Is the thousand years of Revelation chapter 20 symbolic?

jgr · Nov 1, 2020

Timtofly said:
No doubt about it that the church was raptured and presented to God as one body in Paradise before 144k males were sealed on the earth.

Are they part of the church before the final seal is opened? Yes, but they are not glorified and in Paradise. They have a task on earth to do. The church is in Paradise with God forever. The 6th seal is the end of the church on earth. The 7th seal is the beginning of the 144k on the earth. Why conflate the two groups when John took the effort to define and point out that the church was complete and with God, and the 144k were sealed and on the earth with the Lamb?

The historical true Church was unanimous in its recognition that the Church would endure antichrist and be on earth to the end.

It knew nothing of a rapture, which did not appear until the 19th century.

I cast my lot with them.

Timtofly · Nov 1, 2020

jgr said:
The historical true Church was unanimous in its recognition that the Church would endure antichrist and be on earth to the end.

It knew nothing of a rapture, which did not appear until the 19th century.

I cast my lot with them.

Is that the church that was being accused of being antichrist? Is that the church that martyred those who tried to expose Satan? You do realize the true church was martyred in every generation and the victors were the keepers of the history. Every generation endured antichrist until the end of their lives. Some lasted longer than those martyred. No one endured to the end. The end would be less than 120 years of age. If you mean the church waited in anticipation for 1990 years until the Antichrist appeared, that seems to be a strange thing to anticipate. Casting lots with the harlot church is probably not what you meant, but... The true church were martyred year after year as heretics. So if it is Bible and many think you are a heretic, then you are waiting for Christ and it is not a gambling game, but a sure thing.

So if there is no rapture, all the church will be dead when Christ returns? Did not anyone think they would be alive at that moment?

jgr · Nov 1, 2020

Timtofly said:
The true church were martyred year after year as heretics.

True. They knew nothing of a rapture, and they were not raptured.

For 1700 years until the 19th century.

It is a modernist fallacy.

The historical true Church was deserving of rapture, but were not raptured.

The true Church today is far less deserving of rapture, and will not be raptured.

Timtofly · Nov 1, 2020

jgr said:
True. They knew nothing of a rapture, and they were not raptured.

For 1700 years until the 19th century.

It is a modernist fallacy.

The historical true Church was deserving of rapture, but were not raptured.

The true Church today is far less deserving of rapture, and will not be raptured.

So if you are alive, you will not meet the Lord in the air, raptured? Because of apostasy you will never be part of the church in heaven?

Why would dying make a difference? If you died or were alive, it is the same, no?

Zao is life · Nov 1, 2020

DavidPT · Nov 3, 2020

Spiritual Jew said:
But, does the second death have power over you right now? How about over anyone who is currently in heaven (their souls)?

In other words, does the second death have power over us up until the time our bodies are changed to be immortal or does it cease to have power over us even before that?

I haven't had an internet connection for the past 7 or 8 days. I have a lot of catching up to do. As I was reading through some of these posts, I decided to try and address what you stated here.

As to me, I only see it making sense that the 2nd death having no power over someone is when they have been literally bodily raised and made immortal. You seem to think it's more of a state of mind, because that's what it would have to be if one were to apply that to the here and now, this side of life. The 2nd death has to do with the LOF.

When Christ returns the LOF is actually in view, the fact the beast and fp are seen being cast into it at the time. Yet, Revelation 19 doesn't show anyone else also being cast into it at the time, and this includes the ones Christ slays in verse 21. The text doesn't say they were also cast into the LOF at that time. What happens to them then? Doesn't Revelation 20:5 tell us exactly what-----But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished?

It seems to me, that anyone who has part in the first resurrection can never lose that resurrection once they have part in it. And the fact I'm of the NOSAS camp rather than the OSAS camp, Amil makes zero sense to me in that regards. Because that would mean some can lose part in the first resurrection if NOSAS is the correct position. Clearly, NOSAS is the correct position, regardless that many admantly disagree. That aside, per Premil though, once someone has part in the first resurrection, meaning they are bodily raised and made immortal, that position agrees with the text, since there is no way in a billion years anyone could ever lose bodily immortality once that occurs. But one can certainly lose their salvation in the end, which then means, according to how Amil interprets the first resurrection, one can have part in the first resurrection and lose part in it in the end. Which then means some of them were only blessed and holy for a short while rather than for forever.

