What if it's just not a witch hunt?

GreatLakes4Ever · Oct 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
When the officials at the IRS stop their witch hunt we can finally see the tax returns.

Then you can cry about how little you understand about business.

The IRS has said you are allowed to release your tax returns while they are under audit. The IRS is not the reason we haven’t seen them. Trump is. I think it is because if he released them we would see he isn’t rich at all.

JackRT · Oct 30, 2020

Under One King said:
Funny, I would say the same about you.

No, I Won’t Agree To Disagree About This President. You’re Just Wrong.
October 19, 2020 / John Pavlovitz

To Whom It May Concern,

We recently found ourselves in a now-familiar location: hopelessly stuck in an unnavigable impasse on our respective paths, unable to find a way forward. And, as in so many times before, when the friction became too great and the exchange too heated and the tension too uncomfortable, you dropped an all-too-familiar final salvo designed to stop conversation and temporarily defuse the situation:

“We’re just going to have to agree to disagree.”

I disagree. I refuse these terms.

Such a concession assumes that we both have equally valid opinions, that we’re each mutually declaring those opinions not so divergent that they cannot be abided; that our relationship is of greater value than the differences—but that isn’t exactly true for me.

We don’t just disagree here—you’re wrong.

I believe you’re deeply, profoundly, and egregiously wrong; the kind of wrong about the kinds of things that I can no longer excuse or make peace with or overlook—because that would be a denial of who I am and what matters to me, the values I have spent a lifetime forming.

This is not a disagreement.

We are not simply declaring mismatched preferences regarding something inconsequential. We’re not talking about who has the best offensive line in the NFL, or whether Van Halen was better with Dave or Sammy, or about what craft beer pairs best with a cheesesteak, or about the sonic differences of CDs and vinyl. On such matters (though I will provide spirited debate), I can tolerate dissension.

We’re not even talking about clear misalignments on very important things: how to best address climate change or what will fix our healthcare system or how to reduce our national debt or what it will take to bring racial equity. Those subjects, while critically important, still have room for constructive debate and differing solutions. They are mendable fractures.

But this, this runs far deeper and into the marrow of who we each are.

At this point, with the past four years as a resume, your alignment with this president means that we are fundamentally disconnected on what is morally acceptable—and I’ve simply seen too much to explain that away or rationalize your intentions or give you the benefit of the doubt any longer.

I know what your reaffirmation of him is telling me about your disregard for the lives of people of color, about your opinion of women, about your attitude toward Science, about the faith you so loudly profess, and about your elemental disrespect for bedrock truth. I now can see how pliable your morality is, the kinds of compromises you’re willing to make, the ever-descending bottom you’re following into, in order to feel victorious in a war you don’t even know why you’re fighting.

That’s why I need you to understand that this isn’t just a schism on one issue or a single piece of legislation, as those things would be manageable. This isn’t a matter of politics or preference. This is a pervasive, sprawling, saturating separation about the way we see the world and what we value and how we want to move through this life.

Agreeing to disagree with you in these matters, would mean silencing myself and more importantly, betraying the people who bear the burdens of your political affiliations— and this is not something I’m willing to do. Our relationship matters greatly to me, but if it has to be the collateral damage of standing with them, I’ll have to see that as acceptable.

Your devaluing of black lives is not an opinion.
Your acceptance of falsehoods is not an opinion.
Your defiance of facts in a pandemic is not an opinion.
Your hostility toward immigrants is not an opinion.
These are fundamental heart issues.

I’m telling you this so that when the chair is empty this Thanksgiving, or the calls don’t come, or you meet with radio silence, or you begin to notice the slow fade of our exchanges, I want you to know why: it’s because I have learned how morally incompatible we are. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect you or even love you, but it means proximity to you isn’t going to be healthy.

I’ve been disagreeing with people all my life. That isn’t the issue here.

Were we talking about anything less than the lives of other human beings, I’d be more than willing to disagree with you and, but since we are talking about the lives of other human beings—I can’t.

I believe you’re wrong in ways that are harming people.
You’re wrong to deny the humanity of other human beings.
You’re wrong to justify your affiliation with this violence.
You’re wrong to embrace a movement built on the worst parts of who we are.

