ad hominem attacks duly noted and a caricature once again. I have yet to see anyone promote "CHEAP GRACE "
What is see being promoted is the self righteousness of the Pharisees as per Matthew 23- legalism.
Upvote
0
want to talk about OSAS?
- Thread starter returntosender
- Start date
What is see being promoted is the self righteousness of the Pharisees as per Matthew 23- legalism.
now you flip flopped and are making excuses with Peter. Either sin does or does not disqualify ones salvation.
thats your theology not mine. its your dilemma, the pickle your teaching results in, the contradictions is makes etc......
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,508
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
That is exactly what you are doing when you tell people that king David was saved WHILE he commited his sins of adultery and murder. Basically any child will take that as meaning they can sin and still be saved (Thereby helping to make yet another George Sodini).
To learn more about George Sodini, check out these articles:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY
George Sodini - EternalSecurity.us
You said:
I don't think you really read that chapter and understood what it said. In Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42, we learn that Jesus tells the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy. The pharisees put on a false show of religion and man made traditions that was not a part of God's Word. The Pharisees said one thing and did another. Meaning, they were hypocrites. They appeared religious to men outwardly but inside they were full of iniquity (sin) and hypocrisy. So it really had nothing to do with the Pharisees living righteously by God's standards that Jesus condemned them for. Non Catholic Conditional Salvationists are not promoting any man made traditions here. We are quoting God's Word to you and not traditions. So your claim that we are promoting the same false man made traditions is simply a false claim that has no substance. You are just blindly throwing out a chapter in the Bible in the hope it defends you when you do not have a proper understanding on what that chapter is even about. For Matthew 23 is not condeming in living righteously by God's standards. If you believe otherwise, then you need to prove that by quoting the verse or passage from Matthew 23.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,508
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
I am not flip flopping with anything. I simply do not know. We look through a glass darkly. If the Bible condemns the kind of hypocrisy that Peter did with warnings of hellfire and condemnation, then I will say Peter was not saved during the time he was being a hypocrite, but that does not mean Peter cannot confess this sin to the Lord and be forgiven (saved) again. But the Bible is simply not clear from my view on this matter. I do not see all sin as the same. I believe there are mortal sins, and non-mortal sins. Mortal sins are any sins in the Bible that it condemns with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation.
Upvote
0
1an
Newbie
God looks on the heart and not the outward appearance. He knows your motives and is not fooled.
Proverbs 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the Lord weighs the motives.
Jeremiah 17:10 “I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
1 Kings 8:39 then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men,
Jeremiah 12:3 But You know me, O Lord; You see me; And You examine my heart’s attitude toward You. Drag them off like sheep for the slaughter And set them apart for a day of carnage!
1 Chronicles 28:9 “As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.
Psalm 139:1 For the choir director. A Psalm of David. O Lord, You have searched me and known me.
Psalm 44:21 Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart.
1 Samuel 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,508
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
The topic is OSAS! It's not Justification by Faith. Or by works.
Then one cannot have a discussion on OSAS. A person can deny God by a lack of works according to Titus 1:16. The unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth in Matthew 25:31. In other words, a believer can be unfruitful and be cut off like a branch and burned. These truths in Scripture refute OSAS and they deal with our works.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,508
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
The topic is OSAS! It's not Justification by Faith. Or by works.
As I suspected. You would not answer my questions. I believe this to be the case because it will expose to others what your belief really is (i.e. A license for immorality on some level). If I am wrong, then please answer the questions. If you do not know, then simply say, I do not know.
Upvote
0
Another set of scriptures that are oten use in the same way you mention:
Matthew 23
1
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3
So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Ive seen that twisted into meaning the law and works are not necessary by melding real law with the petty laws the pharasees made up, then surmising Christ doesnt like all law/works. And that, when the scripture is so clear.
The scripture states don't do as the pharasees do, as in not obeying the things they tell others to do, and for doing outwardly for others to see, when the do actual works. It does not state, we dont keep the law and that we shouldnt do works as it is twisted to mean.
Problem is when these twists take place while teaching OSAS, so many don't bother to fact check them, I suppose because they want to believe OSAS so badly, why try to prove it wrong?
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,508
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
I now call it the dance. Any verses that so obviously contradicts their belief in OSAS, they have to dance around them in order to explain them away. Many verses cannot be read plainly and believed at face value if one believes in OSAS. This is why many of the verses I have put forth in this thread have went unanswered. The 1-3 OSAS proponents who have answered me with Scripture in return do so with the dance. This is unfortunate, and it is my hope that all of us Conditional Salvation believers should pray mightily that they may change and see how OSAS is unbiblical.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
The topic is OSAS! It's not Justification by Faith. Or by works.
If you cannot see the connection, i have no problem with that, and hope you can do the same.
Upvote
0
Danthemailman
Well-Known Member
- Jul 18, 2017
- 3,703
- 2,813
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I already answered your question but I see that you didn’t bother to answer my question.
Upvote
0
Albion
Facilitator
It's not that it is possible to make a connection, depending on how it's done, but it's not a necessary connection.
If that is not recognized (and it hasn't been often recognized in the course of this discussion) it allows the critics to attack Calvinism and get OSAS along with it. In reality, though, a good case case be made for Eternal Security by people who are not Calvinists and do not buy into every other thing Calvin had to say.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,508
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Ezekiel 33:18 says,
“When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity,
he shall die because of it.”
Yet another verse that refutes OSAS.
“When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity,
he shall die because of it.”
Yet another verse that refutes OSAS.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,508
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
There is no Eternal Security.
1 Corinthians 10:12 says,
“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
1 Corinthians 10:12 says,
“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
Upvote
0
You know, the last thinhg I would do is call you or anyone else out for an unnecessary connection.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
I simply wanted you to show me what part, but if you cannot...honestly, that is what I expected, but thought I'd give benefit of the doubt before I drew conclusion
Thanks just the same.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
- Poll