DavidPT · Nov 3, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER

If there's one thing threads like these show beyond the shadow of any doubt, it's that A/Pre millennialists either ignore passages which collide with their A/Pre-mill theology, or interpret them in the "light" of their A/Pre-mil theology, and as a result, A/Premils all wind up with back-to-front and upside-down interpretations of many passages of scripture.

The OP in this thread and many other posts made by Pre-mils have shown very clearly that Amil has some serious scriptural problems that refutes Amil. The A-mils who posted in this thread have shown that Pre-mil has some serious scriptural problems that refutes Pre-mil.

So let's recap on a few facts and questions before we talk about "time":-

Revelation 2:26-29
And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations.
And he will rule (Greek ποιμαίνω poimaínō shepherd) them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father.
And I will give him the Morning Star.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

In the Lord's words above, there is a conditional promise made. Those who overcome and keep the Lord's works to the end, the same will be given power over the nations.

The question is, "to the end" of what? If it is to the end of the life of the people to whom the promise is made, then the promise that they will rule over the nations is something which is to come after the end of their lives,

but if it's to the end of a period of tribulation, then the question arises, Has there ever been a time when all saints received power of the nations, and ruled (shepherded them) with a rod of iron?

Jesus said to those who followed Him while He was on the earth:

"Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging (Greek κρίνω krínō) the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 24:28)

Does this mean that they will sit with Him at the time of the Great White Throne? Or would this mean ruling over, as the judges of Israel did which we read about in the book of Judges? The Greek word for judging in Matthew 24:28 is: G2919 κρίνω KRI/NW krínō kree'-no properly, to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially); by implication, to try, condemn, punish:--avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

The next question is, in light of these promises, is Matthew 25:31-42 the same as the Great White Throne, as those who do not believe in a literal thousand years claim?

If so, how can this be, since Paul tells us that at the time of the end, Christ will cause all rule and authority and power to cease, and hand the Kingdom back to God the Father (I Corinthians 15:21-28):

"But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;
then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.

for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.
The last enemy made to cease is death.
For He put all things under His feet. But when He says that all things have been put under His feet, it is plain that it excepts Him who has put all things under Him.

But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected things to Him, so that God may be all things in all."

Quite clearly then:

1. According to the promises of Jesus, there is a time coming when the saints will be ruling as judges over the nations, and over the twelve tribes of Israel.

2. This will only be given to those who have overcome and who have kept the words of Christ to the end.

3. This is before the Great White Throne, for at the time of the Great White Throne, Christ will cause all rule and authority and power to cease, and Jesus promises to those who overcome and keep His words to the end, that "to him I will give power over the nations. And he will rule (Greek ποιμαίνω poimaínō shepherd) them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father."

5. The Greek word which translates into English as "a thousand years" in Revelation 20 is χιλιάς (chiliás), and it denotes a one-thousand year period, and cannot be interpreted as symbolically meaning thousands of years which parallel the age in-between Pentecost and the appearance of Christ in His glory, without defying all the rules of grammar.

6. In Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus is seated on the throne of His glory, and all nations have been gathered before Him, to be judged.

In this passage, the Lord is judging them according to how they treated those whom He calls His brothers, saying that as they did to them, they did to Him.

NOTICE:-

(A) They are being judged by their works, just as at the time of the Great White throne following the close of the millennium in Revelation 20 - but this is happening at the appearance of Christ at the end of this age.

(B) In the Revelation, after death and hades have delivered up all the dead still in them, these too, are judged by their works, and those whose names are still not found in the Lamb's Book of Life at that point, are thrown into the Lake of Fire, just as Mat 25:46 states will happen to those nations on the left.

