Gabriel, in Daniel 8, in Daniel 9, what vision, what transgression in Daniel 9:23-24?

Timtofly said:

Who is the leader of spiritual wickedness in high places?

Click to expand...

The Biblical text doesn't state anything there about "Spiritual wickedness". This is a Messianic prophecy:

mkgal1 said:

The Biblical text doesn't state anything there about "Spiritual wickedness". This is a Messianic prophecy:

Daniel 9:25
Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah​

Click to expand...

Daniel 9:27
"He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]."

He being the Messiah. Only God makes covenants when it comes to God’s prophecy. The leaders are not human governments. The leaders are those who oppose God over the affairs of humanity. This one week is the 70th week. The Covenant was made prior to Jesus getting baptized. Since the Baptism started the 7 years of God working physically on the earth.

Satan was already trying to get Messiah to break covenant when he tempted Jesus just after the baptism. The Cross cut the 7 years in half. There was still 3.5 years of the covenant remaining. It was not about the disciples or the temple. It is about God physically on earth dealing with Satan and the leaders of wickedness. Nothing else can historically fit what this covenant was or is. The NT definitely does not show us a covenant between Jesus and the Sanhedren. Nor can it be between the Roman Empire and the Jewish rebellion. The emperor was the leader. He did not make a covenant with himself. Nor would the covenant be with the rebel leaders. Surely Josephus would have written about this covenant, no? If that were the case it would have nothing to do with God on earth. So why did Daniel include the Messiah, if it was just between Rome and rebel leaders of Palestine?

Daniel was either talking about a covenant between God and Satan, or it was a covenant that happened and Josephus never wrote about it, nor did any NT author.

Those who claim the whole 7 years is still future, dismiss that the Messiah as the Lamb of God already completed 3.5 years and the Cross cut the 7 years in half. It seems to me those years were the most important of all history. The Cross was part of those 3.5 years. Not even Satan can undo that part of the covenant. It is finished, and done, and completed. The future event is just the final harvest.

mkgal1 said:

The Biblical text doesn't state anything there about "Spiritual wickedness". This is a Messianic prophecy:

Click to expand...

Timtofly said:

Daniel 9:27
"He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]."

He being the Messiah. Only God makes covenants when it comes to God’s prophecy. The leaders are not human governments. The leaders are those who oppose God over the affairs of humanity. This one week is the 70th week. The Covenant was made prior to Jesus getting baptized. Since the Baptism started the 7 years of God working physically on the earth.

Satan was already trying to get Messiah to break covenant when he tempted Jesus just after the baptism. The Cross cut the 7 years in half. There was still 3.5 years of the covenant remaining. It was not about the disciples or the temple. It is about God physically on earth dealing with Satan and the leaders of wickedness. Nothing else can historically fit what this covenant was or is. The NT definitely does not show us a covenant between Jesus and the Sanhedren. Nor can it be between the Roman Empire and the Jewish rebellion. The emperor was the leader. He did not make a covenant with himself. Nor would the covenant be with the rebel leaders. Surely Josephus would have written about this covenant, no? If that were the case it would have nothing to do with God on earth. So why did Daniel include the Messiah, if it was just between Rome and rebel leaders of Palestine?

Daniel was either talking about a covenant between God and Satan, or it was a covenant that happened and Josephus never wrote about it, nor did any NT author.
.

Click to expand...

That is imposing a lot of ideas that are not in the text (or even in the Bible narrative)....completely distorting the message.

Those who claim the whole 7 years is still future, dismiss that the Messiah as the Lamb of God already completed 3.5 years and the Cross cut the 7 years in half. It seems to me those years were the most important of all history. The Cross was part of those 3.5 years.

Click to expand...

I agree with you on this much (about the Cross being in the midst of the 70th week and how critical that is).

mkgal1 said:

That is imposing a lot of ideas that are not in the text (or even in the Bible narrative)....completely distorting the message.


I agree with you on this much (about the Cross being in the midst of the 70th week and how critical that is).

Click to expand...

Yet you do not explain the covenant at all?

Jesus Christ came to earth to dispel spiritual wickedness, no?

Timtofly said:

Jesus Christ came to earth to dispel spiritual wickedness, no?

Click to expand...

I don't read Scripture to say that, no.
Isaiah's prophecy of God blotting out sin to never be remembered again wasn't fulfilled until the New Covenant.

Timtofly said:

Yet you do not explain the covenant at all?

Click to expand...

I believe I've shared this before. I'll let these guys explain, because they're certainly gifted with the ability to summarize most of the Biblical narrative in less than 6 minutes:

"Video: The Covenants | BibleProject™" Video: The Covenants | BibleProject™

mkgal1 said:

I don't read Scripture to say that, no.
Isaiah's prophecy of God blotting out sin to never be remembered again wasn't fulfilled until the New Covenant.

Isaiah 43:25
I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more.​

Click to expand...

Spiritual wickedness is not sin. Sin is disobedience to God. Spiritual wickedness is giving one's self completely over to Satan. All nations without the Hebrew witness given to them, were immersed in spiritual wickedness. They were not taught any different, unless like the Ethiopian who traveled to Jerusalem and was reading Isaiah. Or the Hebrew slaves who showed loving kindness on their pagan captors.

That is why the Cross opened up all Nations with the light of the Gospel. It was not the Hebrews against the world. It was a grass roots movement to change Nations one citizen at a time, from within.