The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations

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eclipsenow

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Hey maaate, its my bedtime! 9:36 NZ time here.
Noice - kick yer Jandal's off and get to bed.

I place symbolic sermons in the round file,
I'm not sure what that expression means?

my preference is to belive the Bible as Written.
Just putting something in caps "as Written" does not get you off the hook if you read something metaphorical as literal. Otherwise we'd belong to the church of the 7 eyed, 7 horned space-lamb that requires we poke our eye out and pass a camel through the eye of a needle to get to heaven! Just imagine reading all Jesus parables and metaphors literally?

You've got a LOT of work to do to justify reading the MOST metaphorical and symbolic book of the bible 'literally'. It's just wrong. Sorry - no spiritual points from me for bad reading.
 
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Oseas

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Oh no - not another end-times-table? How many is that on this site - must be up to 666?

No - I like Amillennial doctrine that relies on the clearer reading of the New Testament and takes those basic concepts and applies them to Revelation. Not the less clear metaphors in Revelation being applied over the clearer writing in the New Testament - that just muddies the waters. Oh, and BTW - try not to call a different classical interpretation of eschatology that the giants of the Reformation held to 'theories of demons' or you're breaking forum rules and not really justifying your argument - just getting emotional. (What is it with you futurists getting on your holier-than-though high horses? Seriously! Can't we just have a polite conversation for once - it doesn't help your opinions sound balanced!)

I exposed an end-times-table based in the Word of God - the Word is God, understand? And you comparared what is revealed by the Word of God with the satanic man Beast like a lamb, who speaks as a Dragon, the 666 - Revelation 13:v.11-18. Check it out..

In fact a false lamb, a false God, a false messiah, according John 5:v.43to47, and 2Thessalonians 2:v.3to12, and Revelation 13:v.11-18, the ruthless 666, and who will give his Power, and his Seat, and Great Authority to the Beast of sea-the Papacy- , actually a Gentile Beast of 7 heads, which will be wounded to death in one of his 7 heads from now on.

But the false God, the false messiah,
AS SAID JESUS-the true God-(not me) according John 5:v.43-47-, yeah, the false God will help the Beast of sea giving unto him-the Papacy- his Power, and his Seat, and Great Authority-Revelation 13:v.2-, and the deadly wound of one of the 7 heads of the Beast will be healed: and ALL THE WORLD will be wondered after the Beast, and will worshipp the false God, the Dragon, which gave Power unto the Beast of sea-the Papacy- and they will worshipp the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make War with him?

Yeah, who is able to make War with the Beast?

If you be not engaged in this War against the Beast,
then you, and who thinks like you, will surely be dragged by the Beast together the WORLD and will worship him, as it is prophesied and it will fulfil LITERALLY henceforwards. Get ready. It is a warning.

I work with the Word of God - the Word is God, understand? - the Omniscient, and Omnipresent, and Omnipotent God, from everlasting to everlasting.
 
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Oseas

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Again; No time given for this to happen.
The only time anyone is bodily Redeemed, or glorified, is when the Book of Life is opened. AFTER the Millennium.
What is it that makes you believe this can happen sooner?

What prevails is the Word of God - the Word is God, understand? Yeah, the Word is God, even Him who was made flesh. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true,
even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.(John 5:v.19-20)

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever. Rev. 11:v.15

But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Luke 20:v.35-36

For this we say unto you by the Word of the LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven(from the third heaven) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel - Michael-, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Daniel 12:v.1-3
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them...to meet the Lord in the air-heaven-third heaven-: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Thessalonians 4:v.15-17

Matt.25:v.34 - Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matt.25:v.41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his messengers.


Matt.25:v.46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
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keras

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Matt.25:v.46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Yes; at the Great White Throne Judgment - AFTER the Millennium.
NOT before!
You've got a LOT of work to do to justify reading the MOST metaphorical and symbolic book of the bible 'literally'.
Only as things happen will you and many who reject the Prophetic Word, finally understand. Isaiah 29:23-24, Isaiah 32:3-4
 
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eclipsenow

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I exposed an end-times-table based in the Word of God - the Word is God, understand?

I go by Amil doctrine which is guided by the clearest teachings of the New Testament - and then tries to be steered by that clear teaching from the Word of God - the Word is God, understand - to the rest of the Word of God.

If you be not engaged in this War against the Beast, then you, and who thinks like you, will surely be dragged by the Beast together the WORLD and will worship him, as it is prophesied and it will fulfil LITERALLY henceforwards. Get ready. It is a warning.

It's not my fault you read metaphors as literal.
It's not my fault your futurist church culture has blinded you to the 2 age model - and that Darby changed how Christians have approached revelation for 1800 years.


