Calvinist limited love for mankind

All Glory To God · Nov 1, 2020

Jeshu said:
What does it say? It says that children are His offspring.
Acts 17:28 " ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’"

How you twist God's word to mean different than it says? For where in God's word does it say that babies are born sinful and that God does not knit every human being together in the mother's womb?

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

Nonsense Ezekiel 18 is going up against the Jewish teaching at the time that the children were born sinful because there parents had been sinful but God puts everyone straight including you when He says;

Ezekiel 18:1-3
"The word of the Lord came to me: “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:

“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

Neither Ephesians 2:3 nor Job 14:4 are talking about babies but grown up sinful people.

You are the one who is in error teaching that babies come from the devil and not from God. You have to take words out of the Scripture and add words to it to make your arguments stick. From the very beginning God made people good and the devil turned them into sinner and made them children of wrath.

Well I disagree with your interpretation on these scriptures, like Job and ephesians. You claim it is talking about a coming sin but it doesn't actually say that.

God made man good, not perfect. And the fall separated man from God and the consequences that followed are inherent sin. Adam was designed to live forever, he had access to the tree of life but that access was denied as punishment and part of the fall from the grace of God. Adams children were not born in Eden, they, Adam and eve were separated from God and born into death and sin. This is proof we know unborn people also have an inherent sin nature, they can die in the womb. Satan doesn't cause us to sin (he can be used as a tool by God) we are polluted by an ancestry curse from Adam.

chad kincham · Nov 1, 2020

Jeshu said:
Sorry Scripture tells different than you do.

So you didn’t bother to look up the four scriptures I gave?

Tsk, tsk.

Jeshu · Nov 1, 2020

All Glory To God said:
This is proof we know unborn people also have an inherent sin nature, they can die in the womb. Satan doesn't cause us to sin (he can be used as a tool by God) we are polluted by an ancestry curse from Adam.

Again how you teach that is right against what Scripture teaches. That is the problem with so many of these doctrines of man, they contradict the word of God.

Ezekiel 18:1-3
The word of the Lord came to me: “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:

“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

Clearly Scripture teaches us that only those who sin will die for that sin, when a baby dies in the womb it is not because of their inherit sin, but because God ordained them to live no longer than X amount of days and their time was up. Psalm 139. As simple as that. For all our days are written in the book of life before even one came to be. It has nothing to do with inherited sin but rather being put into a fallen reality which surrounds us even before we are born according to the Psalmist. This does not make a baby sinful or inheritedly wrong, you add that to it. It says nowhere in the bible. that this is so.

Indeed, given the overwhelming support of Scripture it is written that all people are His offspring, and that yes we are born and conceived surrounded by sin and therefore we have no chance of ever growing up sinless, yet we come from God originally. Indeed, Scripture teaches, we are His heritage and His reward to our parents. Clearly the bible goes against your kind of teaching about original sin as we have seen in Ezekiel 18.

“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.

So yes i wish the Churches would do away with the doctrine of original sin as you confess it now. It has done so incredible much damage. In my Church there are people who believe like you do and they condemn all aborted babies to hell, running into the real danger of turning our Almighty God and loving Father into a cruel, unjust and heartless tyrant. That is the problem with not believing what it says in Scripture but adding words to the meaning that don't exist.

While Scripture teaches that God is so loving that He does not want anyone to perish but all come to His glorious truth.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people."

Please tell me, on judgement day, for what wilful sin will that baby be condemned to burn for eternity?

Revelation 20:11-13
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

Jeshu · Nov 1, 2020

chad kincham said:
Because of the fall, Satan is our spiritual father, and we are in the kingdom of darkness, thus we are not the children of God - unless we change kingdoms by receiving Jesus, and becoming adopted as children of God.

John 1:12

Galatians 4:5

Colossians 1:13

John 8:44

Shalom.

chad kincham said:
So you didn’t bother to look up the four scriptures I gave?

Tsk, tsk.

Sorry i missed your first post.

None of these text say that babies are not God's offspring, but rather point out that people are sinful and need to be saved.

When Jesus is talking to the Pharisees He is not talking about babies but about people following satan in their hearts. If anything this text proofs all the things i have been saying.

For the Pharisees Psalm 139:13-16 is also true, but they were not true to the word following satan in their hearts and letting him father them into the evildoers they turned out to be.