(C) The saints are not judged by their works.

(D) In Mat 25:31-46 those who treated the saints well, are called "righteous" and "blessed of my Father" by the Lord (Mat 25:34, 37).

(E) The same people as in (D) "inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world." (Mat 25:33).

(F) There is no reason to assume that the events of Mat.25:31-46 will take place at the end of this age when Christ appears in the clouds and gathers His elect, but there is also no reason to assume that these events will not happen at that time.

"First Resurrection".

The Greek word egeírō (ἐγείρω) is one of the the verbs found in the New Testament, very often used in reference to the bodily rising again from death. When syn appears prefixed to egeírō (synegeírō), it shows that the resurrection of the individual believer in Christ is something which occurs with Christ's resurrection. It's the same prefix we get with words like synthesis and synchronize.

Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with [συνεγείρω synegeírō] Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

Compare this with Romans 6:5:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

There is only one resurrection - and Christ is the resurrection and the Life:

John 11:23-26
"Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.

Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Christ is the resurrection and the Life. Any resurrection to take place after Christ's, takes place because of Christ's resurrection and with (synegeírō) His resurrection. There is no "second" resurrection (or third, or fourth). Those who rise from the dead when Christ appears are those who are Christ's at His coming, according to Paul in I Corinthians 15:22-26:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.

The last enemy made to cease is death."

THE OVERLAP

Therefore not only in Matthew 25:31-46, but in many New Testament verses speaking about judgment unto life or death, there is an overlap - with BOTH a literal thousand-year reign of the saints in the Kingdom of Christ following the judgment, AND the New Heavens and New Earth following the judgment.

I realize that A-mills will find this hard to accept, because their minds are stuck in a two-dimensional, linear approach to "time", but it CAN be both.

One one hand, there is a reign of Christ coming, and the resurrected saints with Him, when Satan is bound (truly bound) and shut up in the abyss (truly shut up in it), unable to deceive the nations until the thousand years are finished, because he will be totally incapacitated during the thousand years.

There will be one final rebellion when Satan has been released again, and goes out deceiving the nations again, gathering the nations in the four corners of the earth - Gog and Magog - against the camp of the saints, and this rebellion is brought to an end when fire comes down from heaven and devours them (unlike when the beast and false prophet were thrown into the lake of fire a thousand years earlier).

Yet the Kingdom of Christ exists now in the world, has existed for 2,000 years and will exist forever. He is the One who is, who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

The universe has always been the Kingdom which belongs to God, and if the King allows an adversary to cause havoc in His Kingdom, then it's because:

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways My ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the rain comes down, and the snow from the heavens, and does not return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring out and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
so shall My word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall certainly do what I sent it to do." Isaiah 55:8-11

If the King of a Kingdom wants to prevent His adversary from creating havoc in His Kingdom, He would need to either bind His adversary and lock him in a dungeon, OR destroy him.

If a murderer who has been in prison for 20 years claims he is rehabilitated and pleads for his release, promising to go and serve humanity afterward, and is released on probation to see what he will do, but then goes out and murders someone again, would the state be just if it gives the man the death penalty the second time around?

Would our King need to bind His adversary and lock Him in a dungeon if the King wanted to rule over His Kingdom unhindered by an adversary? And if our King released His adversary again on probation after a thousand years to see what he will do, and then destroys His adversary in the lake of fire after His adversary goes out committing the exact same acts of sinful rebellion against God again, would our King be just?

The Kingdom of Christ has already come. The Kingdom of Christ is coming. The Kingdom of Christ just IS: Christ is He who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. The NHNE is linked to "no time" (a.k.a "eternity"). Eternity is not "coming in the future". Eternity IS, WAS and it IS TO COME. If "No-time" (a.k.a "eternity") is the air, then "time" is one aspect of the contents of the gas balloon floating around in the air. Time is linked to the activities, events, cycles of birth, life and death in the creation, in the universe.