I work with the Word of God - the Word is God, understand?
Yeah - I understand. How about you repeat that a few dozen times? I'm sure it won't get annoying or patronising.:oldthumbsup: :doh:

How about we both assume we're working from the Word of God - brought to us by Jesus who is the Word of God - and move on from there to explain WHY we read it the way we read it? That might be the adult thing to do in this situation - don't you agree? :wave:
 
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Oseas

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Yes; at the Great White Throne Judgment - AFTER the Millennium.
NOT before!

Unfortunately you are deceived completely, and once having you been deceived, so you will also deceive those who hear from you, mainly those who are not grounded in the Word of Truth, in the Word of the Lord.

Revelation 20:v.1-4
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven(actually an Archangel), having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and Judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they LIVED and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This prophecy will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, yeah, CERTAINLY the prophecy will fulfil by complete during this new decade just started. The Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, will be thrown into the bottomless pit by the Archangel, that the Devil should deceive the nations no more, so get ready because your theory emanates from the old Serpent.
 
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Oseas

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I go by Amil doctrine which is guided by the clearest teachings of the New Testament - and then tries to be steered by that clear teaching from the Word of God - the Word is God, understand - to the rest of the Word of God.

On which verses of Scripture is your doctrine based? By the way, Judgment will be given to the saints of the Most High, and your doctrine will be judged by the Word of God if it is really true or misleading.

It's not my fault you read metaphors as literal.
It's not my fault your futurist church culture has blinded you to the 2 age model - and that Darby changed how Christians have approached revelation for 1800 years.

Sorry, your commentary is irrelevant, honestly for me you are not saying anything. JESUS said: Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt.10:v.28

Yeah - I understand. How about you repeat that a few dozen times? I'm sure it won't get annoying or patronising.:oldthumbsup: :doh:

How about we both assume we're working from the Word of God - brought to us by Jesus who is the Word of God - and move on from there to explain WHY we read it the way we read it? That might be the adult thing to do in this situation - don't you agree?

I have quoted Scriptures in all my posts giving support for my messages, so why do not you copy that verses I have quoted for discuss about them? Or why you haven't so far quoted any Scriptures to contest my messages? Remember: We can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth - 2Cor.13:v.8. God is Truth, the Word is God, understand? Even He, the Word, who was made flesh, and is from everlasting to everlasting.
 
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eclipsenow

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I have quoted Scriptures in all my posts giving support for my messages, so why do not you copy that verses I have quoted for discuss about them? Or why you haven't so far quoted any Scriptures to contest my messages? Remember: We can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth - 2Cor.13:v.8. God is Truth, the Word is God, understand? Even He, the Word, who was made flesh, and is from everlasting to everlasting.

Just because you quote them doesn't mean you know how to read them.
Try looking up the word genre.
In a dictionary.
Then move onto combinations, like 'literary genre'.
Then try looking at a bible introductory course that introduces you to the different kinds of writing in the bible - from history to biography to love poetry and apocalyptic symbolism.

You can bible-bash me with all the holier-than-thou attitude you want - but it doesn't mean you have a clue.
 
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keras

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Unfortunately you are deceived completely, and once having you been deceived, so you will also deceive those who hear from you, mainly those who are not grounded in the Word of Truth, in the Word of the Lord.

Revelation 20:v.1-4
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven(actually an Archangel), having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and Judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they LIVED and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This prophecy will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, yeah, CERTAINLY the prophecy will fulfil by complete during this new decade just started. The Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, will be thrown into the bottomless pit by the Archangel, that the Devil should deceive the nations no more, so get ready because your theory emanates from the old Serpent.
This reply simply does not address the fact that it is only at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium, that anyone will receive immortality.
The Trib martyrs will be brought back to life by Jesus at His Return, but even they may die again, that is why verse 6 says their second death won't affect their final resurrection. After the Mill.

Your desperate attempts to force a general resurrection of Christians before that time, fails for lack of any scriptural proof.
 
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eclipsenow

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This reply simply does not address the fact that it is only at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium, that anyone will receive immortality.
The Trib martyrs will be brought back to life by Jesus at His Return, but even they may die again, that is why verse 6 says their second death won't affect their final resurrection. After the Mill.

Your desperate attempts to force a general resurrection of Christians before that time, fails for lack of proper scriptural proof.

It's just hilarious the knots you literalists get into when you read metaphors literally!

The "Second death" is hell - not dying again!

The first resurrection is Jesus resurrection that we share in - these are martyred saints in heaven.

John even says he sees their 'souls'. John is visualising the triumph of the martyred saints as they reign with Christ for the gazillion years between his Resurrection and his Return.

Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Where is Christ in this vision? He's in heaven! John showed us where Jesus was at the beginning of Revelation. Where does it say Jesus changed his location? When did he move? He's already resurrected - already with God in heaven. That's where these saints are - safe in heaven. That's why no one else has been resurrected yet - because this isn't on the earth when everyone will be raised together to be judged at the same time. No. This tiny little paragraph is a metaphor for the saints in heaven. That's it. But from the clearer parts of the New Testament that are clearly speaking of people here on earth, it never says anything about a 'second death' or anything like that. There's just death - then resurrection and judgement. All together. At once.