All those who speak lies or believe lies about God, themselves or their neighbour have the devil as their father Scripture teaches. Babies don't speak lies and don't believe lies so they are clearly except as set apart from the rest as Acts 17:28-29 confirms.

Paul even uses the argument that all people are God's offspring to preach the Gospel of salvation to those fallen sinners. What more proof can you want that Babies are God's offspring?

Acts 17:26-31
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

“Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

All Glory To God · Nov 2, 2020

Jeshu said:
. . . .

So yes i wish the Churches would do away with the doctrine of original sin as you confess it now. It has done so incredible much damage. In my Church there are people who believe like you do and they condemn all aborted babies to hell, running into the real danger of turning our Almighty God and loving Father into a cruel, unjust and heartless tyrant. That is the problem with not believing what it says in Scripture but adding words to the meaning that don't exist. . . . .

See this is why I say you are in a cult. When you say ''i wish the Churches would do away with the doctrine of original sin'' what that basically amounts to is accusing Christendom of being in error,because all the main groups accept inherit sin from the fall by varying degrees. So everyone is wrong,the early Christians were wrong when they rejected pelagianism but you are right? Is this correct?

You have no community which leads you back to Jesus if you reject all church authority from all history.

Jeshu · Nov 2, 2020

All Glory To God said:
You have no community which leads you back to Jesus if you reject all church authority from all history.

i said the way you teach original sin condemns everyone to hell even the innocent and is not what Scripture teaches. i clearly showed you the evidence, but if you rather stick with the doctrines and traditions of man than the word of God so be it, i will have nothing to do with it.

Matthew 7:1-2 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

RickReads · Nov 2, 2020

All Glory To God said:
See this is why I say you are in a cult. When you say ''i wish the Churches would do away with the doctrine of original sin'' what that basically amounts to is accusing Christendom of being in error,because all the main groups accept inherit sin from the fall by varying degrees. So everyone is wrong,the early Christians were wrong when they rejected pelagianism but you are right? Is this correct?

You have no community which leads you back to Jesus if you reject all church authority from all history.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

RickReads · Nov 2, 2020

Jeshu said:
Again how you teach that is right against what Scripture teaches. That is the problem with so many of these doctrines of man, they contradict the word of God.

Ezekiel 18:1-3
The word of the Lord came to me: “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:

“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

Clearly Scripture teaches us that only those who sin will die for that sin, when a baby dies in the womb it is not because of their inherit sin, but because God ordained them to live no longer than X amount of days and their time was up. Psalm 139. As simple as that. For all our days are written in the book of life before even one came to be. It has nothing to do with inherited sin but rather being put into a fallen reality which surrounds us even before we are born according to the Psalmist. This does not make a baby sinful or inheritedly wrong, you add that to it. It says nowhere in the bible. that this is so.

Indeed, given the overwhelming support of Scripture it is written that all people are His offspring, and that yes we are born and conceived surrounded by sin and therefore we have no chance of ever growing up sinless, yet we come from God originally. Indeed, Scripture teaches, we are His heritage and His reward to our parents. Clearly the bible goes against your kind of teaching about original sin as we have seen in Ezekiel 18.

“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.

So yes i wish the Churches would do away with the doctrine of original sin as you confess it now. It has done so incredible much damage. In my Church there are people who believe like you do and they condemn all aborted babies to hell, running into the real danger of turning our Almighty God and loving Father into a cruel, unjust and heartless tyrant. That is the problem with not believing what it says in Scripture but adding words to the meaning that don't exist.

While Scripture teaches that God is so loving that He does not want anyone to perish but all come to His glorious truth.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people."

Please tell me, on judgement day, for what wilful sin will that baby be condemned to burn for eternity?

Revelation 20:11-13
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

I don`t know why somebody would believe that an aborted baby goes to hell.
That seems strange to me.

All Glory To God · Nov 2, 2020

RickReads said:
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

And your point being what exactly?

All Glory To God · Nov 2, 2020

Jeshu said:
i said the way you teach original sin condemns everyone to hell even the innocent and is not what Scripture teaches. i clearly showed you the evidence, but if you rather stick with the doctrines and traditions of man than the word of God so be it, i will have nothing to do with it.

Matthew 7:1-2 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Yeah like you haven't been making any judgements. And I agree you do not follow the traditional beliefs that Christians have held to since a visible Church was formed, you have formed your own community outside of that.

