Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved?

RickReads

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When we understand the true gospel of Christ as taught and learned according to (Jn 6:44,45) and (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16) we learn the following.

Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) and when one does this the Lord adds one to the church (vs 47) and the church is the saved.

When Christ is preached water baptism is also taught as a necessary act to be saved (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) (Mark 16:15,16) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Mt. 28:18-20)

Paul's sins were not forgiven until he had been baptized (Acts 22:16)

Your questions were rhetorical then?
 
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Nova2216

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Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Repentance follows along with baptism.

Must one confess Jesus as the son of God to be saved a the eunuch in (Acts 8:26-40)?

If so, then faith alone is a false doctrine.

The word of God does not end with (Jn 3:16).

Notice (Mt. 4:4).

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


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Dave L

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Must one confess Jesus as the son of God to be saved a the eunuch in (Acts 8:26-40)?

If so, then faith alone is a false doctrine.

The word of God does not end with (Jn 3:16).

Notice (Mt. 4:4).

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


Read more here.
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If God gives you a new heart so you can discern and believe in Jesus, the thrill of the experience alone will prompt you to speak about him. Have you ever experienced this?
 
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Nova2216

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Acts:2:38 is calling saved believing Jews to drop Judaism and convert to the New Covenant. Only saved believers would obey Peter.
Why are their sins being forgiven (Acts 2:38) if they are saved?
 
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Nova2216

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If God gives you a new heart so you can discern and believe in Jesus, the thrill of the experience alone will prompt you to speak about him. Have you ever experienced this?
Please define "the thrill of the experience".
 
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RickReads

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Must one confess Jesus as the son of God to be saved a the eunuch in (Acts 8:26-40)?

If so, then faith alone is a false doctrine.

The word of God does not end with (Jn 3:16).

Notice (Mt. 4:4).

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Spirit baptism is the one baptism. The water is a work.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Do you think you can lose your salvation?
Yes, but I'm not quite as passionate about defending that particular doctrine as I am in my beliefs that are opposite of the first 4 doctrines of TULIP. While I believe it can happen, I also believe it's not something that can just happen easily.

But, I believe that God doesn't force us to keep our faith until the end. We are responsible to do that. Not without His help, but He does give us some responsibility in that. I don't think free will ends until we die. This is what the author of Hebrews said to his fellow believers:

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

How does your doctrine make any sense of this? How can OSAS be true in light of a passage like this (there are others as well). Here is a warning given to believers about being careful not to be deceived and turn away from God. He wouldn't have warned them about that if it wasn't possible. Also, how can someone turn away from God if they aren't in a relationship with God in the first place?

In case you think he wasn't writing to believers here, look at how he referred to them earlier in the chapter.

Hebrews 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest.

If that isn't a description of true believers, I don't know what is. Also, he wouldn't tell them to "encourage one another daily" (verse 13) to help avoid being deceived if they weren't believers. That's not something that would be said to unbelievers.


Another way to look at this is based on what is said about people in the book of life in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Revelation 3:5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Notice in Rev 3:5 that Jesus indicated that He will not blot out anyone's name from the book of life if they are victorious, which we can see from Rev 2:10 has to do with someone being faithful until their death.

So, it seems to me that this implies that it's possible for one's name to be blotted out of the book of life up until the point of death. That can be confirmed by looking at this verse:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 
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Nova2216

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If you experience Christ, it will cause you to believe and speak volumes about him.
Christianity is a learned religion according to (Jn 6:44,45).

They shall all be taught of God...


Calvinism is a FORCED religious teaching. (error)


Read more here.
Mission Printing Home Page
 
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Dave L

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Yes, but I'm not quite as passionate about defending that particular doctrine as I am in my beliefs that are opposite of the first 4 doctrines of TULIP. While I believe it can happen, I also believe it's not something that can just happen easily.

But, I believe that God doesn't force us to keep our faith until the end. We are responsible to do that. Not without His help, but He does give us some responsibility in that. I don't think free will ends until we die. This is what the author of Hebrews said to his fellow believers:

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

How does your doctrine make any sense of this? How can OSAS be true in light of a passage like this (there are others as well). Here is a warning given to believers about being careful not to be deceived and turn away from God. He wouldn't have warned them about that if it wasn't possible. Also, how can someone turn away from God if they aren't in a relationship with God in the first place?

In case you think he wasn't writing to believers here, look at how he referred to them earlier in the chapter.

Hebrews 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest.

If that isn't a description of true believers, I don't know what is. Also, he wouldn't tell them to "encourage one another daily" (verse 13) to help avoid being deceived if they weren't believers. That's not something that would be said to unbelievers.


Another way to look at this is based on what is said about people in the book of life in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Revelation 3:5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Notice in Rev 3:5 that Jesus indicated that He will not blot out anyone's name from the book of life if they are victorious, which we can see from Rev 2:10 has to do with someone being faithful until their death.

So, it seems to me that this implies that it's possible for one's name to be blotted out of the book of life up until the point of death. That can be confirmed by looking at this verse:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
You cannot have faith that God saved you if you think you can perish. And we are saved by faith.
 
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"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Spirit baptism is the one baptism. The water is a work.
Then come the gifts of the Holy Spirit. If you seek. Some call that the second baptism. Christ was baptised in Water and then the Holy Spirit came upon him. Likewise the disciples, First came the outward evidence of their inner faith as they were baptised in water, and then the Holy Spirit came upon them in the upper room.
The gifts are for all time.
.
 
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Dave L

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Christianity is a learned religion according to (Jn 6:44,45).

They shall all be taught of God...


Calvinism is a FORCED religious teaching. (error)


Read more here.
Mission Printing Home Page
Think of it this way, If Calvin was right about God, many hate God with a passion and worship idols in his name instead.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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You cannot have faith that God saved you if you think you can perish. And we are saved by faith.
And, once again, all you do is share a short response without addressing anything I said specifically. Do you have any specific thoughts about what I said? Are you able to show that my interpretation of the scriptures I shared are wrong while giving your own interpretation of them in the process?

It's a waste of time for me to have a one way discussion about these things with someone who refuses to address my points and refuses to back up his opinions with scripture.
 
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Dave L

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And, once again, all you do is share a short response without addressing anything I said specifically. Do you have any specific thoughts about what I said? Are you able to show that my interpretation of the scriptures I shared are wrong while giving your own interpretation of them in the process?

It's a waste of time for me to have a one way discussionabout these things with someone who refuses to address my points and refused to back up his opinions with scripture.
how can you believe you are saved if you believe you can end up in hell? Faith says God saved you from that.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Think of it this way, If Calvin was right about God, many hate God with a passion and worship idols in his name instead.
What does this even mean? Explain yourself. Use scripture. Please stop wasting forum space with your opinions that aren't backed up by scripture. You come across like a Calvinist robot who is on auto reply.
 
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