Show me anywhere else in the New Testament that suggests people are raised at different times?
 
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Timtofly

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Riddlebarger explains it well. Basically, there is NOW and then there is THEN - there is no 'in-between'.

If we begin with clear passages of Scripture, we can construct a very simple, basic model to help us with the “weirder,” tougher passages. One such approach is known as the “two-age” model. Both Jesus and Paul, for example, speak of “this age” and the “age to come” as distinct eschatological periods of time (Mt 12:32; Lk 18:30; 20:34-35; Eph 1:21). For both our Lord and the apostle, there are two contrasting ages in view. The first age (spoken of as “this age” in the New Testament) is the present period of time before the Second Coming of Christ. The second age, a distinctly future period of time, is referred to as “the age to come.” When these two ages (“this age” and “the age to come”) are placed in contrast with each other, we are able us to look at the qualities ascribed by the Biblical writers to each in such a way that we can answer questions about the timing of the return of Christ and the nature and timing of the millennium.

When we look at the qualities ascribed to “this age” by the biblical writers, we find that the following are mentioned: “homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields — and with them persecutions” (Mk 10:30); “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage” (Lk 20:34); the scholar, philosopher and such wisdom are of this age (1 Cor 1:20); secular and religious rulers dominate (1 Cor 2:6-8); “the god of this age [Satan] has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Cor 4:4); this age is explicitly called “the present evil age” (Gal 1:4); ungodliness and worldly passions are typical of it (Titus 2:12). All of these qualities are temporal, and are certainly destined to pass away with the return of our Lord. “This age” is the age in which we live, and is the age in which we struggle as we long for the coming of Christ and the better things of the age to come.

By marked contrast however, “the age to come” has an entirely different set of qualities ascribed to it: There will be no forgiveness for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Mt 12:32); it is preceded by signs (Mt 24:3); it is characterized by eternal life (Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30); is also denoted as a time when there is no marriage or giving in marriage (Lk 20:35); and it is which is characterized by “life that is truly life” (I Tim 6:19). These qualities are all eternal, and are indicative of the state of affairs and quality of life after the return of Christ. In other words, these two ages, the present (“this age”) and the future (the “age to come”) stand in diametrical opposition to one another. One age is temporal; the other is eternal. One age is characterized by unbelief and ends in judgement; the other is the age of the faithful and is home to the redeemed. It is this conception of biblical history that dominates the New Testament.

It is also imperative to see that the same contrasts which Jesus and Paul make between these two ages are in turn related to the one event that forever divides them, the return of Christ. This line of demarcation is expressly stated in Scripture. “The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. . . This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous” (Mt. 13:39-49). These statements are the type of clear and unambiguous texts mentioned earlier. Notice that according to this text judgement occurs immediately at Christ’s return, not after a one-thousand year millennium (as in the premillennial scheme). This is not the only line of Biblical evidence, however, for in addition to this we can find other such statements about the coming of Christ that fit very clearly into the two-age model.

According to Scripture, the resurrection of both the just and the unjust occurs simultaneously. Jesus expressly states that he will raise believers up on the “last day” (Jn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24). Thus we told quite clearly that the resurrection of the just occurs on the last day, at the end of this age. In addition, Jesus also proclaims that “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day” (John 12:48). Notice that the very same event is also said to be the time of judgment for those who reject Christ. Add to these important passages those additional verses that, relate the trumpet of God to the “last day” and to the return of Christ. The return of Christ will occur “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Co. 15:52; cf. 1 Thess 4:16). Notice that there are no gaps of time indicated between the resurrection and the judgement. These texts collectively speak of the resurrection, the judgment, and the return of Christ as distinct aspects of but one event, occurring at precisely the same time (cf. Mt 25:31-46). Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.

Thus, we can conclude that “this age” — the period of time Peter calls the “last days” (Acts 2:17), and which Jesus characterizes as a period of birth pains of wars, earthquakes, famine, and distress (Mt 24, Mk 13) — ends with the return of Christ, the resurrection and the judgement on the “last day.” An event that, by the way, Peter describes like the “day of the Lord [which] will come as a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare” (2 Pet 3:10). It is only after this that the age to come will be a present and visible reality. Notice that the focus is not upon a half-way kingdom and somewhat improved temporal age on the earth (i.e., a future millennium).

Instead, the biblical focus is upon the consummation and the summing up of all things with the creation of the new heavens and the new earth! The return of Jesus Christ is the key event in biblical prophecy. For when our Lord Jesus Christ returns, the end of the age, the resurrection, the judgment, and the creation of the new heavens and the new earth are at hand!

