Can Christians Live a Holy Life?

  • Yes (Christians can live holy by their own merits or power).

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes (Christians are changed to a point where they cannot help but to do so).

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No (Other explanation; Please explain)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Maybe. It depends (Please explain).

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23

chad kincham

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Can Christians live a holy life?

Note:

I am not asking this question because I doubt that a believer can live a holy life. I do believe that a believer can live holy by God's power (Thereby giving Him the glory); My question is asked so as to see what Christians today say about this kind of question.

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us.

Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.

That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.
 
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chad kincham

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Notice how you did not address 2 Corinthians 7:1. You just jumped into those verses you think defend your view of Soteriology.

Anyways, 1 John 2:1-2 is in view of confessing of sin to be forgiven of sin. For 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Charlie, do you believe you can be cleansed from all unrighteousness? 1 John 1:9 teaches that. That is what confession is for. Also, how can you be forgiven or saved if the condtion is to confess of sin in order to be forgiven of sin? 1 John 1:9 says to confess and we will be forgiven. It does not say we are just forgiven by having a belief alone on Jesus.

1 John 1:7 also essentially says if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Most Christians believe the blood of Christ saves us. Now, according to 1 John 1:7, the condition of the blood of Jesus cleansing us if we walk in the light. Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the use of indirect words in 1 John 2:9-11.

Plus, 1 John 2:1 tells us to “sin not.” So John is not advocating the idea that we must always commit mortal sin or that committing mortal sin is inevitable.

As for Romans 6:1: Not sure you understand this verse. Paul is saying that grace will not abound if we continue in sin. For Paul answers the question with, “God forbid” and he says in Romans 8:1 says that there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. The works of the flesh is sin according to Galatians 5:19-21. So Romans 8:1 is implying that there is condemnation if one walks after the flesh (i.e. sin).

As for chastisement: Chastisement is only for those who are faithful to Christ and or those who are not seeking to justify sin in some way. For the goal of chastisement is to correct the wrong behavior. For example: A master chastises or corrects his dog on pooping on the carpet with the intended goal that the animal will stop the wrong behavior. Most Eternal Security folk I talked with say they cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven. So chastisement does not make a lick of sense in light of their belief. God is punishing them for no real good reason. It would be like a master who kicks his dog knowing it has an uncontrollable pooping problem because it is sick.

As for salvation being based on performance:

Ever read Hebrews 5:9 before?
What about the Parable of the Talents?
Did not the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of His Lord? Was not the unprofitable servant cast into outer darkness?
(See: Matthew 25:21, and Matthew 25:30).

Agreed.
 
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chad kincham

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Can Christians live a holy life?

Note:

I am not asking this question because I doubt that a believer can live a holy life. I do believe that a believer can live holy by God's power (Thereby giving Him the glory); My question is asked so as to see what Christians today say about this kind of question.

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us.

Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.

That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.

Shalom.
 
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chad kincham

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Can Christians live a holy life?

Note:

I am not asking this question because I doubt that a believer can live a holy life. I do believe that a believer can live holy by God's power (Thereby giving Him the glory); My question is asked so as to see what Christians today say about this kind of question.

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us.

Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.

Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.

The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.

Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?

We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.

That’s why the apostle wrote:

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.
 
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chad kincham

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Can Christians live a holy life?

Note:

I am not asking this question because I doubt that a believer can live a holy life. I do believe that a believer can live holy by God's power (Thereby giving Him the glory); My question is asked so as to see what Christians today say about this kind of question.

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us.

Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.

That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.
 
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chad kincham

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We can't lose our salvation when we sin. Jesus is the intercession for our sin to the Father.




To be saved, we must repent of our sins - as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19) - but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;


So the hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.


Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and Paul warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.


Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continuing to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.


1Jn 1:7 (But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another), and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.


Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).


Having no condemnation, and remaining in Christ, is conditional upon walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.


And Paul warns us against being deceived about living in sin as a believer, when he wrote:


Gal 6:7 Be Not DECEIVED ; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man SOWETH,that shall he also REAP.


Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; BUT he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting


You reap everlasting life only if you sow to the spirit (walk after the Spirit, Romans 8:1) , but reap spiritual death if you sow to your flesh.


