Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

nolidad · Oct 27, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Dr. Al Garza on the antecedent in Daniel 9:

.

Well if you would like I can get involved in dueling references.

My main reference is a native Hebrew Speaker, who also besides a THD and a masters in Greek grammar, also earned a bachelors in Hebrew Grammar from Hebrew U in Tel Aviv! Him as well as almost all Hebrew grammar sources online from Hebrew scholars in grammar. His name is Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum. This also shows the rule of grammar discussed! "his" refers back to the native Hebrew speaker and bypasses scholars because "scholars" do not match case and gender while "native speaker does".

He is the rule governing personal pronouns. when a personal pronoun is used it refers back to the closest personal noun that matches its case and gender.

The he of Daniel 9:27 is masculine singular, so it refers back to teh closest masculine singular personal noun before it.

Now in Daniel 9:26 there are two personal nouns and a personal pronoun.

The personal pronoun (himself) refers back to Messiah.

However after the personal noun messiah there appears a personal noun! It is Prince (of the people to come)

So by rule the he of 27 has to refer back to teh Prince. There is no warrant or rule in Hebrew to allow for a personal pronoun to skip a personal noun to refer back to another personal noun when the gender and case match!

Now, my wife is a fron tline hospital worker. I convinced her to take a few days off so I can take her away for refreshing and recharging. See you all on Friday!

Douggg · Oct 27, 2020

nolidad said:
Now, my wife is a fron tline hospital worker. I convinced her to take a few days off so I can take her away for refreshing and recharging. See you all on Friday!

please pass on, I wish her well. Her work is appreciated.

jgr · Oct 27, 2020

nolidad said:
Well if you would like I can get involved in dueling references.

My main reference is a native Hebrew Speaker, who also besides a THD and a masters in Greek grammar, also earned a bachelors in Hebrew Grammar from Hebrew U in Tel Aviv! Him as well as almost all Hebrew grammar sources online from Hebrew scholars in grammar. His name is Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum. This also shows the rule of grammar discussed! "his" refers back to the native Hebrew speaker and bypasses scholars because "scholars" do not match case and gender while "native speaker does".

He is the rule governing personal pronouns. when a personal pronoun is used it refers back to the closest personal noun that matches its case and gender.

The he of Daniel 9:27 is masculine singular, so it refers back to teh closest masculine singular personal noun before it.

Now in Daniel 9:26 there are two personal nouns and a personal pronoun.

The personal pronoun (himself) refers back to Messiah.

However after the personal noun messiah there appears a personal noun! It is Prince (of the people to come)

So by rule the he of 27 has to refer back to teh Prince. There is no warrant or rule in Hebrew to allow for a personal pronoun to skip a personal noun to refer back to another personal noun when the gender and case match!

Now, my wife is a fron tline hospital worker. I convinced her to take a few days off so I can take her away for refreshing and recharging. See you all on Friday!

Who does "the prince" in Daniel 9:26 refer back to?

There is only one other "the prince" which precedes "the prince" in Daniel 9:26.

He is Messiah the Prince in Daniel 9:25.

"The prince" in Daniel 9:26 is the same prince as "the prince" in Daniel 9:25.

He is Messiah "the Prince", the antecedent of "the prince" in Daniel 9:25.

From Dr. Andrew Carnie's acclaimed Syntax: A Generative Introduction :
"Antecedent: An NP that gives its meaning to another NP."
An NP is a Noun Phrase, encompassing nouns, pronouns, and their phrasal equivalents.
A Noun Phrase can be the antecedent of a following Noun.
Thus the Noun Phrase "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25 is the antecedent of the following Noun "prince" in Daniel 9:26.

Bro. Fruchtenbaum neglected the final step.

mkgal1 · Oct 27, 2020

nolidad said:
Well I only say that because you say the Covenant of Daniel 9 is the new covenant.

nolidad said:
Yes pAul did but what does that to do at all with the new covenant?

What Gospel was being preached in Jerusalem after Jesus's Resurrection, if not the New Covenant?

We can wait for you to get back to reply. I agree with Douggg's sentiment. Please let your wife know that her work is appreciated by many people.

mkgal1 · Oct 27, 2020

nolidad said:
there is nothing that says that the New covenant was taking the Gospel to the Jews first!

That's an argument from silence.