I simply can’t agree to that.

rambot · Oct 30, 2020

disciple Clint said:
What if Biden is in fact corrupt and Russia and China own him? What if he sends or jobs to China? What if his spending and taxing tanks our economy. What if the Biden administration erodes our rights. What if Trump restores our economy, helps our minorities, protects our constitutional rights and gives us a safe nation free from the violence that the liberals encourage. What if???

I know it's hard to answer the many direct questions in the OP. But why don't you try instead of raising a white flag?

I will happily answer yours if you do the same.

rambot · Oct 30, 2020

royal priest said:
Considering Marxism has always led to the genocide of millions of children it isn't very difficult for me to recognize who the guilty party really is. #defund planned parenthood #Trump 2020
One might argue that the Democratic party isn't forcing anyone to be murdered but they will force me to contribute to its funding.

ok. So you don't really understand what Marxism is and how patently ridiculous it is to believe that the Democrats are avowed "Marxist globalists"

One "might argue" those things? Yeah. This sounds like a reasonable and fact based starting point

rambot · Oct 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
Trump is not desperate for a job.

He hasn't even taken a salary for his position as president.

Joe Biden has been leeching off the public coffers his whole life. Yet somehow he is exceedingly wealthy.

You've spent more on his vacations than the salary he donated. Talk about a moot point

His properties overbill the government...unless 3bucks for a glass of water makes sense.

Why do you pretend that means nothing?

Carter sold his family farm and wanted to get audited every year he was president....and now you've devolved to that

Paulos23 · Oct 30, 2020

GoldenBoy89 said:
The media also don’t talk much about the secret cabal of lizard people who run the world behind the scenes. They must be trying to suppress the truth about them too.

It is in movie form:

Paulos23 · Oct 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
Trump is not desperate for a job.

He hasn't even taken a salary for his position as president.

Joe Biden has been leeching off the public coffers his whole life. Yet somehow he is exceedingly wealthy.

Trump is desperate to be seen as successful and to keep the power of the President to not get prosecuted when he leaves.

Such desires will drive people over the edge.

durangodawood · Oct 30, 2020

JackRT said:
Both the Trump administration and a very large portion of his base have become detached from reality. It is painful to see how easily people are duped and can't see it in spite of massive evidence to the contrary.

I just read how a poster here is worried about blm and antifa disrupting polling places. Yes. Trump types have truly lost their grip. Instead they are in the grip of their right wing media addiction.

dqhall · Oct 30, 2020

GreatLakes4Ever said:
The IRS has said you are allowed to release your tax returns while they are under audit. The IRS is not the reason we haven’t seen them. Trump is. I think it is because if he released them we would see he isn’t rich at all.

If he released his tax returns the public might be outraged. They might learn he paid little or no taxes while he stated tens of millions of dollars income on his financial disclosure.

Fantine · Oct 30, 2020

I don't care if he releases his tax returns. I am completely satisfied that the exhaustive reports printed by the NY Times are 100% correct. They have been released--whether he acknowledges it or not.
I do want the actual returns to be cleared by the Supreme Court to Manhattan Criminal Courts as soon as possible. It's been through the courts once, and he has lost all the cases on the second run through, and now it's up to the Supreme Court.
There is a new Supreme Court now, and we will have the chance to see whether they are interested in law and accountability or if they are part of the problem.

Kenny'sID · Oct 30, 2020

KCfromNC said:
Well then it managed to find a whole lot of witches doing illegal witch-like stuff.

People say a lot of things..

KCfromNC said:
People say lots of things. But if you look at who has evidence to support what they say, a pattern starts to emerge. For example, the graph posted in the OP vs. empty rhetoric of people looking for excuses to dismiss it.

Oh, you mean like the evidence they had for russian collision.

Got ya,

Kentonio · Oct 30, 2020

When the guys who hold the positions of power are STILL the ones with a mass of their people being jailed, it shows you just how bad their position is.

Kenny'sID · Oct 30, 2020

rambot said:
If you answer the question in the op, I'd happily reply to your question.

I did, what if it is.