Hence the removal of the curse was accomplished and completed by Christ Himself in His death and resurrection. It's not something that "will only be in the future when the NHNE comes". And certain things overlap, as can be seen from what happened twice before on the exact same day of the year, and as can be seen by what has been said regarding John the Baptist and Elijah:

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There is much that you submitted here that I agree with you about. I wanted to press the agree button but was a bit reluctant since I'm not on the same page with everything you submitted. I would say 98% I agree with, the other 2% I'm not so sure about. The 2% mainly having to do with your take on Matthew 25.

Spiritual Jew · Nov 3, 2020

DavidPT said:
I haven't had an internet connection for the past 7 or 8 days. I have a lot of catching up to do. As I was reading through some of these posts, I decided to try and address what you stated here.

As to me, I only see it making sense that the 2nd death having no power over someone is when they have been literally bodily raised and made immortal. You seem to think it's more of a state of mind, because that's what it would have to be if one were to apply that to the here and now, this side of life. The 2nd death has to do with the LOF.

John was speaking of people who he saw in heaven and were physically dead and he said they had part in the first resurrection and the second death had no power over them. So, with that in mind, please tell me what power the second death (being cast into the lake of fire) has over those souls who are in heaven with Christ right now. Please be specific.

It seems to me, that anyone who has part in the first resurrection can never lose that resurrection once they have part in it.

I can accept that if John was intending to say what you're saying because scripture does indicate that believers will receive the victor's crown if they remain faithful unto death (Rev 2:10) and that they cannot be hurt by the second death at that point.

Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown. 11 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death.

There's no basis for thinking that the second death would still have power over someone who remained faithful unto death. Once they die physically with their faith intact, then it is guaranteed that they "will not be hurt at all by the second death" and therefore the second death has no power over them immediately upon their physical death when their souls go to heaven.

And the fact I'm of the NOSAS camp rather than the OSAS camp, Amil makes zero sense to me in that regards.

How about what I said above? Does it make more sense with what I said there? I am NOSAS, also, but at the same time scripture indicates that we can feel very confident about our eternal destiny even now. But, we have to remain faithful unto death and not ignore the warnings about turning away from the living God (Heb 3:12).

Because that would mean some can lose part in the first resurrection if NOSAS is the correct position. Clearly, NOSAS is the correct position, regardless that many admantly disagree.

I agree that it's the correct position and I'm amil, so you should not think that being amil equates to being OSAS. However, I'm not really seeing the problem if one is OSAS and believes we have part in His resurrection spiritually even before death. You're correct that if they're wrong and NOSAS is true then that would mean someone could lose their part in the first resurrection. But, if one has part in it spiritually then how is the idea of losing one's part in the resurrection any different than our belief that they can lose their salvation?

See, you always only look at things from your own perspective and rarely have any real understanding of anyone else's perspective. I believe it can be understood from a spiritual standpoint in terms of spiritually having part in Christ's resurrection by way of being "raised up" from being dead in sins to being with Christ (Ephesians 2:1-6) without a problem, but I'm also fine with it if it means to have part in His resurrection upon physical death after having been faithful unto death.

That aside, per Premil though, once someone has part in the first resurrection, meaning they are bodily raised and made immortal, that position agrees with the text, since there is no way in a billion years anyone could ever lose bodily immortality once that occurs. But one can certainly lose their salvation in the end, which then means, according to how Amil interprets the first resurrection, one can have part in the first resurrection and lose part in it in the end. Which then means some of them were only blessed and holy for a short while rather than for forever.

How is that different from our belief that one can be saved "for a short while rather than for forever"? Can you see how someone could say similar things about our NOSAS belief as what you're saying about the belief that someone has part in the first resurrection spiritually before they die? The reason for that is because they believe we have part in the first resurrection when we become saved.

BABerean2 · Nov 3, 2020

DavidPT said:
But one can certainly lose their salvation in the end, which then means, according to how Amil interprets the first resurrection, one can have part in the first resurrection and lose part in it in the end.

