- Dec 13, 2015
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My question is a physiological one. It's constantly been going over in my mind over the course of the last few weeks or so. It goes like this, For those who believe that God is sovereign over all, how can we fail to accomplish God's plan over our lives if he is completely sovereign over all? Forget the questions of fairness, or "How free we really are." and lets just get down to the bare meat of it all. Can we as God's children, whom God is working on sanctifying each and every morning and night of our lives fail to fulfill the plan that God has set out for us if God is completely sovereign? I get this idea from many pastors on YouTube and I'm curious as to how it can be true if God is sovereign?
For those who don't believe that God is sovereign over all 1. How can you have this viewpoint when the Bible say that he is? (1 Chronicles 29:11-12, Proverbs 16:9, Job 42:2,Isaiah 46:9-10 ...etc) and 2. Where does this come from since your beliefs and teachings are not found in the bible?
I hear this a lot and constantly from members on this forum, members of YouTube, Pastors & more. Yet, this massive intrigues me. I thought at the very least the Reformed Church would be pushing for God accomplishing all that God has set out to do but, I have even seen REFORMED Preachers spreading this nonsense. I mean, if God's complete sovereignty over our lives is true, how can we possibly fail to use the gifts and talents that God has given us? How can we possibly fail to live a life of any kind that is against where God wants us to be? Yes, I know that God allows us to disobey us with his permission, I know that Satan tempts us with God's permission but, I'm talking about in the end. How can we die never fulfilling God's purpose for our lives when all God sets out to accomplish he does (Isaiah 46:9-10)? Also, lets say for the sake of argument that we do, if God is completely sovereign over all wouldn't that mean that God just didn't make a plan for your life? After all, David says in Psalm 139:16:
"Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."
I've heard people explain this verse away by saying that God knew what days we would live because God knows all and he just wrote down everyday that he foresaw we would live. Yes, this is half true but that's not what David is saying. David is saying that every single one of David's days were planned out by God. Otherwise, why would David say that all the days "formed" for him were written down? David also meant that every single one of OUR days were planned out by God. So really, there are only two options here. 1. We cannot fail to live out the life that God planned for each and everyone of us. Or, 2. God never wanted us to have works and we are Goats.
But, that's just my opinion, my interpretation of scripture, and the only thing that makes logical sense to me in a world where God is in complete control of all. But, I'm curious about the defense of the other views. I mean, take a look at what Jesus said in Matthew 25:32-46.
He separates the world into two different categories, sheep and goats.
God's sheep did the works that God wanted and required of them and Jesus says to them "
Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."
The Goats were "believers" who did no works and took salvation for granted and hence were thrown into the lake of fire. Now before you all go "We are not saved by our works we are saved by grace" exactly! Goats are people who think they're chosen by God but in reality, they're not. Goats are people who think but yet, their literal zero works prove that they are not a child of God at all. We are not saved by our works but we are saved by a lifelong faith THAT works.
Just like some people leave the faith because they were never regenerated by God, we know a true sheep by their works. Works, that God NATURALLY works into his sheep. There is no failing to do the works God requires of us and if we do fail, we are no sheep of his. I'm just wondering where this came from because I'm massively confused. This teaching is coming from people educated on the Bible yet, they seem to leave God's sovereignty out of what they are saying. They just say "So many Christians don't do works or just live like the devil." and I just want to scream at said Pastor "Duh, but those people aren't Christians because if they were Christians they would be showing fruit and not living like the devil." A large part of salvation is Repentance. How can you Repent and then afterwards live like the devil and have the Holy Spirit living in you? You can't.
For those who don't believe that God is sovereign over all 1. How can you have this viewpoint when the Bible say that he is? (1 Chronicles 29:11-12, Proverbs 16:9, Job 42:2,Isaiah 46:9-10 ...etc) and 2. Where does this come from since your beliefs and teachings are not found in the bible?
I hear this a lot and constantly from members on this forum, members of YouTube, Pastors & more. Yet, this massive intrigues me. I thought at the very least the Reformed Church would be pushing for God accomplishing all that God has set out to do but, I have even seen REFORMED Preachers spreading this nonsense. I mean, if God's complete sovereignty over our lives is true, how can we possibly fail to use the gifts and talents that God has given us? How can we possibly fail to live a life of any kind that is against where God wants us to be? Yes, I know that God allows us to disobey us with his permission, I know that Satan tempts us with God's permission but, I'm talking about in the end. How can we die never fulfilling God's purpose for our lives when all God sets out to accomplish he does (Isaiah 46:9-10)? Also, lets say for the sake of argument that we do, if God is completely sovereign over all wouldn't that mean that God just didn't make a plan for your life? After all, David says in Psalm 139:16:
"Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."
I've heard people explain this verse away by saying that God knew what days we would live because God knows all and he just wrote down everyday that he foresaw we would live. Yes, this is half true but that's not what David is saying. David is saying that every single one of David's days were planned out by God. Otherwise, why would David say that all the days "formed" for him were written down? David also meant that every single one of OUR days were planned out by God. So really, there are only two options here. 1. We cannot fail to live out the life that God planned for each and everyone of us. Or, 2. God never wanted us to have works and we are Goats.
But, that's just my opinion, my interpretation of scripture, and the only thing that makes logical sense to me in a world where God is in complete control of all. But, I'm curious about the defense of the other views. I mean, take a look at what Jesus said in Matthew 25:32-46.
He separates the world into two different categories, sheep and goats.
God's sheep did the works that God wanted and required of them and Jesus says to them "
Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."
The Goats were "believers" who did no works and took salvation for granted and hence were thrown into the lake of fire. Now before you all go "We are not saved by our works we are saved by grace" exactly! Goats are people who think they're chosen by God but in reality, they're not. Goats are people who think but yet, their literal zero works prove that they are not a child of God at all. We are not saved by our works but we are saved by a lifelong faith THAT works.
Just like some people leave the faith because they were never regenerated by God, we know a true sheep by their works. Works, that God NATURALLY works into his sheep. There is no failing to do the works God requires of us and if we do fail, we are no sheep of his. I'm just wondering where this came from because I'm massively confused. This teaching is coming from people educated on the Bible yet, they seem to leave God's sovereignty out of what they are saying. They just say "So many Christians don't do works or just live like the devil." and I just want to scream at said Pastor "Duh, but those people aren't Christians because if they were Christians they would be showing fruit and not living like the devil." A large part of salvation is Repentance. How can you Repent and then afterwards live like the devil and have the Holy Spirit living in you? You can't.
