Do People Believe Homosexuality Still Abomination To God?

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Sure. There's no question that marriage between male and female is the typical case. But we make accommodations for exceptions all the time. God created Adam and Eve with two legs each, but we use wheelchairs for exceptions. To use a more controversial example, Jesus prohibited divorce, but there are times when staying in the marriage is even worse. (Matthew and Paul cited specific examples of exceptions.) I consider gay marriage an accommodation for people for whom heterosexual relationships would be impossible or dangerous. 1 Cor 7:9 notes the dangers of trying to maintain celibacy when you don't have the gift.

Indeed the discussion of AIDS and other STDs points in that direction. You really want to encourage gays to be faithful to a single partner. It's even more important for them to provide the kind of social support for such a relationship that marriage provides.

I'm aware that divorce is still controversial, although not as much as a few decades ago. There are Christians who don't agree that exceptions are allowed. But they don't confidently proclaim that people who disagree aren't Christians or that Western civilization is about to fall because of it. (Although frankly, the inability and in some cases lack of desire of heterosexuals to maintain faithful marriages may well be a danger to Western civilization larger than a few married gays ever could be.)

After reading Jeremiah 23 it looks like the acceptance and promotion of those very sins is wrong. Christians can't have a hand in helping them to continue in or even make it more acceptable. We can only try to turn them towards what is right. I can find nothing in the teachings that says we are to make accommodations.
 
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dqhall

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So does heterosexual adultery. The main growth in STD's is in the elderly after the invention of Viagra.

So can heterosexual acts be a sin?
Premarital sex and adultery are sins. Prostitution is a sin.

If heterosexual sex was wrong, would you have been born?
 
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Hazelelponi

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Sure. There's no question that marriage between male and female is the typical case. But we make accommodations for exceptions all the time. God created Adam and Eve with two legs each, but we use wheelchairs for exceptions. To use a more controversial example, Jesus prohibited divorce, but there are times when staying in the marriage is even worse. (Matthew and Paul cited specific examples of exceptions.) I consider gay marriage an accommodation for people for whom heterosexual relationships would be impossible or dangerous. 1 Cor 7:9 notes the dangers of trying to maintain celibacy when you don't have the gift.

Indeed the discussion of AIDS and other STDs points in that direction. You really want to encourage gays to be faithful to a single partner. It's even more important for them to provide the kind of social support for such a relationship that marriage provides.

I'm aware that divorce is still controversial, although not as much as a few decades ago. There are Christians who don't agree that exceptions are allowed. But they don't confidently proclaim that people who disagree aren't Christians or that Western civilization is about to fall because of it. (Although frankly, the inability and in some cases lack of desire of heterosexuals to maintain faithful marriages may well be a danger to Western civilization larger than a few married gays ever could be.)

Just a heads up, but Jesus condemned Moses' accommodation for the sin of divorce, saying that while Moses (man) allowed for the accommodation God never did.

He was quick to point out we should never accommodate sin, but rather call people to repentance from it. To the woman accused of adultery He told her to go and sin no more.

He even sent us His Holy Spirit so they we could walk in His statutes...

So your accomodations for sin is not God's way... God may forgive it, but he never accommodates and encourages it.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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He (God) is very clear on identifying the act of homosexuality as a sin.
This statement has always confused me.

I know some author's wrote about their view of God, some of that was assembled into what we now call the bible - but I never assumed they had a complete picture themselves. I always assumed they were doing their best to 1) Understand God, 2) Put God into words.

I didn't think they were wholly correct or incorrect about everything.
I spend most of my time in the scriptures trying to read between the lines and so, saying God has clearly said something is a tough one for me to get my head around.
 
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hedrick

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This statement has always confused me.

I know some author's wrote about their view of God, some of that was assembled into what we now call the bible - but I never assumed they had a complete picture themselves. I always assumed they were doing their best to 1) Understand God, 2) Put God into words.

