want to talk about OSAS?

Are you an OSAS believer?

  • yes

    Votes: 27 43.5%
  • no

    Votes: 32 51.6%
  • of course

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    62

returntosender

EL ROI
Supporter
May 30, 2020
9,420
4,301
casa grande
✟340,484.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Correct. Jesus did it all.

All we need to do is to believe in Him, open our hearts door (Revelation 3:20), and remain faithful all the days of our life. Never allow sin to enter in, or like the rich young ruler never place more importance on the things of earth than the things of God. I know I sound like a Jeremiah, but his message was similar for if...

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
.
We all sin so the highlighted part of your post always causes a problem for me.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,664
2,799
Midwest
✟301,599.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Only way to get saved. Works won`t help you.
People who refuse to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation do seem to believe that works help save them. Here is a statement below from someone I was previously in a conversation with:

"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

I typically ask such people (but don't receive an answer) - "how many works must you accomplish and "add as a supplement" to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save you?"
 
Upvote 0

RickReads

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2020
3,433
1,068
59
richmond
✟64,831.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
People who refuse to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation do seem to believe that works help save them. Here is a statement below from someone I was previously in a conversation with:

"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

I typically ask such people (but don't receive an answer) - "how many works must you accomplish and "add as a supplement" to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save you?"

Everybody knows you can`t just say works save, but people who take out election salvation usually don`t recognize how their belief system put works into the salvation requirements.
 
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I typically ask such people (but don't receive an answer) - "how many works must you accomplish and "add as a supplement" to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save you?"

I'll be happy to answer your question. As many as you like, Christ gives no particular number in the bible because he leaves it up to our free will how many works we want to do. Simple.

That question is a very tired old attemp to stump, and I would suggest those who teach you such things come up with some new material if they are even going to have a chance at leading people astray.

My turn, can you have true faith without works?
 
Upvote 0

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,664
2,799
Midwest
✟301,599.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'll be happy to answer your question. As many as you like, Christ gives no particular number in the bible because he leaves it up to our free will how many works we want to do. Simple.

That question is a very tired old attemp to stump, and I would suggest those who teach you such things, come up with some new material if they are even going to have a chance at leading people astray.
So you have no answer to how many works we must accomplish in order to help Christ save us because Christ does not need our help. His finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. Simple.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: St_Worm2
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So you have no answer to how many works we must accomplish in order to help Christ save us because Christ does not need our help. His finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. Simple.

You arent listening, Dan, as many works as we like, that is how many. Did you not hear me whe I said the bible lists no specific number of works? As far as im concerned we can never do enough works, or good.

If your dad told you to get out there, an do good, take care of your brothers and sisrers, and do good things for them, and he will take care of you, do you then ask him how many good things must you do for them? Its a silly question,. If you had the nerve to ask as you clearly would, he would likely think you want to do just enough to get by, meaning he wont like the question at all.

So, I suggest you pose the question to God, and see how that goes.
 
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So you have no answer to how many works we must accomplish in order to help Christ save us because Christ does not need our help. His finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. Simple.

I added a question for you at the end of post 1005 if you care to answer.
 
Upvote 0

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,664
2,799
Midwest
✟301,599.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You arent listening, Dan, as many works as we like, that is how many. Did you not hear me whe I said the bible lists no specific number of works? As far as im concerned we can never do enough works, or good.
I’m listening and we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) so no amount of works could help Jesus save us. Plain and simple.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jesus is YHWH
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,664
2,799
Midwest
✟301,599.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I added a question for you at the end of post 1005 if you care to answer.
True faith is not without works. We are saved through faith apart from the merit of works yet true faith does not remain apart from the presence of works.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jesus is YHWH
Upvote 0

1an

Newbie
Dec 4, 2011
1,528
182
✟48,487.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
I think their name is Whosoeverwill.
Exactly. Whosoever will come believing.

I wonder who the elect of God are? Is it all believers, after all they chose Christ, or is it those who God has elected for a special work. What do you think?
.
 
Upvote 0

1an

Newbie
Dec 4, 2011
1,528
182
✟48,487.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
I'll be happy to answer your question. As many as you like, Christ gives no particular number in the bible because he leaves it up to our free will how many works we want to do. Simple.

That question is a very tired old attemp to stump, and I would suggest those who teach you such things come up with some new material if they are even going to have a chance at leading people astray.