When we do occasionally sin, we must confess it, for God to forgive it. 1 John 1:9.


The lies of hyper grace are twofold: you don’t ever need to repent after salvation when you sin; and you can’t lose salvation.


This makes grace a license to sin, since sin has no eternal penalty.


Thus if you want a mistress on the side, you can have one, and regularly commit adultery - or if you’re a drunkard you can get drunk every day - you can live a sinful lifestyle with impunity.


I personally know people that are living in sin, and use OSAS as their sinning license, and they get angry if you tell them that Paul warned the brethren in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that living in the sin of drunkenness or adultery, etc, will keep them out of heaven.


In that passage, Paul warns some of the believers that they are defrauding their brethren, (which is stealing, being a thief) then warns them that stealing, and other sins, will keep them from heaven:


1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD and that yourbrethren.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Another warning by Paul, to the saints of God, about living a sinful lifestyle as a child of God:


Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;


Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.


Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.



Being the bride of Christ is a covenant marriage.


God had a covenant marriage with Israel, and yet God divorced Israel in Jeremiah 3:8 for spiritual adultery, due to their continual sins.


In earthy marriage we agree to forsake all others and remain wed until death - yet committing adultery breaks the marriage covenant, and their is a divorce, nullifying the “Until death do we part” clause in that covenant.


Both Jesus and Paul use Adam and Eve as the example of marriage, and quote Genesis regarding marriage (that the two become one and cleave together) - thus marriage has not fundamentally changed between the OT and NT.


Adultery still nullifies the earthly marriage covenant, and spiritual adultery (continually sinning) still nullifies Gods marriage covenant, if there is no repentance.


Anyone who is His bride and chooses to go back to a sinful lifestyle without repentance, breaks the covenant marriage of Jesus and themselves, and they are no longer in Christ, and are no longer saved.


The prodigal son.


In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, thus the son represents believers who are Gods adopted sons.


He’s already a son when the story starts.


He leaves the father to live in sin


When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN, he WAS LOST, but now IS FOUND.


Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother *was dead*, and is *alive again*; and *was lost*, and *is found*.


He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.


How then was he dead?


He was dead in his sins.


Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened,who *were dead* in *trespasses and sins*


Thus the son was alive, left his Father to live a sinful life, became DEAD in his sins, then returned in repentance, and became alive AGAIN.


In Luke 8 Jesus tells the parable of the sower who sows the seed of the word of God.


Some seed sown lands on a rock. The seed GROWS, and results in new life, but then it withers and dies.


Jesus makes it clear that in the example of the seed sown on a rock, shows that some people BELIEVE for a while, but then FALL AWAY.


Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed...


Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.


Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, *receive the word with joy*; and these have no root, which FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.


Notice above, they *received the word with joy*


To receive the word with joy, is to become a follower of Jesus Christ:


1Th 1:6 And ye became *followers of us, and of the Lord*, having ‘*received the word* in much affliction, *with joy* of the Holy Ghost.


Some believe for a while, then fall away.


OSAS is unbiblical.
 
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chad kincham

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Paul said that all our righteousness is as filthy rags. So how does God expect us to be holy when we have no righteousness?

Because once we’ve been regenerated and have the indwelling presence of God, we must choose to walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and Paul warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:

Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.


Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continuing to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.


1Jn 1:7 (But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another), and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.


Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).


Having no condemnation, and remaining in Christ, is conditional upon walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.
 
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chad kincham

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While you believe we lose our salvation when sin, there is no explaining any scripture.

This concept of salvation is based on works. Paul said dozens of time that works has nothing to do with salvation, it is based on faith.

There is no need to go any further, we will have to solve this dilemma of losing ones salvation right now.

Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you are saved in any way by what you do, even part faith in what you do, you have something to boast about. Look what I have done to help God save me.

Paul says no, we are saved 100% by faith.

James 2:18

...show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

What did James just tell you?

He told you that his works proves his faith.

This is the cardinal sin of the Catholic Church. They are ignoring Paul, and completely misunderstanding James on works for salvation.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Ephesians 2:8-9, and what James wrote.