Thus the two-age model is very simple in its structure and is based on texts that can only be described as clear and straightforward. This enables us to make the following conclusions about the nature of the New Testament’s teaching regarding the return of Christ and the timing of the so-called “millennial age.”
A Present or Future Millennium? by Kim Riddlebarger
Yet you claim these two separate ages are only happening now at the same time. What is the point of saying, "it is to come"? What is the point of even separating them, just to claim they both are the present age? The 1000 years in Revelation 20 is the age to come. It cannot come until this age is completed at the 7th Trumpet. Your post claims Satan is not bound in the present age, but only bound in the age to come. You claim one is physical and one is spiritual. You would be correct. As to who is on earth and who is in heaven for eternity, you have avoided. Those in Paradise do not have sex any more. No where does it claim no sex on earth. How do you fill the earth with bodies if there is no sex. The New Jerusalem has been populated by all those who are already there. How did those in Paradise get there? It was sex on earth in the past 5990 years, no?
 
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eclipsenow

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Yet you claim these two separate ages are only happening now at the same time.
Nope.
There's now.
Then there's Judgement Day then the new heavens and new earth.
This is the way most Christians understood eschatology up until Darby. That's historical fact.

What is the point of saying, "it is to come"?
It - the new earth - still is to come.

What is the point of even separating them, just to claim they both are the present age?
You've lost me.

The 1000 years in Revelation 20 is the age to come.
Classic Amil doctrine reads this one tiny little paragraph in the light of the whole New Testament - not the other way around. All you millenarians mess up the quite simple 2 age model whole New Testament eschatology which is so clearly the 2 age model.

It cannot come until this age is completed at the 7th Trumpet.
What cannot?

Your post claims Satan is not bound in the present age, but only bound in the age to come.
Incorrect. Satan IS bound - but in regards to exactly what Revelation 20 says he is bound to. Something specific. Something particular. Something we have met before and should recognise from our gospel readings!

"When the seventy returned from their preaching mission, they said to Jesus, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name." Jesus replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:17-18). These words, needless to say, must not be interpreted as suggesting Satan's literal descent from heaven at that moment. They must rather be understood to mean that Jesus saw in the works his disciples were doing an indication that Satan's kingdom had just been dealt a crushing blow—that, in fact, a certain binding of Satan, a certain restriction of his power, had just taken place. In this instance Satan's fall or binding is associated directly with the missionary activity of Jesus' disciples.
Another passage which relates the restriction of Satan's activities to Christ's missionary outreach is John 12:31-32: "Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." It is interesting to note that the verb translated "cast out" (ekball) is derived from the same root as the word used in Revelation 20:3, "and threw (ball) him [Satan] into the pit." Even more important, however, is the observation that Satan's being "cast out" is here associated with the fact that not only Jews but men of all nationalities shall be drawn to Christ as he hangs on the cross.
The binding of Satan described in Revelation 20:1-3, therefore, means that throughout the gospel age in which we now live the influence of Satan, though certainly not annihilated, is so curtailed that he cannot prevent the spread of the gospel to the nations of the world. Because of the binding of Satan during this present age, the nations cannot conquer the church, but the church is conquering the nations.
The Millennium of Revelation 20 | Monergism

You claim one is physical and one is spiritual. You would be correct. As to who is on earth and who is in heaven for eternity, you have avoided. Those in Paradise do not have sex any more. No where does it claim no sex on earth. How do you fill the earth with bodies if there is no sex. The New Jerusalem has been populated by all those who are already there. How did those in Paradise get there? It was sex on earth in the past 5990 years, no?

Riddlebarger explains it well. Basically, there is NOW and then there is THEN - there is no 'in-between'.
_______________
If we begin with clear passages of Scripture, we can construct a very simple, basic model to help us with the “weirder,” tougher passages. One such approach is known as the “two-age” model. Both Jesus and Paul, for example, speak of “this age” and the “age to come” as distinct eschatological periods of time (Mt 12:32; Lk 18:30; 20:34-35; Eph 1:21). For both our Lord and the apostle, there are two contrasting ages in view. The first age (spoken of as “this age” in the New Testament) is the present period of time before the Second Coming of Christ. The second age, a distinctly future period of time, is referred to as “the age to come.” When these two ages (“this age” and “the age to come”) are placed in contrast with each other, we are able us to look at the qualities ascribed by the Biblical writers to each in such a way that we can answer questions about the timing of the return of Christ and the nature and timing of the millennium.

When we look at the qualities ascribed to “this age” by the biblical writers, we find that the following are mentioned: “homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields — and with them persecutions” (Mk 10:30); “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage” (Lk 20:34); the scholar, philosopher and such wisdom are of this age (1 Cor 1:20); secular and religious rulers dominate (1 Cor 2:6-8); “the god of this age [Satan] has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Cor 4:4); this age is explicitly called “the present evil age” (Gal 1:4); ungodliness and worldly passions are typical of it (Titus 2:12). All of these qualities are temporal, and are certainly destined to pass away with the return of our Lord. “This age” is the age in which we live, and is the age in which we struggle as we long for the coming of Christ and the better things of the age to come.