RickReads · Nov 2, 2020

All Glory To God said:
And your point being what exactly?

I thought you were being a little harsh. He did indicate he`s in a church and if people in his church think that God sends aborted babies to hell then I feel he is legit to reject that.

I believe all Christians need to make themselves accountable to somebody but that doesn`t obligate a believer to believe wrong doctrines.

Would Jesus throw a baby into a fire? Is that what you believe?

All Glory To God · Nov 2, 2020

RickReads said:
I thought you were being a little harsh. He did indicate he`s in a church and if people in his church think that God sends aborted babies to hell then I feel he is legit to reject that.

I believe all Christians need to make themselves accountable to somebody but that doesn`t obligate a believer to believe wrong doctrines.

Would Jesus throw a baby into a fire? Is that what you believe?

If you actually look at my side of the dialogue I never even mentioned hell. I was talking about the nature of humanity. Yes if we sin that needs to be accounted for but I never actually said anything about who is condemned. The other member was arguing no sin is in humanity but comes later and that is what cults teach.

In regard to what happens to unborn people when they die,I wrote this-

An unborn person has not accepted Christ as their saviour,that is sin. Another layer to that is an unborn person has not actually done any good,any holiness any righteousness the unborn person has done no positive either.

And was just ignored because their is no counterargument against it,so that fellow just resorted to saying I was judging him.

Jeshu · Nov 2, 2020

All Glory To God said:
And I agree you do not follow the traditional beliefs that Christians have held to since a visible Church was formed, you have formed your own community outside of that.

Because i don't agree with Calvinist teaching on original sin you reckon i formed a sect in my own right, that is judging me. i belong to a Church, a understand myself to be a conservative Christian but simply don't agree with the way some teach original sin. i believe in The Word of God, the whole word of God. Not peoples interpretations of it.

As far as John Calvin is concerned i see him as my brother in Christ and i am very thankful to him for bringing God's people back to God's word, as did Martin Luther and others. However i do not think that the teachings of that time were flawless like some Christian do. i know that some some teachings such as election and original sin have done more harm than good.

i know for a fact that a baby is born sinless, i've had four of my own, and not one of them fitted into the description of psalm 14 or 53, and i have demonstrated to you that Scripture clearly teaches the same.

Yet you wont believe Scripture but adhere to traditions instead, such is not wise. It is easy to brush me off assigning me to a sect, but the fact is i'm a bible believing Christian. i believe in the whole bible not just parts taken out of context, like the teaching of original sin is.

The devil is the father of the lie and the lie can only do its damaging work when we believe it. If i see how easy many of my fellow brothers and sisters throw countless babies in hell, even those babies which were murdered or miscarried from unbelieving parents, because they didn't accept Jesus as Lord and are therefore doomed, is turning our loving heavenly Father into a monster, and i hate all that. All these people use your teaching of original sin to do that.

So i believe this teaching of original sin needs to be corrected and God should be given the Glory as Creator of each and every human, not the devil. Rather the devil should be exposed as the deceiver and destroyer of life for that is what he is. Satan only becomes our father in sin, and kills the truth of God's glory right out of us, harvesting us hell, unless we call upon the Lord Jesus to be saved.

Isaiah 57:1-4 explains this process clearly enough.

The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.

“But you—come here, you children of a sorceress,
you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes!
Who are you mocking?
At whom do you sneer
and stick out your tongue?
Are you not a brood of rebels,
the offspring of liars?

Jeshu · Nov 2, 2020

RickReads said:
I don`t know why somebody would believe that an aborted baby goes to hell.
That seems strange to me.

That is, according to such believers, because a baby is sinful and did not accept Jesus as there Saviour. The logic is simple for someone who believes babies are already from the devil at conception. They turn God into a terrible monster, for he makes babies just to destroy them, rather than a God who justly punishes people for their transgressions as Scripture teaches.

Scripture teaches us that we need to look at the fruit to know what the tree is like. For bad fruit doesn't grow on a good tree but the teaching of original sin has produced some really bad fruits in people's hearts. We had a teacher in our school teaching our kids at the time that when a baby was born it need to be punished already

So i let Scripture chop that tree down in my life and have produced much better fruit ever since.

Psalm 89:47
"Remember how short my time is; For what futility have You created all the children of men?"

