Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

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keras

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The Jews at Messiah Truth countermissionary site, say it is forever. They give some scriptural references. I don't recall what those were.

The Mt Sinai covenant is intended to be confirmed every seven years, in the form that Moses required in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.
That the agreement in Daniel 9:26 has nothing to do with the Sinai Covenant, is plain to anyone, excepting those with another agenda.

What do you think Isaiah 28:14-15 is talking about? Or Daniel 11:32 ?
 
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Douggg

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The evidence shows that it never was a reason.

There are no other reasons.
What answers what covenant is to be confirmed for 7 years, is the covenant Daniel was referring to in his prayer. And what covenant in the bible is confirmed on a 7 year cycle (the Mt. Sinai covenant). And what covenant is not (the new covenant in Christ). And what covenant is tied to the year shmitah cycle which the land is rested - which is confirmed in 2Chronicles36:20-21.
 
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mkgal1

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Yes, when they are talking about their own religion - Judaism. No, when they are talking about Christianity.
Biblical Judaism is Christianity. IOW: Christianity and the belief that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies is the logical conclusion to Biblical Judaism. Obviously, modern Judaism rejects that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies.....so that's a separate religion. Seeking insight on Old Testament text from modern Jews will not lead to any understanding about Jesus.

Luke 24:44-45
Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.”
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.
 
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Douggg

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Biblical Judaism is Christianity. IOW: Christianity and the belief that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies is the logical conclusion to Biblical Judaism.

Luke 24:44-45
Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.”
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.
Christianity and Judaism are obviously two different religions, belief systems. If a person wants information or what the Jews believe, talk to the Jews themselves. The majority of Christians, imo, don't want to do that. And for that reason, a major reason for not understanding the end times prophecies.
 
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mkgal1

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Christianity and Judaism are obviously two different religions, belief systems. If a person wants information or what the Jews believe, talk to the Jews themselves. The majority of Christians, imo, don't want to do that. And for that reason, a major reason for not understanding the end times prophecies.
Jesus and His disciples (at least in my opinion) are far more credible sources to seek concerning end time prophecies. The time of the end of Biblical Mt Sinai Judaism has already passed - and that is the ending Jesus and the prophets had spoken of. The Mt Sinai covenant has "disappeared " as the author of Hebrews wrote it would:

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

If you want a biblical Judaism perspective, Ray Vander Laan has studied ancient Hebrew culture. This video describes ancient Israel's mission. It's about a half hour in length.
 
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mkgal1

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If a person wants information or what the Jews believe, talk to the Jews themselves. The majority of Christians, imo, don't want to do that. And for that reason, a major reason for not understanding the end times prophecies.
Actually.... ISTM that the majority of non-historical Christians are doing just that....relying on modern religious Jews to inform their beliefs.

This documentary describes the results of that. Palestinian Christians are literally hated by Christians in the U.S. because of Zionism (this is a complete documentary - about an hour and a half in length). IMO, anyone interested in "end time" prophecy needs to take the time to watch:

 
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Douggg

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Jesus and His disciples (at least in my opinion) are far more credible sources to seek concerning end time prophecies. The time of the end of Biblical Mt Sinai Judaism has already passed - and that is the ending Jesus and the prophets had spoken of. The Mt Sinai covenant has "disappeared " as the author of Hebrews wrote it would:
For example, if a person does not know that the Jews believe that the "new covenant" in Jeremiah 31, to them is a "renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant - then a person would not understand that the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years is exactly what the Jews are looking for.

On the flip side of the coin of Christians unwllingness to talk to the Jews about what they believe - the Jewish countermissionaries are unwilling to go to Christian forums and talk to Christians about what they believe.
 
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jgr

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What answers what covenant is to be confirmed for 7 years, is the covenant Daniel was referring to in his prayer. And what covenant in the bible is confirmed on a 7 year cycle (the Mt. Sinai covenant). And what covenant is not (the new covenant in Christ). And what covenant is tied to the year shmitah cycle which the land is rested - which is confirmed in 2Chronicles36:20-21.

Explained.
 
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BABerean2

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For example, if a person does not know that the Jews believe that the "new covenant" in Jeremiah 31, to them is a "renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant - then a person would not understand that the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years is exactly what the Jews are looking for.