By marked contrast however, “the age to come” has an entirely different set of qualities ascribed to it: There will be no forgiveness for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Mt 12:32); it is preceded by signs (Mt 24:3); it is characterized by eternal life (Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30); is also denoted as a time when there is no marriage or giving in marriage (Lk 20:35); and it is which is characterized by “life that is truly life” (I Tim 6:19). These qualities are all eternal, and are indicative of the state of affairs and quality of life after the return of Christ. In other words, these two ages, the present (“this age”) and the future (the “age to come”) stand in diametrical opposition to one another. One age is temporal; the other is eternal. One age is characterized by unbelief and ends in judgement; the other is the age of the faithful and is home to the redeemed. It is this conception of biblical history that dominates the New Testament.

It is also imperative to see that the same contrasts which Jesus and Paul make between these two ages are in turn related to the one event that forever divides them, the return of Christ. This line of demarcation is expressly stated in Scripture. “The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. . . This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous” (Mt. 13:39-49). These statements are the type of clear and unambiguous texts mentioned earlier. Notice that according to this text judgement occurs immediately at Christ’s return, not after a one-thousand year millennium (as in the premillennial scheme). This is not the only line of Biblical evidence, however, for in addition to this we can find other such statements about the coming of Christ that fit very clearly into the two-age model.

According to Scripture, the resurrection of both the just and the unjust occurs simultaneously. Jesus expressly states that he will raise believers up on the “last day” (Jn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24). Thus we told quite clearly that the resurrection of the just occurs on the last day, at the end of this age. In addition, Jesus also proclaims that “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day” (John 12:48). Notice that the very same event is also said to be the time of judgment for those who reject Christ. Add to these important passages those additional verses that, relate the trumpet of God to the “last day” and to the return of Christ. The return of Christ will occur “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Co. 15:52; cf. 1 Thess 4:16). Notice that there are no gaps of time indicated between the resurrection and the judgement. These texts collectively speak of the resurrection, the judgment, and the return of Christ as distinct aspects of but one event, occurring at precisely the same time (cf. Mt 25:31-46). Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.

Thus, we can conclude that “this age” — the period of time Peter calls the “last days” (Acts 2:17), and which Jesus characterizes as a period of birth pains of wars, earthquakes, famine, and distress (Mt 24, Mk 13) — ends with the return of Christ, the resurrection and the judgement on the “last day.” An event that, by the way, Peter describes like the “day of the Lord [which] will come as a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare” (2 Pet 3:10). It is only after this that the age to come will be a present and visible reality. Notice that the focus is not upon a half-way kingdom and somewhat improved temporal age on the earth (i.e., a future millennium).

Instead, the biblical focus is upon the consummation and the summing up of all things with the creation of the new heavens and the new earth! The return of Jesus Christ is the key event in biblical prophecy. For when our Lord Jesus Christ returns, the end of the age, the resurrection, the judgment, and the creation of the new heavens and the new earth are at hand!

Thus the two-age model is very simple in its structure and is based on texts that can only be described as clear and straightforward. This enables us to make the following conclusions about the nature of the New Testament’s teaching regarding the return of Christ and the timing of the so-called “millennial age.”
A Present or Future Millennium? by Kim Riddlebarger
 
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keras

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Hear the Word of the Lord:
Hosea 4:1-6 You inhabitants of the Land of Israel, hear the Word of the Lord: There is no good faith or loyalty and no [very little] acknowledgement of God in the Land. People break oaths, they kill and commit adultery. Violence and apostasy rule, there is no justice. But it is not for mankind to bring charges, it is My contention and it is with you, the prophets and priests. Day and night you blunder on in your ignorance of My true Word. You bring your nation to ruin with your want of knowledge. As you reject the teaching of God, so I reject you as My priests.
Therefore the Land will be made desolate and all who live in it will suffer, the animals, birds and even the fish will vanish.


Hosea 4:7-19 The more priests there are, the more they sin against Me. Their dignity I shall turn into dishonour. The leaders of My people [Judah and Israel] have given themselves to immorality and strong drink, their wits are dulled and they seek advice from divinators. A people so devoid of understanding will soon come to grief, a powerful wind will hit them and they will realize their practices and beliefs are a delusion.

Hosea 5:1-12 Hear then, you congregation leaders of My people: Sentence is passed on you because you have misled your flocks. I shall punish all those who spread false doctrines and now all Ephraim, Israel [the Western nations] have become promiscuous and their misdeeds have barred their way back to their God. So now a terrible invader is set to devour their lands.

Sound the alarm! On the Day of wrath and punishment Ephraim will be laid waste, certain desolation is decreed for Israel and Judah.