Daniel's prophecy carves out 490 years for Daniel's people (the ancient biblical Israelites):

Daniel 9:24
“A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

......and reality matches the prophecy. If it didn't....then Daniel, Jeremiah, and Isaiah (and Jesus) would have been false prophets.

BABerean2 · Oct 27, 2020

nolidad said:
His name is Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum.

Since Fruchtenbaum is a Dispensationalist, he is not an unbiased source.

I am still waiting on your answer to when, and how long, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, as described by Paul in Romans 1:16.

.

Douggg · Oct 27, 2020

BABerean2 said:
I am still waiting on your answer to when, and how long, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, as described by Paul in Romans 1:16.

Luke 21:44-48 beginning at Jerusalem - which had Jews and Gentiles in Jerusalem - to the nations.

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

mkgal1 · Oct 27, 2020

nolidad said:
So what happens after the 7 years or the 70th week to the new covenant and the Jews???

You mean "what happened after the 70th week?"

Just continue reading on in the New Testament.

Saul became Paul (was one major element of the changes occurring).

And this (the same promised gift of the Holy Spirit given to the believing Jews in Jerusalem was given to Gentiles and the circumcised believers, including Peter, were witnesses in unity):

Acts 10
30Cornelius answered: “Four days ago I was in my house praying at this, the ninth hour.g Suddenly a man in radiant clothing stood before me 31and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your gifts to the poor have been remembered before God. 32Therefore send to Joppa for Simon, who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, by the sea.’33So I sent for you immediately, and you were kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has instructed you to tell us.”

[For the sake of space, I'm not quoting the entire passage - but I believe it ALL should be read]

V.44-47
44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. 45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!”
Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message.

......which destroys the idea of two people of God and two separate plans of reconciliation.

nolidad said:
In this answer you are writing more like a Jehovah's Witness than a believer! The Bible unambiguously says a "he" and not a "they" establishes the covenant for one 7. Now you are saying Jesus and the disciples. which is it. The Bible "he" or your "they".?

I'm not sure what you're comparing about mine and JW's beliefs.....but was it not in the power of the Holy Spirit that Jesus's disciples advanced the Gospel? Were they not His Body? Jesus told His disciples this:

Luke 21
13This will be your opportunity to serve as witnesses. 14So make up your mind not to worry beforehand how to defend yourselves. 15For I will give you speech and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

nolidad said:
Also how do you reconcile the fact that the bible says that Messiah is cut off after 69 weeks, but using your time lines it isn't until 69 1/2 weeks?

The historical timeline has Jesus's crucifixion in 30 AD....halfway through the 70th week. Isn't 70 and 1/2 after 69 weeks?

70th week = 26/27 AD ------Cross (30 AD)----->34 AD (Gospel goes out to Gentiles).

Daniel 9:27
And He will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering

......I'm aware of the objection to sacrifices not ceasing...but if God is rejecting unecessary sacrifices, wasn't there an end in 30 AD? God's acceptance of sacrifices was a critical part of the ancient sacrificial process.

BABerean2 · Oct 27, 2020

Douggg said:
Luke 21:44-48 beginning at Jerusalem - which had Jews and Gentiles in Jerusalem - to the nations.

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

.

Timtofly · Oct 28, 2020

mkgal1 said:
First of all.....the invitation of a new covenant was out (as Jesus explained in His parables) to all of Israel and those of Judah. But, in the New Covenant, the criteria of circumcision changed. It was no longer a circumcision of the flesh (as in the Mosaic covenant) it was a circumcision of the heart. Jesus confronted these men (Pharisees) about that shift in covenant, in their day......as they were claiming their fleshly connection to Abraham made them heirs. Jesus informed them of how they'd truly be considered sons of Abraham (by following Abraham's example of faith):

John 8:37-39
I know you are Abraham’s descendants, but you are trying to kill Me because My word has no place within you. 38I speak of what I have seen in the presence of the Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.

Our father is Abraham!” they declared. “No,” Jesus replied, “for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example.

......and, secondly, notice who Peter’s audience was on Pentecost - 50 days after the Cross (Passover):

Acts 2
14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words....

The difference is - the new covenant is unconditional and can't be broken. Daniel 9 isn't a comprehensive new covenant lesson....it's mostly the Messianic timeline.

That's a requirement set up by futurists....not set by God. Christ Jesus is True Israel that kept the Mosaic Covenant. The Messiah was known to bring the covenant of peace.

