Christ was caught up to God and to His throne, until the time of the end of the age, from the perspective of the spiritual. Revelation 6 describes the same period from the perspective of what is taking place on earth.

These are all quite clearly events that lead up to, and include the return of Christ. Therefore from Revelation 6 to Revelation 19 you have (1) The age in-between the ascension of Christ and His return being described; and (2) The events leading up to and culminating in the return of Christ being described in great detail, and using a great deal of symbolism.


Revelation 20 stands completely apart from the rest in that Revelation 20 mentions none of those events. None of them - and Revelation 20 begins by talking about Satan, who had just recently given the beast his power, seat and great authority, being bound and locked in the abyss for what the Greek word used describes as a one-thousand year period, during which he is totally incapacitated in terms of his ability to deceive the nations or anything else. Revelation 20 also states that those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Christ AND refused to worship the beast or his image, or receive his mark or number of his name, will LIVE AND REIGN WITH CHRIST for what the Greek word used identifies as a one-thousand year period.

What Revelation 20 is describing is as vastly different from what Revelation 6-19 is describing as what Revelation 21 and 22 is. Revelation 21 & 22 are also describing something vastly different to Revelation 20.

How you can fail to see the complete difference between what these chapters are describing, would be beyond my ability to grasp, were it not for the fact that I understand that once someone has believed the tenets of a theological sand castle built on the sea's side of the high tide mark, it's almost as impossible for him to change his mind as it is for someone who believes it's OK to kneel and pray before a statue representing a dead saint to channel his prayers to Christ through.

Besides that, your insistence that the Revelation is not in chronological order falls flat if you claim that Revelation 21 & 22 follows chronologically in time after all the other chapters, from chapter 6-20.

Besides that in my OP in this thread I have proved to you that you cannot prove Satan is currently bound in the abyss, without employing sheer conjecture.

Besides that you cannot explain why the Greek uses a word in Revelation 20 that means a one-thousand year period, and nothing else - not a one-thousand year period that is "actually symbolic and is actually thousands of years" - but literally, a one-thousand year period.

Chapter 20 of the Revelation is not describing anything that chapters 6-19 are describing - just as chapters 21 & 22 are not describing anything that chapters 6-19 are describing, or that chapter 20 is describing.

The fact that you insist and keep yourself blinded to the false notion that Revelation chapter 20 is describing the same things that chapters 6-19 are describing, can only mean that you have become self-brainwashed by your acceptance of a theological castle of sand that is built on the sea's side of the high tide mark.

PS: You're still a believer in Christ and you will be part of that first resurrection described in Revelation 20 - because it's the same resurrection of the saints that takes place when the Lord appears to gather His elect, and the same resurrection that those who are Christ's at His coming will be part of, and the same resurrection that the two witnesses will be part of - because the dead in Christ will rise first, as you know.

What the beginning of Revelation 20 describes is something that takes place following (a) the defeat of the beast described in a good few of the previous chapters; and (b) the throwing of the beast & false prophet into the lake of fire. All those who received the mark of the beast will also be tormented with fire and brimstone from this time forward too - they are those whom Matthew 25:41 & 46 are talking about, and whom Revelation 14:9-12 are talking about. But the devil is only thrown into the same lake of fire after he has been released again for a short while and gathered his Gog-Magog armies against the camp of the saints. Fire comes down from God and destroys those armies, and the devil is only then thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are.

You can stand on your head and whistle God save the Queen through your nose if you like, it will not change the fact that Revelation 20 is describing something that is not described in any chapter before it, and something which is to follow the return of Christ and the end of the age.

BABerean2 said:

The text below proves your statement above to be in error.
It proves beyond any shadow of a doubt the correlation between Revelation 20 and the earlier chapters.

Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?

Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?



Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


.

Click to expand...

Your recapitulation exists in your own head, but not in the Revelation. Revelation 20 is as vastly different from Revelation 6-19 in the things it describes as Revelation 21 & 22 are.

Besides that Revelation 18 is describing the destruction of the Great harlot, which is a city, which is attacked by the beast, who is controlled by Satan. Is Satan attacking his own sorceress when his beast is attacking Babylon the Great?

Babylon the Great has absolutely nothing to do with Satan's destruction in the lake of fire - this has been pointed out to you many, many times, yet you just keep on joining passages together in time that do not belong together in time.

In your puzzling puzzle you've got the Rhino horn attached to the elephant's head and the house perched on top of the chimney.

You've got some work to do - "Going back to the drawing board" stuff. Tip: Start by taking the Revelation on its word without insisting that a one-thousand year period = thousands of years.