Those who have truly been "born again" of the Spirit of God, as found in John 3:1-16, and John 14:26, and Acts of the Apostles 11:15-16, and Romans 8:9, 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27, will not lose their salvation.

If the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20 is the spiritual resurrection found in John 5:24, it would agree perfectly with the scripture found above.

.

Timtofly · Nov 3, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Those who have truly been "born again" of the Spirit of God, as found in John 3:1-16, and John 14:26, and Acts of the Apostles 11:15-16, and Romans 8:9, 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27, will not lose their salvation.

If the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20 is the spiritual resurrection found in John 5:24, it would agree perfectly with the scripture found above.

Except it does not state that it is a spiritual resurrection one bit. They are brought to life, judged, and then given incorruptible bodies. Then they do not die forever. They are still alive on earth today reigning with Christ in Jerusalem waiting for Satan to attack.

John 5:24 states no judgment period. This verse has nothing to do with Revelation 20:4 period.

BABerean2 · Nov 3, 2020

Timtofly said:
John 5:24 states no judgment period. This verse has nothing to do with Revelation 20:4 period.

If a person was dead and then came to life, what would an unbiased witness call it?

The spiritual resurrection is found in John 5:24, and the bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead is just a few verses later in John 5:27-30.

.

Timtofly · Nov 4, 2020

BABerean2 said:
If a person was dead and then came to life, what would an unbiased witness call it?

The spiritual resurrection is found in John 5:24, and the bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead is just a few verses later in John 5:27-30.

No the physical resurrection for the church is verse 24. So they can be the judges in 27-30. Now you say we are not even spiritually raised on the Cross? I thought that was settled. Now you say even the spiritual resurrection is future?

If I as one who never died, see a person walk out of a tomb in a perfect body that can never die again, I would congratulate them on having a bodily resurrection. Will I be seated on a throne in this scenario?

Or would your unbiased viewer be someone in sheol looking on, knowing about it, but unable to participate in it?

BABerean2 · Nov 4, 2020

Timtofly said:
Now you say even the spiritual resurrection is future?

No.

John saw "souls" at the beginning of Revelation 20. Souls are found in heaven.

How many of our dead Brothers, and Sisters, are there now? Their spiritual resurrection has already happened.

Rev_6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

.

Zao is life · Nov 4, 2020

DavidPT said:
There is much that you submitted here that I agree with you about. I wanted to press the agree button but was a bit reluctant since I'm not on the same page with everything you submitted. I would say 98% I agree with, the other 2% I'm not so sure about. The 2% mainly having to do with your take on Matthew 25.

It would be good to hear your take on Mat 25:31-46, and especially when verse 46 will be fulfilled; and the following is why:

THE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE NATIONS TO BE PUNISHED

I believe the everlasting punishment is the lake of fire (see verse 41: "Then He also shall say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels")

In Revelation 14:9-11 the world is warned, "If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

The everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mat 25:41) is just that - the fire that has been prepared for Satan and his angels. Revelation 20 has Satan and his angels being thrown into the lake of fire at the close of the millennium, but the beast and false prophet are thrown into it before the start of the millennium. So the everlasting punishment that Mat 25:41, 46 is talking about, might remain a punishment for the wicked which remains pending for a thousand years (not "pending for review", but pending execution), but the people of the nations in this group might also be thrown into the lake of fire when the beast and its false prophet are thrown into it.

THE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE NATIONS CALLED "RIGHTEOUS"

I also believe the righteous mentioned in these verses could be mortals who will have eternal life going into the (literal) millennium, having repented of their unbelief in Christ when they saw Him appear in the clouds to gather His elect (Matthew 24:29-31), and saw the resurrection of those who had died in Christ, and the rest of the saints being changed and being "caught up together with them, to meet the Lord in the air" (I Thessalonians 4:15-18)

The above would be in the same way that His saints are now mortal, and have eternal life now - but those in the nations who will be declared righteous will have repented of their unbelief in Christ too late for the resurrection of those who are Christ's at His coming, so the second death still has power over them if they are still alive, have been declared righteous by their works (how they had treated the saints).