JohnDB · Oct 30, 2020

Paulos23 said:
Trump is desperate to be seen as successful and to keep the power of the President to not get prosecuted when he leaves.

Such desires will drive people over the edge.

Ummmm
It's one thing to repeat rhetoric...
It's another thing altogether to believe it.

Maria Billingsley · Oct 30, 2020

rambot said:
But what if Trump is actually doingb things? Remember how his business practices are run? He's got lawsuits out the tuccous. Why should it be rational to believe anything else he touches would be free of this dishonesty? By his fruits you'll know the guy; it's not like his lying can be denied. Well, what if what is happening is actually happenning?

What if it's all real? What if every story we hear about trump's malfiscience is true? What if only half is true? Do governments hand impeachments out like candy or what if there is legal weight and fact supporting it?

What if he is a manipulative narcissist? Would it run counter to the story of his life this far? In what way has Donald Trump shone for the betterment of mankind? There are so many absolutely terrible stories about him. Where are all the bubbly stories of how great or compassionate he is. Where are the High school buddies saying he's a real stand up guy? Old school friends saying how much he cared about America.
Or what a considerate 1st, 2nd, or 3rd husband or father? What if is not those things. What if he was a dispassionate distant figure?

What if you were wrong and he was not "good"?

Would it matter? So long as your policies are supported?

If democracy was compromised by your party; if years of disenfranchisement of so many came to a head and you benefitted, would it matter to you?

Would anything else matter?

Day in and day out he displays unrighteousness. He never repents. Shame on all his spiritual advisers who decieve him into thinking he is "the chosen one". They ride the beast. Blessings.

Paulos23 · Oct 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
Ummmm
It's one thing to repeat rhetoric...
It's another thing altogether to believe it.

Based on what I have read in the Muller report and the Impeachment, as well as all the cases of everyone that was indited from the administration and campaign, he has some crimes to answer for.

rambot · Oct 30, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
I did, what if it is.

You responded to my post. You didn't answer my question.

You just kvetched about the left.

Kenny'sID · Oct 30, 2020

rambot said:
You responded to my post. You didn't answer my question.

You just kvetched about the left.

Ok

Maria Billingsley · Oct 30, 2020

rambot said:
But what if Trump is actually doingb things? Remember how his business practices are run? He's got lawsuits out the tuccous. Why should it be rational to believe anything else he touches would be free of this dishonesty? By his fruits you'll know the guy; it's not like his lying can be denied. Well, what if what is happening is actually happenning?

What if it's all real? What if every story we hear about trump's malfiscience is true? What if only half is true? Do governments hand impeachments out like candy or what if there is legal weight and fact supporting it?

What if he is a manipulative narcissist? Would it run counter to the story of his life this far? In what way has Donald Trump shone for the betterment of mankind? There are so many absolutely terrible stories about him. Where are all the bubbly stories of how great or compassionate he is. Where are the High school buddies saying he's a real stand up guy? Old school friends saying how much he cared about America.
Or what a considerate 1st, 2nd, or 3rd husband or father? What if is not those things. What if he was a dispassionate distant figure?

What if you were wrong and he was not "good"?

Would it matter? So long as your policies are supported?

If democracy was compromised by your party; if years of disenfranchisement of so many came to a head and you benefitted, would it matter to you?

Would anything else matter?

Continued...
The will of the Father for all who are in His Body is to spread the "Good News of the Gospel". He did not command us to take control of the political system at all cost. It is shameful to lead a man, Mr. Trump, into the abyss of sin. It is shameful to lift him up in idolatry while his soul is taken by the adversary. Leading those to the wide road of destruction is shameful and not the will of the Father.

timothyu · Oct 30, 2020

Maria Billingsley said:
The will of the Father for all who are in His Body is to spread the "Good News of the Gospel". He did not command us to take control of the political system at all cost. It is shameful to lead a man, Mr. Trump, into the abyss of sin. It is shameful to lift him up in idolatry while his soul is taken by the adversary. Leading those to the wide road of destruction is shameful and not the will of the Father.

That applies to both sides of a political arena and says more about the state of Christianity and those who play the game than of worldly politics.

What if it's just not a witch hunt?

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