Hosea 6:1-3 Come let us go back to the Lord, He has punished us but He will heal us. After two days He will revive us and on the third day, He will raise us up to live in His presence. Let us press on to know the Lord, His coming is as sure as the sunrise. He will come to us like a refreshing shower, like the spring rains He will water His people with the Holy Spirit.
Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged and paraphrased.


not for mankind to bring charges’ – Isa. 3:13-15, Zeph. 3:8, Mal. 3:5, Hebrews 10:26-27

the Land made desolate’ – Isa.28:22, Eze.20:47, Jer.6:7, Jer.7:34, Zeph.1:18, Micah 1:6

‘a powerful wind will hit them’ – Jer.23:19, Jer.4:26-28, Psalm 3:14-15, Joel 1:15-20

the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath’, Isa.13:9-13, Eze.30:3-5, Zeph.1:14-1, 2 Pet.3:10

destruction decreed for Israel and Judah’ Jer.23:9-18, Isa.25:2, Isa 28:22, Amos 6:11

‘teachers and leaders of the flock judged’, James 3:1, Jer.23:1-2, Rev. 2:20-22

‘after two days comes revival, on the third day we will live in His presence’. – Luke 13:32, 2 Peter 3:8 The Lord’s timeline: 4000 years before Christ = 4 days. Then 2000 years of church dispensation = 2 days, His people will be revived and back in the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5 Then after the Return of Jesus, He reigns for 1000 earthly years = 1 heavenly day, giving a total of 7000 years of earth time and 7 days of heaven time from Creation until Completion.
 
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Timtofly

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Nope.
There's now.
Then there's Judgement Day then the new heavens and new earth.
This is the way most Christians understood eschatology up until Darby. That's historical fact.


It - the new earth - still is to come.


You've lost me.


Classic Amil doctrine reads this one tiny little paragraph in the light of the whole New Testament - not the other way around. All you millenarians mess up the quite simple 2 age model whole New Testament eschatology which is so clearly the 2 age model.


What cannot?


Incorrect. Satan IS bound - but in regards to exactly what Revelation 20 says he is bound to. Something specific. Something particular. Something we have met before and should recognise from our gospel readings!

"When the seventy returned from their preaching mission, they said to Jesus, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name." Jesus replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:17-18). These words, needless to say, must not be interpreted as suggesting Satan's literal descent from heaven at that moment. They must rather be understood to mean that Jesus saw in the works his disciples were doing an indication that Satan's kingdom had just been dealt a crushing blow—that, in fact, a certain binding of Satan, a certain restriction of his power, had just taken place. In this instance Satan's fall or binding is associated directly with the missionary activity of Jesus' disciples.
Another passage which relates the restriction of Satan's activities to Christ's missionary outreach is John 12:31-32: "Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." It is interesting to note that the verb translated "cast out" (ekball) is derived from the same root as the word used in Revelation 20:3, "and threw (ball) him [Satan] into the pit." Even more important, however, is the observation that Satan's being "cast out" is here associated with the fact that not only Jews but men of all nationalities shall be drawn to Christ as he hangs on the cross.
The binding of Satan described in Revelation 20:1-3, therefore, means that throughout the gospel age in which we now live the influence of Satan, though certainly not annihilated, is so curtailed that he cannot prevent the spread of the gospel to the nations of the world. Because of the binding of Satan during this present age, the nations cannot conquer the church, but the church is conquering the nations.
The Millennium of Revelation 20 | Monergism



Riddlebarger explains it well. Basically, there is NOW and then there is THEN - there is no 'in-between'.
_______________
If we begin with clear passages of Scripture, we can construct a very simple, basic model to help us with the “weirder,” tougher passages. One such approach is known as the “two-age” model. Both Jesus and Paul, for example, speak of “this age” and the “age to come” as distinct eschatological periods of time (Mt 12:32; Lk 18:30; 20:34-35; Eph 1:21). For both our Lord and the apostle, there are two contrasting ages in view. The first age (spoken of as “this age” in the New Testament) is the present period of time before the Second Coming of Christ. The second age, a distinctly future period of time, is referred to as “the age to come.” When these two ages (“this age” and “the age to come”) are placed in contrast with each other, we are able us to look at the qualities ascribed by the Biblical writers to each in such a way that we can answer questions about the timing of the return of Christ and the nature and timing of the millennium.

When we look at the qualities ascribed to “this age” by the biblical writers, we find that the following are mentioned: “homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields — and with them persecutions” (Mk 10:30); “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage” (Lk 20:34); the scholar, philosopher and such wisdom are of this age (1 Cor 1:20); secular and religious rulers dominate (1 Cor 2:6-8); “the god of this age [Satan] has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Cor 4:4); this age is explicitly called “the present evil age” (Gal 1:4); ungodliness and worldly passions are typical of it (Titus 2:12). All of these qualities are temporal, and are certainly destined to pass away with the return of our Lord. “This age” is the age in which we live, and is the age in which we struggle as we long for the coming of Christ and the better things of the age to come.