So clearly this is our heritage in the Lord, we are His offspring, but the lies we end up believing about God, ourselves and our neighbour, turn us in to offspring of satan instead. Just like Psalm 82 and Isaiah 57:1-4 teaches.

Psalm 82:6-7 "“I said, ‘You are “gods”;you are all sons of the Most High. But you will die like mere mortals you will fall like every other ruler.”" :amen:

Peace.

RickReads · Nov 2, 2020

Jeshu said:
That is, according to such believers, because a baby is sinful and did not accept Jesus as there Saviour. The logic is simple for someone who believes babies are already from the devil at conception. They turn God into a terrible monster, for he makes babies just to destroy them, rather than a God who justly punishes people for their transgressions as Scripture teaches.

Scripture teaches us that we need to look at the fruit to know what the tree is like. For bad fruit doesn't grow on a good tree but the teaching of original sin has produced some really bad fruits in people's hearts. We had a teacher in our school teaching our kids at the time that when a baby was born it need to be punished already

So i let Scripture chop that tree down in my life and have produced much better fruit ever since.

Psalm 89:47
"Remember how short my time is; For what futility have You created all the children of men?"

So clearly this is our heritage in the Lord, we are His offspring, but the lies we end up believing about God, ourselves and our neighbour, turn us in to offspring of satan instead. Just like Psalm 82 and Isaiah 57:1-4 teaches.

Psalm 82:6-7 "“I said, ‘You are “gods”;you are all sons of the Most High. But you will die like mere mortals you will fall like every other ruler.”"

Peace.

In ancient Israel a child was not considered accountable to the Law of Moses until they were age 12.
In Christianity, many if not most Christians believe in "age of accountabilty doctrine" which says that a child or a mentally disabled person is not responsible for their deeds until they reach a point where they are capable of choosing or rejecting Christ.

This is not directly supported in scripture but it is arguably implied in a few places. I have faith that God will always do the right thing and be just.

Jeshu · Nov 3, 2020

RickReads said:
I have faith that God will always do the right thing and be just.

Yes i learned to do that as well after i saw how much calmer my wife responded to people turning God into someone i would not like to serve or belief in.

i believe in a loving righteous God who will deal with us in accordance to His word to us. i absolutely love His word, it so full of promise to those who hate evil and love His Son Jesus and gave me answers to all my questions.

We have a daughter with down syndrome and we had to fight the Church council to get her admitted to the holy supper table. It was a three year fight which we won in the end because the minister opposing our daughter was out voted by the Church council.

But yes our pastor at the time took the point of view that she was no aware enough of her sins and could not recite the three forms of unity and that therefore she be an offence at the table. Our Daughter was well into her twenties at the time, and everybody her ages was admitted after doing their confession. It really made me hate man made doctrines even more for he used that to stop her from supping with us.

We used God's word to show the elders that keeping a child of God, with a faith in Christ, from His table would not be taken lightly by our Lord. We did convince them after three years fighting the issue.

i reckon we can't put the truth in concrete. His word is dynamic and able to explain all issues throughout the ages, and the bible needs to stay like that, not harnessed by human words and interpretations, but freely able to teach its readers.

Peace

All Glory To God · Nov 3, 2020

Jeshu said:
Because i don't agree with Calvinist teaching on original sin you reckon i formed a sect in my own right, that is judging me. i belong to a Church, a understand myself to be a conservative Christian but simply don't agree with the way some teach original sin. i believe in The Word of God, the whole word of God. Not peoples interpretations of it.

As far as John Calvin is concerned i see him as my brother in Christ and i am very thankful to him for bringing God's people back to God's word, as did Martin Luther and others. However i do not think that the teachings of that time were flawless like some Christian do. i know that some some teachings such as election and original sin have done more harm than good.

i know for a fact that a baby is born sinless, i've had four of my own, and not one of them fitted into the description of psalm 14 or 53, and i have demonstrated to you that Scripture clearly teaches the same.

Yet you wont believe Scripture but adhere to traditions instead, such is not wise. It is easy to brush me off assigning me to a sect, but the fact is i'm a bible believing Christian. i believe in the whole bible not just parts taken out of context, like the teaching of original sin is.