Why would the second death still have power over those in the above group? Well it's because they have not yet been resurrected (and as I pointed out to SJ, the only way we can believe that the second death has no power over someone before they have risen from the dead, is if we believe in OSAS).

(I'm talking about people who are still alive, not about those who have already died in Christ - those who have already died in Christ will rise from the dead, and the second death will therefore have no power over them). If we believe that the second death has no power over mortals who are still in the flesh while we are still alive and believe in Christ, then we believe in OSAS.

I also believe I could be wrong (or partially wrong) about what I say regarding Mat 25:31-46, so it would be good to hear your take on it.

BABerean2 · Nov 4, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
I also believe the righteous mentioned in these verses could be mortals who will have eternal life going into the (literal) millennium, having repented of their unbelief in Christ when they saw Him appear in the clouds to gather His elect (amt 24:29-31), and saw the resurrection of those who had died in Christ, and the rest of the saints being changed and being "caught up together with them, to meet the Lord in the air" (I Thessalonians 4:15-18)

Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know Him.
There will be no second chances of salvation at His Second Coming.

This fact is confirmed by the parable of the virgins in Matthew 25:1-13.
They must be ready before the Bridegroom comes.

The timing of Matthew 25:31-46 is found in verse 31, at His Second Coming.
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of verse 46.

.

Zao is life · Nov 4, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know Him.

This fact is confirmed by the parable of the virgins in Matthew 25:1-13.
They must be ready before the Bridegroom comes.

The timing of Matthew 25:31-46 is found in verse 31, at His Second Coming.

Are the saints judged by their works, or by the works of Christ, and their faith in Him?

He who believes is not condemned:

JUDGED BY THEIR FAITH

John 3
" 14 But even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up,
15 so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.
18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God."

JUDGED BY THEIR WORKS

In Mat 25:31-46, the nations who are gathered at the return of Christ, are ALL seen to be calling Jesus "Lord", and ALL are judged by their works - those who are declared righteous, and those who are declared unrighteous.

Those who are declared unrighteous are sent to the fire prepared for Satan and his angels (Mat 25:41,46), but those who are declared righteous because of their works are called "Blessed of My Father" by Christ, and they are invited into His Kingdom: "Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." (Mat 25:34).

So based on Matthew 25:31-46, your statements quoted above are true, but your statements quoted below cannot be true:

BABerean2 said:
There will be no second chances of salvation at His Second Coming.

There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of verse 46.

@BABerean2

Further to what I wrote above:

II Thesslonians 1
5 For this is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God for which you also suffer,
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay tribulation to those who trouble you,

7 and to give rest with us to you who are troubled, at the revealing of the Lord Jesus from Heaven with the angels of His power,

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
9 who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

10 when He shall come to be glorified in His saints and to be admired in all those who believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that Day.

It agrees 100% with what is written in Matthew 25:31-46 - those who treated the saints well are declared righteous for their works, and the rest are sent to the flames.

Zao is life · Nov 4, 2020

jgr said:
The historical true Church was unanimous in its recognition that the Church would endure antichrist and be on earth to the end.

It knew nothing of a rapture, which did not appear until the 19th century.

I cast my lot with them.

So do I but only because that's what I get from the Bible when I read it.

thlipsis-skandalizo-son of perdition.png

BABerean2 · Nov 4, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
It agrees 100% with what is written in Matthew 25:31-46 - those who treated the saints well are declared righteous for their works, and the rest are sent to the flames.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of the verse above?

.

Zao is life · Nov 4, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of the verse above?

.

I'll let you apply for the position of Chief Census Official when the time comes, because the Bible does not give us the figure.

BABerean2 · Nov 4, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
I'll let you apply for the position of Chief Census Official when the time comes, because the Bible does not give us the figure.

An unbiased witness would be able to see the number.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Your problem is if you admit what the text actually says, it kills the Premill doctrine.
No mortals, no Premill doctrine...

.

Is the thousand years of Revelation chapter 20 symbolic?

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