By marked contrast however, “the age to come” has an entirely different set of qualities ascribed to it: There will be no forgiveness for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Mt 12:32); it is preceded by signs (Mt 24:3); it is characterized by eternal life (Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30); is also denoted as a time when there is no marriage or giving in marriage (Lk 20:35); and it is which is characterized by “life that is truly life” (I Tim 6:19). These qualities are all eternal, and are indicative of the state of affairs and quality of life after the return of Christ. In other words, these two ages, the present (“this age”) and the future (the “age to come”) stand in diametrical opposition to one another. One age is temporal; the other is eternal. One age is characterized by unbelief and ends in judgement; the other is the age of the faithful and is home to the redeemed. It is this conception of biblical history that dominates the New Testament.

It is also imperative to see that the same contrasts which Jesus and Paul make between these two ages are in turn related to the one event that forever divides them, the return of Christ. This line of demarcation is expressly stated in Scripture. “The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. . . This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous” (Mt. 13:39-49). These statements are the type of clear and unambiguous texts mentioned earlier. Notice that according to this text judgement occurs immediately at Christ’s return, not after a one-thousand year millennium (as in the premillennial scheme). This is not the only line of Biblical evidence, however, for in addition to this we can find other such statements about the coming of Christ that fit very clearly into the two-age model.

According to Scripture, the resurrection of both the just and the unjust occurs simultaneously. Jesus expressly states that he will raise believers up on the “last day” (Jn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24). Thus we told quite clearly that the resurrection of the just occurs on the last day, at the end of this age. In addition, Jesus also proclaims that “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day” (John 12:48). Notice that the very same event is also said to be the time of judgment for those who reject Christ. Add to these important passages those additional verses that, relate the trumpet of God to the “last day” and to the return of Christ. The return of Christ will occur “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Co. 15:52; cf. 1 Thess 4:16). Notice that there are no gaps of time indicated between the resurrection and the judgement. These texts collectively speak of the resurrection, the judgment, and the return of Christ as distinct aspects of but one event, occurring at precisely the same time (cf. Mt 25:31-46). Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.

Thus, we can conclude that “this age” — the period of time Peter calls the “last days” (Acts 2:17), and which Jesus characterizes as a period of birth pains of wars, earthquakes, famine, and distress (Mt 24, Mk 13) — ends with the return of Christ, the resurrection and the judgement on the “last day.” An event that, by the way, Peter describes like the “day of the Lord [which] will come as a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare” (2 Pet 3:10). It is only after this that the age to come will be a present and visible reality. Notice that the focus is not upon a half-way kingdom and somewhat improved temporal age on the earth (i.e., a future millennium).

Instead, the biblical focus is upon the consummation and the summing up of all things with the creation of the new heavens and the new earth! The return of Jesus Christ is the key event in biblical prophecy. For when our Lord Jesus Christ returns, the end of the age, the resurrection, the judgment, and the creation of the new heavens and the new earth are at hand!

Thus the two-age model is very simple in its structure and is based on texts that can only be described as clear and straightforward. This enables us to make the following conclusions about the nature of the New Testament’s teaching regarding the return of Christ and the timing of the so-called “millennial age.”
A Present or Future Millennium? by Kim Riddlebarger
So your two age model is: the first age is Genesis 1:1, and the next age is Revelation 21?

Paul said there are still ages to come plural, not just 1 singular age to come.

John the beloved was the premillennial who inserted the 1000 years between the Second Coming and the GWT. Being a disciple of Jesus Christ he should have known better, no?
 
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eclipsenow

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Hear the Word of the Lord:
Hosea 4:1-6 You inhabitants of the Land of Israel, hear the Word of the Lord: There is no good faith or loyalty and no [very little] acknowledgement of God in the Land. People break oaths, they kill and commit adultery. Violence and apostasy rule, there is no justice. But it is not for mankind to bring charges, it is My contention and it is with you, the prophets and priests. Day and night you blunder on in your ignorance of My true Word. You bring your nation to ruin with your want of knowledge. As you reject the teaching of God, so I reject you as My priests.
Therefore the Land will be made desolate and all who live in it will suffer, the animals, birds and even the fish will vanish.


Hosea 4:7-19 The more priests there are, the more they sin against Me. Their dignity I shall turn into dishonour. The leaders of My people [Judah and Israel] have given themselves to immorality and strong drink, their wits are dulled and they seek advice from divinators. A people so devoid of understanding will soon come to grief, a powerful wind will hit them and they will realize their practices and beliefs are a delusion.

Hosea 5:1-12 Hear then, you congregation leaders of My people: Sentence is passed on you because you have misled your flocks. I shall punish all those who spread false doctrines and now all Ephraim, Israel [the Western nations] have become promiscuous and their misdeeds have barred their way back to their God. So now a terrible invader is set to devour their lands.

Sound the alarm! On the Day of wrath and punishment Ephraim will be laid waste, certain desolation is decreed for Israel and Judah.