The devil is the father of the lie and the lie can only do its damaging work when we believe it. If i see how easy many of my fellow brothers and sisters throw countless babies in hell, even those babies which were murdered or miscarried from unbelieving parents, because they didn't accept Jesus as Lord and are therefore doomed, is turning our loving heavenly Father into a monster, and i hate all that. All these people use your teaching of original sin to do that.

So i believe this teaching of original sin needs to be corrected and God should be given the Glory as Creator of each and every human, not the devil. Rather the devil should be exposed as the deceiver and destroyer of life for that is what he is. Satan only becomes our father in sin, and kills the truth of God's glory right out of us, harvesting us hell, unless we call upon the Lord Jesus to be saved.

Isaiah 57:1-4 explains this process clearly enough.

The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.

“But you—come here, you children of a sorceress,
you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes!
Who are you mocking?
At whom do you sneer
and stick out your tongue?
Are you not a brood of rebels,
the offspring of liars?

Well I am not persuaded by your arguments and now unfortunately you have turned yourself into a victim,the judged one, which is always a problem when people start complaining about mistreatment

Humans definitely have sin inherent or they would not die,we were designed to live forever and that changed due to the fall. Whether or not unborn persons and babies are condemned is Gods business. I believe people are saved by the election of God.

Well if all major Christian groups,past and present accept the fall from the grace of God damaged humans relationship with God and the consequences that followed because of the sin in Eden,why don't you? It just shows how all the major groups in Christendom acknowledge the sinful nature of creation. Only the people on the far fringes reject this core belief that has always been understood by Gods people. Let's be honest it is cult-like. You can call yourself holy and a man of God if you want but if I had no connection to a community, I would be asking, where are my roots? I am not an expert on their doctrines but I think part of what separates Reformed from Rome,Eastern orthodox and other Protestant groups like Lutherans in regard to salvation is how grace is administered, that is the lords supper. None of us disagree there is a need for grace from God because something is fundamentally broken with humanity. All of us apart from the fringes.......This would be you right? You say you want to correct ''the church'' on original sin because humans sin later so therefore they are born with a good nature?

Jeshu · Nov 3, 2020

All Glory To God said:
This would be you right? You say you want to correct ''the church'' on original sin because humans sin later so therefore they are born with a good nature?

You talk a lot in defence of wrong, without proving your position with Scripture. You cannot admit, like much of the Christian Church, that you are wrong and that Scripture teaches better than your beloved doctrine of man does.

As for me i will not believe anything that is not written clearly in God's word. i have shown you a half a dozen proof text with indisputably say what i say, but you will still be to proud to give you got it wrong.

That is the problem with the Christian Church today, people like you who stick their head in the sand, and accuse, judge and condemn anyone who proofs them wrong regardless if Scripture supports their position or not and then attach them outside of God's Church somewhere.

And you call yourself a child of God? While you judge me a non Christian because i don't agree with your unscriptural stance? While Jesus clearly says that the judgement you use will be used against you? Not wise my dear brother in Christ, not wise at all.

Clearly Scripture teaches that people are God's offspring and your point of view that humanity is from the devil is not supported by Scripture. You are operating outside of God's word in the realm of false teachings rather than biblical truths.

i'm glad i have Jesus as judge and i don't need to be scared of the judgement of people like you. i will believe what God's says much more so than what people say. If you throw me out of the Church for doing that so be it. Jesus did warn me about that. It doesn't matter i love His word much more than the untruths the Reformed doctrine teaches. As far as i'm concerned sola Scriptura right to the end.

A good day to you.

All Glory To God · Nov 3, 2020

Anyone who steps up, in a thread dedicated to critiquing doctrine, posted to the controversial forum should be ready to have their own beliefs tested. This is the lions den friends.

RickReads · Nov 5, 2020

It took awhile But I believe the right answer has been given to me.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost"

( The verse says saved by regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Regeneration saves the Bible says, therefore it would be impossible for this to occur before someone has heard about Jesus as the Calvinists contend.)

( The passage below explains how a natural man dead in sin comes to repentance. The chastisement of the Holy Spirit. It`s not regeneration as Calvinists believe rather it`s the scolding of the heart which is called coming under conviction by evangelicals.)

John 16

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"

Calvinist limited love for mankind

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Bought by His Blood

Bought by His Blood

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Bought by His Blood

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Bought by His Blood

Bought by His Blood

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Bought by His Blood

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Bought by His Blood

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