Whenever Paul wrote about works, he is ALWAYS talking about works of the law of Moses, which is a specific OT body of law, with 613 statutes, and commands.

We are saved by grace THROUGH faith, it’s a gift of God, not of works of the law of Moses.

We aren’t saved by animal sacrifices, keeping feast days, sabbaths, etc, nor any of the other 613 rules.

James on the other hand, is not talking about works of the law of Moses, but works of obedience and charity.

That’s why a seeming contradiction between Paul and James, isn’t one at all.

To whit:

Paul wrote that Abraham was justified apart from works.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

James wrote that Abraham WAS justified by works, which perfected his faith.

There’s no contradiction, they are talking about different kinds of works.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

There are requirements and conditions for Christians after salvation, which have nothing to do with works of the law of Moses, but Ephesians 2:8-9 is cited whenever those conditions are brought up, to try and prove there’s nothing required of us after salvation.

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and Paul warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.

Those requirements aren’t works of the law of Moses.


Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continuing to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.


1Jn 1:7 (But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another), and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.


Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).


Having no condemnation, and remaining in Christ, is conditional upon walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.
 
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chad kincham

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We can't lose our salvation when we sin. Jesus is the intercession for our sin to the Father.

Scripture does not promise that you can choose to continually live in sin, and remain in Christ.

In fact, it says just the opposite, many times.
 
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Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us.

Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.

That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.

Dear Chad:

I like your posts a lot. You speak very close to the truth of what I believe. But you don't have to repeat your posts repeatedly for me to see them, brother. I can see them in the alerts section.

As for the conflict that believers may have with sin:

Well, I believe in time, a believer will overcome mortal sins in this life. When that time is achieved is between them and GOD. Everyone is different. The 144,000 were found without fault before the throne of God in regards to their holy conduct (Revelation 14:3-5). I believe Romans 7:14-24 is Paul speaking from his perspective of when he was a Pharisee as Saul who was trying to be justifed by keeping the 613 laws of Moses and he was not speaking of his Christian experience. Galatians 5:24 says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Paul tells says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (See: 2 Corinthians 7:1). Peter says that one can cease from sin if they suffer in the flesh (See: 1 Peter 4:1-2). Note: For the topic of conversation here, I am refering to mortal sin here (in regards to these verses).

Side Note:

I asked you before a few questions, but I do not remember you answering them.
Do you believe in the Trinity?
Do you believe in Sola Scriptura?
Do you believe the Old Testament ceremonial laws like the Saturday Sabbath, and the dietary laws have ended, etc.?
 
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chad kincham

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Dear Chad:

I like your posts a lot. You speak very close to the truth of what I believe. But you don't have to repeat your posts repeatedly for me to see them, brother. I can see them in the alerts section.

As for the conflict that believers may have with sin:

Well, I believe in time, a believer will overcome mortal sins in this life. When that time is achieved is between them and GOD. Everyone is different. The 144,000 were found without fault before the throne of God in regards to their holy conduct (Revelation 14:3-5). I believe Romans 7:14-24 is Paul speaking from his perspective of when he was a Pharisee as Saul who was trying to be justifed by keeping the 613 laws of Moses and he was not speaking of his Christian experience. Galatians 5:24 says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Paul tells says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (See: 2 Corinthians 7:1). Peter says that one can cease from sin if they suffer in the flesh (See: 1 Peter 4:1-2). Note: For the topic of conversation here, I am refering to mortal sin here (in regards to these verses).

Side Note:

I asked you before a few questions, but I do not remember you answering them.
Do you believe in the Trinity?
Do you believe in Sola Scriptura?
Do you believe the Old Testament ceremonial laws like the Saturday Sabbath, and the dietary laws have ended, etc.?

Sorry about the repeat posts.

I use an iPad, and tried three different browsers, with the same problem - I post something, the browser crashes and the page reloads, and my post is nowhere to be found, but when I repost it, two posts show up.

Sometimes I have to repost several times before anything shows up, then I get three duplicates.

Very aggravating.



Side Note:


Do you believe in the Trinity? Yes
Do you believe in Sola Scripture Yes
Do you believe the Old Testament ceremonial laws like the Saturday Sabbath, and the dietary laws have ended, etc.. Yes
 
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Sorry about the repeat posts.