You claim the 7 years ended, and he claims they are future. You both are equally wrong. 3.5 years have been cut in half. 3.5 years then, 3.5 years started 1 year ago. The time gets shorter each second. If the church repented of all sin and humbled themselves and turn from all wickedness, Satan would not get 42 months either. The Millennium would start when God healed all the nations.

People are too proud and think they have God figured out. Sounds like the way Satan thinks.

Douggg · Oct 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
.

They were not preaching the new covenant in Christ.

Luke 24:44-48. The new covenant in Christ, began to be spread to the nations, beginning in Jerusalem at that time. After the resurrection.

BABerean2 · Oct 28, 2020

Douggg said:
They were not preaching the new covenant in Christ.

Luke 24:44-48. The new covenant in Christ, began to be spread to the nations, beginning in Jerusalem at that time. After the resurrection.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

John the Baptist was the one who prepared the way for the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Once again, your attempt to tie the New Covenant to the resurrection falls apart in Hebrews 9:15, which reveals the New Covenant was fulfilled by His death.

.

Douggg · Oct 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Once again, your attempt to tie the New Covenant to the resurrection falls apart in Hebrews 9:15, which reveals the New Covenant was fulfilled by His death.

But you asked when did the New Covenant in Christ was spread to the nations. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day following his death. Luke 21:44-48 is the correct answer.

The verses you are quoting though are before his death, before the New Covenant, and were about the disciples spreading the news about the Kingdom of Heaven being near. Which later, Jesus said was taken from that generation.

mkgal1 · Oct 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
I am still waiting on your answer to when, and how long, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, as described by Paul in Romans 1:16

Douggg said:
Luke 21:44-48 beginning at Jerusalem - which had Jews and Gentiles in Jerusalem - to the nations.

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Douggg said:
They were not preaching the new covenant in Christ.

Luke 24:44-48. The new covenant in Christ, began to be spread to the nations, beginning in Jerusalem at that time. After the resurrection.

Douggg said:
But you asked when did the New Covenant in Christ was spread to the nations. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day following his death. Luke 21:44-48 is the correct answer.

The verses you are quoting though are before his death, before the New Covenant, and were about the disciples spreading the news about the Kingdom of Heaven being near. Which later, Jesus said was taken from that generation.

I'm having trouble following your answer to BABerean2's question. He asked:

"when, and how long, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, as described by Paul in Romans 1:16?"

......notice how Paul described "the Gospel":

Romans 1:16 ~ I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek.

jgr · Oct 28, 2020

Douggg said:
But you asked when did the New Covenant in Christ was spread to the nations. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day following his death. Luke 21:44-48 is the correct answer.

The verses you are quoting though are before his death, before the New Covenant, and were about the disciples spreading the news about the Kingdom of Heaven being near. Which later, Jesus said was taken from that generation.

Matthew 26
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The New Testament was already extant. It was confirmed by Jesus at His death, in fulfillment of Daniel 9:27.

parousia70 · Oct 28, 2020

Timtofly said:
3.5 years started 1 year ago.

So You have God figured out?

If the church repented of all sin and humbled themselves and turn from all wickedness, Satan would not get 42 months either.

What scripture teaches this?

People are too proud and think they have God figured out. Sounds like the way Satan thinks.

Interesting assertion, coming from the guy who said:
"3.5 years started 1 year ago"

parousia70 · Oct 28, 2020

Douggg said:
The verses you are quoting though are before his death, before the New Covenant, and were about the disciples spreading the news about the Kingdom of Heaven being near. Which later, Jesus said was taken from that generation.

What scripture do we find Jesus saying this?

BABerean2 · Oct 28, 2020

Douggg said:
The verses you are quoting though are before his death, before the New Covenant, and were about the disciples spreading the news about the Kingdom of Heaven being near.

Do you think you can separate the Kingdom of Heaven from the New Covenant?

How many people get into the Kingdom of Heaven through their own works?

.

BABerean2 · Oct 28, 2020

Douggg said:
But you asked when did the New Covenant in Christ was spread to the nations. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day following his death.

Do you think your answer above agrees with what Paul said below?

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

When was the gospel taken first to the Jews, and how long was this period of time?

.

Douggg · Oct 28, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Do you think you can separate the Kingdom of Heaven from the New Covenant?

How many people get into the Kingdom of Heaven through their own works?

BAB2, that was not the question. The question you had was when did the New Covenant first was preached to Jerusalem and the nations. The answer is in Luke 24:44-48.

Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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