I didn't think they were wholly correct or incorrect about everything.
I spend most of my time in the scriptures trying to read between the lines and so, saying God has clearly said something is a tough one for me to get my head around.
Sure, but most participants in this discussion think the Bible is directly God's word. You have the typical mainline understanding of the Bible as a collection of works by people who had encountered God is one way or another and were describing that.

These understandings are associated with very different ideas of what Christianity is. Discussions like this bring that out very clearly.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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Sure, but most participants in this discussion think the Bible is directly God's word. You have the typical mainline understanding of the Bible as a collection of works by people who had encountered God is one way or another and were describing that.

These understandings are associated with very different ideas of what Christianity is. Discussions like this bring that out very clearly.
Sure :)
 
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hedrick

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My opinion here: It is likely a mistake to reduce spiritual teaching from Jesus or anyone else into a set of rules accompanied by policies. (Generally speaking).
Right. But from very early days Christianity did exactly that. It has been what I would consider legalistic from the 2nd Century. As far as I can see Jesus specifically rejected that approach.

You can see in Paul why that might have happened. Roman culture was really a moral disaster. He (and many others in the early church) had to mentor converts. They did this by teaching contemporary Jewish standards. While Paul understood in principle the problems with Law, when put in the position of dealing with pagan converts, he took an approach that tends to look legalistic. He tried to mitigate that by saying that we really weren't bound by law, it's just that not everything is helpful. But when it came down to cases, he used the same "two ways" approach and sin lists as everyone else in the 1st Cent (not just Jews but the better pagan moralists).

That approach became even more extreme in the early church, with many Christians claiming that once you were baptized no forgiveness was possible at all. (At least in the church. Possibly God would ultimately forgive.) At this point Paul's practical compromise had been turned into a complete reversal of Jesus. Unfortunately this has continued. Rather than Jesus' emphasis on intent and what helps people, the Bible has been turned into a quote mine for rules. And now that's what 90% of the world, inside and outside the Church, think Jesus wanted.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Right. But from very early days Christianity did exactly that. It has been what I would consider legalistic from the 2nd Century. As far as I can see Jesus specifically rejected that approach.

You can see in Paul why that might have happened. Roman culture was really a moral disaster. He (and many others in the early church) had to mentor converts. They did this by teaching contemporary Jewish standards. While Paul understood in principle the problems with Law, when put in the position of dealing with pagan converts, he took an approach that tends to look legalistic. He tried to mitigate that by saying that we really weren't bound by law, it's just that not everything is helpful. But when it came down to cases, he used the same "two ways" approach and sin lists as everyone else in the 1st Cent (not just Jews but the better pagan moralists).

That approach became even more extreme in the early church, with many Christians claiming that once you were baptized no forgiveness was possible at all. (At least in the church. Possibly God would ultimately forgive.) At this point Paul's practical compromise had been turned into a complete reversal of Jesus. Unfortunately this has continued. Rather than Jesus' emphasis on intent and what helps people, the Bible has been turned into a quote mine for rules. And now that's what 90% of the world, inside and outside the Church, think Jesus wanted.


So basically you think God has zero standard for morality that His people should follow as followers of Christ?

We can have orgies in the middle of church then.... you know, since there's no laws or morality that God concerns himself with?

Jesus's one command and demand WAS to repent...

I guess that had zero to do with sin, since sin doesn't exist today right?


There's a difference between law mining, which your accusing us of here, and the belief that God has a morality by which he commands His people to live which is unchanging as it's based in His Holiness.

Love is great - but it turns to being a hateful act when you refuse to implore the sinner to turn away from sin because you "love" them too much to risk offending them. Satan is deceptive indeed...

Learn what love is, and what it's not... it's not preaching the wide road.
 
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JohnDB

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What I find baffling about homosexual behavior is their use of the rain bow...

The rain bow is a weapon of God's that was hung up... like retired from use and put on display as a treasure from days past...also as a promise that God will not use it again.

