The Beast that was and is not identified

Timtofly said:

God would not let just some human FP call the shots and demand to be allowed to do anything.

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God is allowing evil to take place in the world for His reasons. Adoph Hitler, a recent example of the extreme. Violence associated with organized crime, another example. So to single out that the false prophet as not being allowed to do evil makes no sense.

Timtofly said:

Some modern religious human will step forward and be the FP, as the voice of Satan to present Satan to the world. Then comes a Antichrist. Modern theology is wrong placing a human ruler first as an Antichrist. There have been many Antichrist out of this system, but after the Second Coming it will be a FP, a religious human to present Satan to the world.

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Go read Ezekiel 28:16-19. It talks about the end of Satan.

God brings a fire up in his midst. He is turned to ashes. And is exposed to the kings of the earth, that they may actually see him.

In Revelation 13:4, the world will worship Satan. And also the (first) beast.

The way all of those things are going to happen is Satan will incarnate the statue image the false prophet has made of the first beast and places it on the temple mount courtyard.

The world will worship that statue image (or be killed for refusing) - and will actually be worshiping Satan in doing so. Whether they will realize it or not at the time, is not clear.

At Jesus's Return, the outer facade of the statue image will go up in flames, turned to ashed, exposing Satan for everyone to see. And then the lone angel descends and puts Satan in chains which he will be cast into the bottomless pit.

Douggg said:

I don't know why you keep insisting two horns means two people. The second beast in Revelation 13 is the false prophet, one person.

What's your rationale of why the end of Daniel 11 proves the second beast is two persons?

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10 horns equal 10 kings. The little horn equals 1 king. Two horns equals two people.

You correctly say that one is the false prophet that gets thrown into the lake of fire. What about this guy.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Daneil 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Timtofly said:

Many humans know religions are false, even without the word of aliens. Religion has failed people. Where in Revelation does John point out technology or fallen angels?

What about the point this is only the final harvest. Satan is allowed 42 months. God is the final say on what is what. God removes all that is God from the earth. People still have a free choice to follow and worship Satan or have their head cut off. That is about as basic and non dramatic as God's Word can be.

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Not sure I follow your point. Feel free to clarify.

Douggg said:

God is allowing evil to take place in the world for His reasons. Adoph Hitler, a recent example of the extreme. Violence associated with organized crime, another example. So to single out that the false prophet as not being allowed to do evil makes no sense.

Go read Ezekiel 28:16-19. It talks about the end of Satan.

God brings a fire up in his midst. He is turned to ashes. And is exposed to the kings of the earth, that they may actually see him.

In Revelation 13:4, the world will worship Satan. And also the (first) beast.

The way all of those things are going to happen is Satan will incarnate the statue image the false prophet has made of the first beast and places it on the temple mount courtyard.

The world will worship that statue image (or be killed for refusing) - and will actually be worshiping Satan in doing so. Whether they will realize it or not at the time, is not clear.

At Jesus's Return, the outer facade of the statue image will go up in flames, turned to ashed, exposing Satan for everyone to see. And then the lone angel descends and puts Satan in chains which he will be cast into the bottomless pit.

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That is not the point. I am talking about what Satan wants to do. Satan cannot do anything without God's permission. Humans can do as they please with limits. They cannot do magic. They cannot go beyond the laws of physics. They cannot put a colony on the sun, etc.

Freedm said:

Not sure I follow your point. Feel free to clarify.

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Unless Satan has a planet of reptilian humanoids, you are out of luck with your extra biblical movie characters.

Choose Wisely said:

10 horns equal 10 kings. The little horn equals 1 king. Two horns equals two people.

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kings - when they are on the head of:

the head of the dragon in Revelation 12
the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17.
the first beast in Revelation 13.

Choose Wisely said:

You correctly say that one is the false prophet that gets thrown into the lake of fire. What about this guy.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Daneil 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

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That person in Daniel 11:45 is the beast person (the first beast) in Revelation 13 and Revelation 19:20 that gets cast alive into the lake of fire.

Daniel 12:1 about Michael standing up for Israel, and the great tribulation - "at that time" is talking about the "time of the end" in regards to history of the present age. Which at the time of the end, the person in Daniel 11:36, does his evil, and will ultimately come to his own end in Daniel 11:45.

Daniel 11:35 transitions from the days of Antiochus and the Maccabees, through to the time of Christ, and two thousand years of Christians having gone through trials, to the time of the end - when the beast is in power.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Here in this verse it is at the time of the end....