I use an iPad, and tried three different browsers, with the same problem - I post something, the browser crashes and the page reloads, and my post is nowhere to be found, but when I repost it, two posts show up.

Sometimes I have to repost several times before anything shows up, then I get three duplicates.

Very aggravating.

Sorry to hear about your Ipad giving you problems. I remember losing my work sometimes when I owned my Ipad 1 (a long while back). My old Ipad 1 used to just crash sometimes, too. However, I have not noticed this problem with my newer Ipad, though.

As for fixing duplicate posts:

While you cannot delete posts. You can make them appear blank.

#1. Select the edit button at the bottom left hand corner of each of your posts.
#2. Highlight the text you want to delete.
#3. Hit the delete button on your keyboard.
#4. Put a few symbols of your choice from your keyboard. I usually use three periods “...”
#5. Select color font as white from the above tool box. (Note: The change the font color is the circle symbol button that is half white and black next to the underline symbol button).
#6. Click the “save changes” red button and your done.​

Side Note:

If the changing of the font color is too difficult to do on your Ipad, you can always just type [post removed] or [duplicate post] to let people know that it was not intentional.

Hope what I said here helps.

You said:
Side Note:

Do you believe in the Trinity? Yes
Do you believe in Sola Scriptura Yes
Do you believe the Old Testament ceremonial laws like the Saturday Sabbath, and the dietary laws have ended, etc.. Yes

So glad to hear that, brother.

:oldthumbsup:

It's rare when I can find another brother who agrees with me on the basics these days.

Blessings be unto you in the Lord.
 
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Danthemailman

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Of course my view of God is incorrect to someone who is not saved by grace through faith alone, but mixes in a little works for good measure.
That's exactly what BH has done. Mixed in works for good measure. That is the real agenda behind this thread - "type 2 works salvation" as demonstrated below: :(

After we are saved by God's grace, God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS.
 
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That's exactly what BH has done. Mixed in works for good measure. That is the real agenda behind this thread - "type 2 works salvation" as demonstrated below: :(

First, based on what you said in another thread here, you believe king David was saved WHILE he commited his sins of adultery and murder. This means that you are teaching that a believer can abide in such sins and still be saved. In fact, if a child overheard you saying David was saved while he did these sins, you could potentially help to create yet another George Sodini whether you wanted that to happen or not (Note: George Sodini was a believer who murdered a bunch of people, and took his own life and thought he was saved by having a belief alone on Jesus; To learn more about Sodini, check out this here, and here).

Second, as for my agenda and your slanderous label against the truth of what the Bible teaches:

My agenda is nothing but what the Bible says plainly. After we are saved by God's grace, we need to enter into the Sanctification Process (which includes the works of God done through the believer) as a part of salvation. For example: You have to twist and distort the plain meaning of the following truths below in Scripture in order to make your belief true.

  1. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

  2. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

  3. A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

  4. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

  5. Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

  6. We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).

  7. Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).

  8. Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).

  9. Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

  10. Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).

  11. If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).

  12. Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

The Bible teaches that serious sin is separation from GOD,

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

"Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears." (John 9:31).

[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
(Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

“But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.” (Proverbs 6:32).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication,, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).

“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”
(Ezekiel 18:24).

9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

You said:
From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS.

We are saved by faith initially and foundationally (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, Titus 3:5). Paul was referring to how we are not saved by Works ALONE Salvationism without God's grace in these verses because of the heresy of “Circumcision Salvationism”; Which is the false belief from Jews who tried to convince certain Christians in the early church that they first had to be saved by being circumcised (Note: We can see this heresy described at the Jerusalem council in: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Circumcision was something that was of the Old Law and not the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. The problem arises with this false belief because if a Christian thought they had to be circumcised to be initially saved, they are making cirumcision (the Old Law) the basis of their salvation and not Jesus Christ and His grace. Paul argued against this heresy, as well (See: Galatians 5:2, Galatians 2:3, Romans 3:1, and Romans 4:9-12). But many today like to distort Paul's words and say that he was referring to even the words of Jesus (When He taught about obedience as a part of the kingdom). But Paul said that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Even Jesus said that the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30). Paul said one can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).
 