But to wave it in God's face as a symbol that you are getting away with an abomination of sinful behavior...
Obviously they have no respect or fear whatsoever of the living God.
That fire bow is not hung up...
Nor is the plague bow
Nor is the hail bow
Nor is a whole host of bows.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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So basically you think God has zero standard for morality that His people should follow as followers of Christ?

We can have orgies in the middle of church then.... you know, since there's no laws or morality that God concerns himself with?

Jesus's one command and demand WAS to repent...

I guess that had zero to do with sin, since sin doesn't exist today right?


There's a difference between law mining, which your accusing us of here, and the belief that God has a morality by which he commands His people to live which is unchanging as it's based in His Holiness.

Love is great - but it turns to being a hateful act when you refuse to implore the sinner to turn away from sin because you "love" them too much to risk offending them. Satan is deceptive indeed...
You put a lot of words in the guys mouth there. That is either 1) A mistake by you, 2) A mistake by me or 3) You're not telling the truth / being dishonest.

If it's 3, that indicates malice on your part.
 
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Hazelelponi

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You put a lot of words in the guys mouth there. That is either 1) A mistake by you, 2) A mistake by me or 3) You're not telling the truth / being dishonest.

If it's 3, that indicates malice on your part.

Do I feel disgust? Absolutely. He's calling moral that which God calls immoral. Enlightened that which God calls an abomination.

And then stoops to accusing Christians of law mining the Bible instead of recognising God has a morality that doesn't change which He calls His people to.

So I pushed the topic to its limit... God either has an unchanging morality or he doesn't.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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Do I feel disgust? Absolutely.
Disgust is supposed to help you. It is there to stop you eating your own fecal matter for example, but, it is just circuitry in your brain firing to alert you. It's not necessarily correct.

He's calling moral that which God calls immoral. Enlightened that which God calls an abomination.
This is probably still your "disgust" alarm bell ringing.

And then stoops to accusing Christians of law mining the Bible instead of recognising God has a morality that doesn't change which He calls His people to.
What I'm thinking here is that you've gone on the offensive to the "threat". But, maybe Hedrick has a point. Once the initial reaction of disgust fades, you could talk to God about it?

So I pushed the topic to its limit... God either has an unchanging morality or he doesn't.
You pushed the topic to it's limit, of your own accord (fine), but, you also made it look like Hedrick was saying something much more extreme than he said. If this was deliberate - it was a lie. It's might have been a mistake though and you misunderstood Hedrick. (Or I'm mistaken and misunderstanding the whole thing - theres room for that possibility).
 
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Hazelelponi

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The rain bow is a weapon of God's that was hung up... like retired from use and put on display as a treasure from days past...also as a promise that God will not use it again.

That’s cool. Every time I see a rainbow I think of His promise not to use that weapon.
 
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Quartermaine

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What I find baffling about homosexual behavior is their use of the rain bow...

The rain bow is a weapon of God's that was hung up... like retired from use and put on display as a treasure from days past...also as a promise that God will not use it again.

But to wave it in God's face as a symbol that you are getting away with an abomination of sinful behavior...
Obviously they have no respect or fear whatsoever of the living God.
That fire bow is not hung up...
Nor is the plague bow
Nor is the hail bow
Nor is a whole host of bows.
In 1978 the rainbow flag was created as a symbol by the LGBT community as a symbol of unity and hope in the face of hate, discrimination and violence.
 
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Quartermaine

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Do I feel disgust? Absolutely. He's calling moral that which God calls immoral. Enlightened that which God calls an abomination.

And then stoops to accusing Christians of law mining the Bible instead of recognising God has a morality that doesn't change which He calls His people to.

So I pushed the topic to its limit... God either has an unchanging morality or he doesn't.
DO Christians live under the law or did God change things and Christians now live under the covenant?
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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In 1978 the rainbow flag was created as a symbol by the LGBT community as a symbol of unity and hope in the face of hate, discrimination and violence.
Well, it's ours. ;-)
 
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