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Daniel 12:1, is speaking about that time in history, during the reign of the beast. Daniel 12:4-7 verifies it is at the time of the end.

When Michael stands up - it is a reference to Revelation 12:7-9, when Michael and his angels go to war against Satan and his angels, casting them down to earth from the second heaven, with Satan having just a time/times/half time left - and his mystical kingdom of Babylon the great, as God begins dismantling it, to it complete destruction, never to be again.

The time/times/half time in Daniel 12:7 is the time/times/half time in Revelation 12:14.

Can we stop making up stuff about Satan as if he matters ???

He has been defeated for 2000 years in the life of the believer. Stop trying to make the Gospel according to you! Personifying the adversary just creates superstition in a myth at this point

FulfilledInHim said:

Can we stop making up stuff about Satan as if he matters ???

He has been defeated for 2000 years in the life of the believer. Stop trying to make the Gospel according to you! Personifying the adversary just creates superstition in a myth at this point

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Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Douggg said:

That person in Daniel 11:45 is the beast person (the first beast) in Revelation 13 and Revelation 19:20 that gets cast alive into the lake of fire.

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Absolutely not. The person in Daniel 11:45 is the second beast. He is a King of the North that comes to his end during the great tribulation............just like the scripture says. He is the 7th king who gives his power to the eighth king..........Nimrod.

Douggg said:

Daniel 12:1 about Michael standing up for Israel, and the great tribulation - "at that time" is talking about the "time of the end" in regards to history of the present age. Which at the time of the end, the person in Daniel 11:36, does his evil, and will ultimately come to his own end in Daniel 11:45.

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There is no mystery. In Daniel, it says that this person comes to his end and that occurs during the great tribulation. It occurs when Michael stands up and there is a time of trouble as never before or again.

FulfilledInHim said:

Can we stop making up stuff about Satan as if he matters ???

He has been defeated for 2000 years in the life of the believer. Stop trying to make the Gospel according to you! Personifying the adversary just creates superstition in a myth at this point

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Can we stop making up stuff about humans, as if they matter? That Satan was defeated for 2000 years does not matter either. Why make such stuff up? Sin was defeated 1990 years ago. Why do you still sin? If you say you have no sin, then you make God a liar. What does Satan have to do with people having sin in their life?

Choose Wisely said:

There is no mystery. In Daniel, it says that this person comes to his end and that occurs during the great tribulation. It occurs when Michael stands up and there is a time of trouble as never before or again.

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The person's end comes at the end of the great tribulation. Daniel 11:45 is near the end of the great tribulation, 45 days before it.

The battles in Daniel 11:40-45 take place near the end of the 7 years; the king of the south, the king of the north, the kings of the east attacking the beast (the king of the west) and his EU army.

In Daniel 11:45, when the beast takes his stand in Jerusalem, at the temple mount, being attacked all around - unexpectedly the sixth event happens and in face of being annihilated by Jesus, all of the armies drawn into the middle east and Jerusalem, unite under the beast to make war on Jesus.

None of those things are expressly revealed in Daniel 11 or 12. It can only be understood in light of many end times prophecies found elsewhere in the bible. Which the understanding of how all of those fit together have been sealed unto our day.


Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Choose Wisely said:

Absolutely not. The person in Daniel 11:45 is the second beast. He is a King of the North that comes to his end during the great tribulation............just like the scripture says. He is the 7th king who gives his power to the eighth king..........Nimrod.

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The first beast in Revelation 13 is the one with the seven heads and ten horns. Not the second beast.

King 7 and King 8 are the same person. The ten kings will rule with the beast and give their kingdom over to him. Revelation 17:16-17. Not to the second beast.

Timtofly said:

Unless Satan has a planet of reptilian humanoids, you are out of luck with your extra biblical movie characters.

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Oh you don't believe in aliens. Fair enough. I'm just wondering, how do you explain unidentified flying objects that even the military can't explain?

Freedm said:

Oh you don't believe in aliens. Fair enough. I'm just wondering, how do you explain unidentified flying objects that even the military can't explain?

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Well the same way some think we live in a 14 billion year old universe. Satan's deception is science, so called. 1 Timothy 6:20. The knowledge (science) Satan feeds humanity is false. I do believe Satan has advanced technology. Seems foolish of Satan not to stay ahead of the humans. Humans who more than likely get all technology related items from Satan at a cost. Have you ever read the legend of the pied piper?

wisdompersonified said:

The Bible talks about the beast that was and is not, yet is in Revelation 17. John also gave us clues as to who this might be.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This tells us that this beast was alive, he's not alive now(at the time John wrote this) but he will live again most likely in the body of a present day leader.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

This is pretty clear and in this case John predicted the short reign of Nerva.
The one that is would have been Domitian. Nerva was Emperor after Domitian for 15 months. Who were the 5 that had fallen?

Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Vespasian and Titus.

Now the first 3 before Vespasian and Nerva ruled for short periods of time. Vespasian, Titus and Domitian had the biggest impact on the Jews.
Titus destroyed the 2nd Temple in 70 A.D under Vespasian as Emperor.

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Revelation (Apocalypse) 1:v.1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass(FUTURE); and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John. - Right? -

The prophecies in the book of Revelation are about times future, and were written around the year 95AD or 100AD, the prophecies and things which were written have no retroactive effect as you have imagined and posted. IOW, the prophecies have nothing to do with retroactive happenings.

The content of the book of Apocalypse is a Revelation of Jesus Christ about future things, things that would go to happen yet, except, yes, except the description of the current decaying spiritual state of the seven Churches in Asia - chapters 2 and 3 - , whose churches were contemporary with John, somewhere around the years 95-100AD.

Honestly, interpreting the things of Apocalypse retroactively long before the year 95 is a blunder. Unless it is required to modify the Bible to adapt these human views, to their non-revelatory interpretations.

Douggg said:

The kings of Revelation 17:10-11. Of the Julio-Claudian family.

king 1 Julius Caesar
king 2 Augustus Caesar
king 3 Tiberius
king 4 Caligula
king 5 Claudius
king 6 Nero

king 7 the end times little horn person (leader of the EU)
king 8 (formally king 7) the beast (dictator of the EU)

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It is wrong Douggg.

Freedm said:

Oh you don't believe in aliens. Fair enough. I'm just wondering, how do you explain unidentified flying objects that even the military can't explain?

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There are no aliens. That's bogus bull made up to explain the secret pretribulation rapture that will occur. Satan is aware what will happen and he has his explanation. In the early 50's there were so many calls to Washington about cigar shaped objects that they had to shut off the switchboards. Blimps, no doubt. As for today, there is certainly advanced aircraft that the military is unaware of. When the time comes, at the rapture, there will be all kinds of UFO's and holograms that will convince most that the aliens have come. It's all a lie.

Freedm said:

If the sea, out of which the first beast rises, represents the nations, what does the earth, from which the second beast rises, represent?

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You are right, the Bible confirms what you wrote "the sea, out of which the first beast rises, represents the nations" : Revelation 17:v.15 - 15 And the angel saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. The Beast of sea is a Gentile Beast upon which rides the great harlot, actually, she is the woman full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns-Revelation 17:v.1-3.
NOTE; In the current time the Beast of sea has only and only the 7 heads. The ten horns will be linked with the Beast of sea, only and only when the false messiah(John 5:v.43), the Beast of the earth, manifest himself as God, Who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2Thes.2

About your question: "what does the earth, from which the second beast rises, represent?"

The second Beast, this MAN will come up out of the earth (ISRAEL-the clay); and he has two horns like a lamb (a false lamb, in fact a false messiah as was prophesied by JESUS-John 5:v.43), and he spake as a Dragon -Revelation 13:v.11 - the red Dragon. His two HORNS represent two kingdoms of Israel-the clay/the earth.

Therefore, there will be TWO terrible Beasts which will reign over the earth very soon, even in this new decade that just started.

The people of God must get ready.

Freedm said:

And Dougg, why do you believe "the earth" is representative of Israel?

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Excuse-me to share. Who revealed about the Beast of the earth was JESUS. The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy. Rev. 19:v.10

wisdompersonified said:

The beast from the earth is a religious leader and is selected by his congregation. The second beast does miracles and he has two horns like a lamb but spake as a dragon.

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You are right. "The -MAN- beast from the earth is a religious leader and is selected by his congregation" - Judaism. Actually a FALSE lamb, more precisely a FALSE messiah, the ESOTERIC, and KABBALISTIC and SPIRITIST ruthless messiah of the Jews, spiritually a former Cherub, the SON of perdition, the MAN of sin (2Thes.2: v.1a12). Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan. Revelation 13:v.11-18 describes the profile of this MAN who has deep knowledge of a Torah - or Old Testament -, with all power and signs and lying wonders and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Revelation 13:v.11-18 describes the profile of this ruthless man.

Get ready