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First, based on what you said in another thread here, you believe king David was saved WHILE he commited his sins of adultery and murder. This means that you are teaching that a believer can abide in such sins and still be saved. In fact, if a child overheard you saying David was saved while he did these sins, you could potentially help to create yet another George Sodini whether you wanted that to happen or not (Note: George Sodini was a beleiver who murdered a bunch of people, and took his own life and thought he was saved by having a belief alone on Jesus; To learn more about Sodini, check out this here, and here)...
Your agenda is works salvation, anti-OSAS propaganda, straw man arguments against OSAS believers and promoting yourself as "holier than thou." Your misinterpretation of multiple passages of scripture and rhetoric is not what the Bible says plainly, but you have your biased agenda. Carry on.
 
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Your agenda is works salvation,

Believers are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace. But that does not mean they cannot be disqualified afterwards by doing no works, and or abiding in unconfessed mortal sin. I mean, if you are against God's agenda of doing good works, then you are for anti-works as a part of salvation and you believe that a Christian is saved despite doing anything for God. Meaning, you do not ever need any works ever as a part of being saved. Yet, we know the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30) (Which is a verse you have to either ignore or twist).
In other words, your belief is teaching that a believer does not have to love others and still be saved. But 1 John 3:15 says, “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

Your ridiculous excuse that believers will automatically be changed to love and do good works is a smoke screen. You are merely trying to act like you are for those verses on holy living but you really are not for them because you believe that a believer can abide in sin and still be saved (like you believe king David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder). So your belief is contradictory and set on a timer to auto self destruct. How so?

Well, while God can help us and nudge us back to following Him, we are not forced against our will to be a certain way. We still have free will.

For we are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

  1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

  2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

  3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).
...
You said:
anti-OSAS propaganda, straw man arguments against OSAS believers and promoting yourself as "holier than thou." Your misinterpretation of multiple passages of scripture and rhetoric is not what the Bible says plainly, but you have your biased agenda. Carry on.

No strawman needed. The Bible alone is enough refutation of OSAS and a sin and still be saved type belief. All one has to do is read their Bible to see what your selling is false. So yeah, carry on. Folks who are truly after the truth will know the truth and be set free by it if they truly are seeking such a truth and not their own belief they find to be more comforting. For what is more bias? To think that one can sin and still be saved? Or to walk in the will of God and do what is good as a part of His kingdom? God is good, and He does not want us to be evil.
 
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To all:

One is either for justifying mortal sin,
or one is for battling against mortal sin in the hope of overcoming it.

What do you think God would prefer us to do seeing He is good?


Side Note:

Mortal sin is any sin (or disobedience to God's commands) in the Bible that is attached with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation. Non-mortal sins are minor infractions or faults of character that God has not specifically condemned with warnings of condemnation or hellfire. But make no mistake, believers should seek to be obedient to God in all His ways.
 
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chad kincham

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Your agenda is works salvation, anti-OSAS propaganda, straw man arguments against OSAS believers and promoting yourself as "holier than thou." Your misinterpretation of multiple passages of scripture and rhetoric is not what the Bible says plainly, but you have your biased agenda. Carry on.

He is right, and you are very wrong.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Ephesians 2:8-9,

Whenever Paul wrote about works, he is ALWAYS talking about works of the law of Moses, which is a specific OT body of law, with 613 statutes, and commands.


We are saved by grace THROUGH faith, it’s a gift of God, not of works of the law of Moses.


We aren’t saved by animal sacrifices, keeping feast days, sabbaths, etc, nor any of the other 613 rules.


James on the other hand, is not talking about works of the law of Moses, but works of obedience and charity.


That’s why a seeming contradiction between Paul and James, isn’t one at all.


To whit:


Paul wrote that Abraham was justified apart from works.


Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.


James wrote that Abraham WAS justified by works, which perfected his faith.


Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


There’s no contradiction, they are talking about different kinds of works.


There are requirements and conditions for Christians after salvation, which have nothing to do with works of the law of Moses, but Ephesians 2:8-9is cited whenever those conditions are brought up, to try and prove there’s nothing required of us after salvation.
 
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