Hosea 6:1-3 Come let us go back to the Lord, He has punished us but He will heal us. After two days He will revive us and on the third day, He will raise us up to live in His presence. Let us press on to know the Lord, His coming is as sure as the sunrise. He will come to us like a refreshing shower, like the spring rains He will water His people with the Holy Spirit.
Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged and paraphrased.


not for mankind to bring charges’ – Isa. 3:13-15, Zeph. 3:8, Mal. 3:5, Hebrews 10:26-27

the Land made desolate’ – Isa.28:22, Eze.20:47, Jer.6:7, Jer.7:34, Zeph.1:18, Micah 1:6

‘a powerful wind will hit them’ – Jer.23:19, Jer.4:26-28, Psalm 3:14-15, Joel 1:15-20

the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath’, Isa.13:9-13, Eze.30:3-5, Zeph.1:14-1, 2 Pet.3:10

destruction decreed for Israel and Judah’ Jer.23:9-18, Isa.25:2, Isa 28:22, Amos 6:11

All fulfilled in Jesus in eschatological tension.
We've talked about this.

‘after two days comes revival, on the third day we will live in His presence’
. – Luke 13:32

Again? OK, if you want.

LUKE 13:32 for Keras
"31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you. 32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ 33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"​

Luke 13 has nothing to do with the end times - and everything to do with the gospel.

Vs 33 shows that Jesus has 3 days in mind - not two - 'press on today and tomorrow AND THE NEXT DAY!" How you manage to overlook that obvious statement baffles my mind. Futurists are often so desperate to find their 'clues' as to when the Lord might return that they'll ignore even the immediate context of a verse. You cherrypicked a verse that is negated by the very next thing Jesus says! Selective reading much?

The worst part? You're doing horrible violence to the intended meaning of the passage. This is a gospel foreshadowing. Jesus will be leaving Herod's province of Galilee. He's going onto another jurisdiction. To die. He's going to continue his mission for 3 days. This 3 days isn't literal because he is going to teach and do other stuff for a while yet - it is literary. It is symbolism, invoking Jonah in the whale. As the "Evangelical Commentary of the Bible" with Walter A Elwell as Editor says:

"Nevertheless, Jesus will be leaving Herod's realm and will arrive in Jerusalem, not because he is afraid of Herod, but because as a prophet he must "reach [his] goal" and die in Jerusalem (vv. 32-33). The temporal references in verses 32-33 should not be taken literally; they are simply a way of describing a period of time before the end (the end is "the third day")."

Overwriting this trip with some kind of eschatological timetable is just plain absurd! It's not even on the radar of what the text is about! If there is a timetable here, it's of 3 days, not 2!
 
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Oseas

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Just because you quote them doesn't mean you know how to read them.
Try looking up the word genre.
In a dictionary.
Then move onto combinations, like 'literary genre'.
Then try looking at a bible introductory course that introduces you to the different kinds of writing in the bible - from history to biography to love poetry and apocalyptic symbolism.

You can bible-bash me with all the holier-than-thou attitude you want - but it doesn't mean you have a clue.

Who is your master?

I have one and he said to me:

The disciple is not above his Master, It is enough for the disciple that he be as his Master. Do you understand?

He said that his disciples hear His voice, and He knows them, and they follow Him, and He gives unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of His hand, understand?

I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou has hid these things from the wise and prudent, and has revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Amen
 
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eclipsenow

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Who is your master?

I have one and he said to me:

The disciple is not above his Master, It is enough for the disciple that he be as his Master. Do you understand?


It is patronising to hear someone ask "Do you understand?" all the time - do you understand?
People don't like being patronised. It means the speaker thinks they are inferior to the speaker.
Do you understand?


He said that his disciples hear His voice, and He knows them, and they follow Him, and He gives unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of His hand, understand?
I understand.

I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou has hid these things from the wise and prudent, and has revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
And you have managed to avoid answering any of the questions I put to you. Do you understand?
 
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This reply simply does not address the fact that it is only at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium, that anyone will receive immortality.
The Trib martyrs will be brought back to life by Jesus at His Return, but even they may die again, that is why verse 6 says their second death won't affect their final resurrection. After the Mill.

Your desperate attempts to force a general resurrection of Christians before that time, fails for lack of any scriptural proof.

What prevails is the Word of God. Your words are irrelevant and signifies nothing. The Word is God, do you understand? Yeah, the Word is God, even He who was made flesh and the men killed Him. But the Day of Vengeance has arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium. The punishments against all nations have already started, the wrath of the Word -God- will fall upon all nations. The great Day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 21

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and
there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death

Luke 20:35-36 - Around two thousand years ago JESUS said:

35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world
- the millennium of Christ -, and the resurrection from the dead(Daniel 12:v.1-3 and 1 Thes. 4:v.13-17), neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

 
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