Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved?

RickReads

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How does the concept of someone turning away from God fit in the Calvinist doctrine?

The doctrine says that the covering of His Righteousness will shield the elect person until the power of God returns them to a state of repentence.

"Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin"
 
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Spiritual Jew

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You should already know the scriptures behind total depravity. Look it up and see for yourself.
I have and I don't see them. Why don't you show me? Can you explain why you rarely back up your opinions with scripture? No one cares about your opinions if you can't back them up.
 
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Dave L

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I have and I don't see them. Why don't you show me? Can you explain why you rarely back up your opinions with scripture? No one cares about your opinions if you can't back them up.
Pray that God would reveal them to you.
 
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Nova2216

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Neither is true. You don't have to be water baptized to be saved, nor do you have to be water baptized to prove you are saved. You are baptized by the Holy Spirit upon belief and that is what saves you and it's a one-time done deal. Water baptism is good to do out of obedience, as a part of being a disciple of Christ, as a public declaration of faith after you are saved. It is a ritual symbolizing the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ which is why they did it after they were saved in scripture and which is why we as believers should do it as well once we get saved. But it is NOT a requirement for salvation. That would be works-based salvation if it were.


So (Mark 16:16) is not true according to you.

God said - Baptism doth now save us (1Peter 3:20,21). (water)

The only RECORDED examples we have of Holy Spirit Baptism is with GROUPS of people (not individuals). We see the Jews in (Acts 2) and the Gentiles in (Acts 10). These two groups make up the "ALL FLESH" that (Joel 2:28) and (Acts 2:16,17) speak about.

We do see INDIVIDUALS being baptized in water (for the remission of sins) when Christ is preached according to (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16).

There is only one baptism for today according to (Eph. 4:5).


Show me the scripture which teaches men are saved first then baptized (in water).

If I understand you correctly you are teaching two baptisms (HS baptism / water baptism) and not just one as (Eph. 4:5) teaches.


Can you show me one scripture which commands ALL MEN to be baptized by the Holy Spirit?

Please tell me how I can obey being baptized by the Holy Spirit?

Please tell me how I know I have been baptized by the Holy Spirit?


Thanks
 
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RickReads

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Baptism is not something we do rather it is something we submit to. The Lord is doing the work (an operation) while we are in the water according to (Col. 2:12).

So (Mark 16:16) is not true according to you.

God said - Baptism doth now save us (1Peter 3:20,21). (water)

The only RECORDED examples we have of Holy Spirit Baptism is with GROUPS of people (not individuals). We see the Jews in (Acts 2) and the Gentiles in (Acts 10). These two groups make up the "ALL FLESH" that (Joel 2:28) and (Acts 2:16,17) speak about.

We do see INDIVIDUALS being baptized in water (for the remission of sins) when Christ is preached according to (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16).

There is only one baptism for today according to (Eph. 4:5).


Show me the scripture which teaches men are saved first then baptized (in water).

If I understand you correctly you are teaching two baptisms (HS baptism / water baptism) and not just one as (Eph. 4:5) teaches.


Can you show me one scripture which commands ALL MEN to be baptized by the Holy Spirit?

Please tell me how I can obey being baptized by the Holy Spirit?

Please tell me how I know I have been baptized by the Holy Spirit?


Thanks

Do you think you are open to recieving the knowledge you are requesting?
 
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Nova2216

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Jesus came to baptize with fire. John the Baptist dunked people in a river. But that was the shadow baptism that preceded the baptism in fir (Acdts e.

Matthew 3:11
As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

See different type of baptism.

That was before the NT Law was established. Were under a new law today according to (Jer. 31:31-34) (Heb. 8:6-13) (Acts 2:16,17,38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16). (water baptism for the remission of sins) (1Peter 3:20,21)

Johns baptism was out of date according to (Acts 19:1-6).

There is only one baptism today (Eph. 4:5)
 
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Nova2216

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Do you think you are open to recieving the knowledge you are requesting?
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
 
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RickReads

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Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

You didn`t tell me what those verses mean to you.
 
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Nova2216

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According to Romans 10:9, a confession must be made.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Some would probably interpret that verse saying the confession precedes baptism. I would interpret the confession of Jesus as a lifestyle.

If one must confess Jesus is the son of God (to be saved) as the Ethiopian eunuch in (Acts 8:26-40) then faith alone salvation is a false doctrine.
 
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Nova2216

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You didn`t tell me what those verses mean to you.

Speak same thing / have same judgment (1Cor. 1:10) (Phil. 3:16).

We are to mold our minds to what the word of God says. (not the other way around)

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Renew our minds (Rom. 12:1,2)
 
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Nova2216

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What about repentence?
(Luke 13:3) (Acts 17:30)

Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Notice (Acts 2:38,47).
 
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RickReads

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Speak same thing / have same judgment (1Cor. 1:10) (Phil. 3:16).

We are to mold our minds to what the word of God says. (not the other way around)

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Renew our minds (Rom. 12:1,2)

Again, I don`t know what you are trying to say here. The topic was water baptism now you are just all over the place. I don`t think you want the answers to your water questions.
 
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Nova2216

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True, but they have no connections to water baptism whatsoever so your use of them is a mystery.

When we understand the true gospel of Christ as taught and learned according to (Jn 6:44,45) and (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16) we learn the following.

Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) and when one does this the Lord adds one to the church (vs 47) and the church is the saved.

When Christ is preached water baptism is also taught as a necessary act to be saved (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) (Mark 16:15,16) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Mt. 28:18-20)

Paul's sins were not forgiven until he had been baptized (Acts 22:16)
 
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Dave L

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When we understand the true gospel of Christ as taught and learned according to (Jn 6:44,45) and (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16) we learn the following.

Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) and when one does this the Lord adds one to the church (vs 47) and the church is the saved.

When Christ is preached water baptism is also taught as a necessary act to be saved (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) (Mark 16:15,16) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Mt. 28:18-20)

Paul's sins were not forgiven until he had been baptized (Acts 22:16)
Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Repentance follows along with baptism.
 
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