On the flip side of the coin of Christians unwllingness to talk to the Jews about what they believe - the Jewish countermissionaries are unwilling to go to Christian forums and talk to Christians about what they believe.


If you could show us at least one other person on the planet who agrees with you on this, you might be able to sell your idea.

Otherwise, you are wasting our time, and yours.


.
 
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nolidad

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I did. You quoted it. It was only through the power of the Holy Spirit (God) that His Gospel spread and people experienced the promised gift of the New Covenant (the Holy Spirit).

An example:

Acts 10


But preaching the gospel is not part of the new covenant! So the disciples preaching it have nothing to do with the seven years or the Jews or anything. that is just a false conflating of two separate items of God into one.

Yes the benefits of the new covenant have fallen on us gentiles because we have believed the gospel, but the gospel is not part of teh new covenant at all!
 
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Douggg

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If you could show us at least one other person on the planet who agrees with you on this, you might be able to sell your idea.

Otherwise, you are wasting our time, and yours.


.
You are an example of a Christian who does not want to go to a Judaism site - and ask them what they think regarding the new covenant in Jeremiah 31.
 
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nolidad

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Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'



Gal 1:14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace,
Gal 1:16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
Gal 1:17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.



Act 28:28 "Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!"
Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed and had a great dispute among themselves.



Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.



.

And with all those beautiful verses you quoted, you have yet shown any relevance of the gospel to Daniel 9 or to the new covenant!

The New Covenant is to the Jew! Let me remind you again of what GOD said:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.


If anything, when the new covenant is fully established- there will be no need for the gospel to be preached! verses33 and 34 show that.

But there is also this:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

You forget that what has been happening since Pentecost was a mystery in the OT! Israel would be blinded in part (only some of Israel will see) UNTYIL UNTIL UNTIL the full number of teh gentiles are brought in ! Then what happens? The blinded ISrael will see and get saved! And this is according to the New Covenant God made with Israel on His own! The Old or Mosaic covenant was made with both God and Israel as partners. The New covenant is made by God alone! that is why the old was conditional but the new is unconditional!

Also 2 Cor. 3:

13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

one word is very key---in verse 16 "WHEN" not if!
 
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Douggg

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You are claiming that Christians refer to the new covenant in Christ is the new covenant confirmed for 7 years? Which Christians don't do. It is not a requirement of the Christian faith.

In Judaism, there is a requirement by Moses to read the law to the nation of Israel every 7 years.
 
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jgr

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You are claiming that Christians refer to the new covenant in Christ is the new covenant confirmed for 7 years? Which Christians don't do. It is not a requirement of the Christian faith.

Quote the claim.

In Judaism, there is a requirement by Moses to read the law to the nation of Israel every 7 years.

Christianity is not an "ism".
 
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BABerean2

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And with all those beautiful verses you quoted, you have yet shown any relevance of the gospel to Daniel 9 or to the new covenant!

The New Covenant is to the Jew! Let me remind you again of what GOD said:


You are attempting to ignore the word "now" in the passage below, which quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34, word-for-word. The Old Testament text quoted is in all Capital letters in the NKJV.


Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.



If the Messiah's death is in Daniel 9, then the New Covenant must be in Daniel 9 based on the verse below.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


We find the same word "now" below.
The first two verses quote directly from Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.


If you have to ignore the word "now" in the scripture above to make modern Dispensational Theology work, you have revealed the doctrine for what it really is.

..................................................................

Based on the verse below there is no need for a human teacher for those who are a part of the New Covenant.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Holy Spirit teacher promised in John 14:26 is found above.
Do you deny this truth?

.
 
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Douggg

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If you could show us at least one other person on the planet who agrees with you on this, you might be able to sell your idea.

Otherwise, you are wasting our time, and yours.


.
boondoggle
 
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Douggg

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Quote the claim.

Christianity is not an "ism".
You are evading acknowledging that there is no requirement in Christianity to confirm the new covenant in Christ for 7 years, nor any such tradition in Christianity.
 
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jgr

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You are evading acknowledging that there is no requirement in Christianity to confirm the new covenant in Christ for 7 years, nor any such tradition in Christianity.

You are evading acknowledging that Daniel 9:24-27 is all about Christ -- Scripturally, historically, and grammatically.
 
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