My turn, can you have true faith without works?
my faith in God depends not on anything I have done, otherwise my faith would be in me and what I have done, and that's not a good idea.
.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jesus is YHWH
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
People who refuse to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation do seem to believe that works help save them. Here is a statement below from someone I was previously in a conversation with:

"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

I typically ask such people (but don't receive an answer) - "how many works must you accomplish and "add as a supplement" to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save you?"

This is not true. I have answered this one before a couple of times. The Bible says that the servant who was faithful over a FEW things was told that he could enter the joy of His Lord.

“His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).​

However, the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness.

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).
“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

full

The same word “justified” is used to talk about both works and faith. In fact, candyland Christianity promotes that we are saved by faith alone, but the Bible says we are not justified by faith alone. James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James says he will show his faith by his works (James 2:18). So a true faith always produces works. Thus, works are needed because the “work of faith” that Paul talks about is a part of the faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11); And we know that “without faith it is impossible to please Him [God]” (See: Hebrews 11:6). Again, James says he will show you his faith by his works. So works merely is a part of the faith, and without faith, it is impossible to please Him. That is why works are a necessary part of our salvation. But it is not our own works, but it is the good works that God does through us (Philippians 2:13).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I’m listening and we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) so amount of works could help Jesus save us. Plain and simple.

You are wrong, some works are required to prove our faith.

True faith is not without works. We are saved through faith apart from the merit of works yet true faith does not remain apart from the presence of works.

Meaning, works have to be there.


James 2:14-26
New King James Version

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without a]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: normal; position: relative; vertical-align: text-top; top: auto; display: inline;">[a]your works, and I will show you my faith by b]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: normal; position: relative; vertical-align: text-top; top: auto; display: inline;">[b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is c]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: normal; position: relative; vertical-align: text-top; top: auto; display: inline;">[c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made d]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: normal; position: relative; vertical-align: text-top; top: auto; display: inline;">[d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was e]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: normal; position: relative; vertical-align: text-top; top: auto; display: inline;">[e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We all sin so the highlighted part of your post always causes a problem for me.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). We walk by faith and not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7). Anyways, those who think we cannot stop committing mortal sin this side of Heaven needs to believe the following passage below.

full
 
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,726
✟389,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
First, eternal life is through Jesus Christ.

“For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23).

Second, believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation but it is believing in everything He told us to do. If you were to keep reading, John 3:19-21 says,

19 “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” (John 3:19-21).​

Notice verse 20. It says everyone who does evil hates the light. The light is Jesus Christ. This means eternal life is only for those who does not do evil or sin because obviously a person cannot hate Jesus and still be saved.



Again, the condemnation is given to us John 3:19-21. We just talked about that. Plus, in Romans 8:1 it says there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Meaning, if we walk after flesh or sin, we are under the condemnation. Romans 8:1 is a verse that is a part of the faith in believing in our Lord. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).



If you were to read Romans 8:35-39: You will notice that two things are not on the list of things mentioned that cannot separate you from the love of Christ.

#1. You, (and):
#2. Your sin.

You will notice that all the things on the list mentioned in Romans 8:35-39 that cannot separate you from Christ are external things.



Let's read the whole verse.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36).
Notice the bold lettering here. He that believes not the Son shall not see life. Not sure if you caught this. In other words, this is saying that he that believes not what the Son says shall not see life. For a person who does not believe the words of Jesus they are not going to see life. What words of Jesus can they possibly not believe? Oh, take your pick. Many in popular Christianity have told me that the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etc. should not be taken literally, or they no longer apply anymore. But surely they are saying this only because they do not like what He said.



The words “he who hears my word” is in reference to obedience. See the Expanded translation (ESB). In addition, the context tell us this:

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).​

Notice that it says that there is a resurrection of life for those who do good, and there is a resurrection of damnation to those who have done evil. Nothing here about how a believer can do evil or sin and still be saved by having a belief alone on Jesus because they have eternal life that cannot be undone. Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 6:16) (John 14:6).



Again, believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus. Not only do we have to receive Jesus, but we have to receive His words, too. John 12:48 says that if we do not receive his words, those words can judge us on the last day.



What is eating his flesh mean? If you were to skip back to John chapter 4, Jesus says this.

“My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” (John 4:34).​

So if we are not doing the work of the Father (i.e. the will of the Father), we are not going to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).



Notice the context, though. Verse 27 says that the kind of sheep that will have eternal life and not perish are the sheep that hear His voice and they follow Jesus. A believer who justifies sin and thinks they are saved by having a belief alone on Jesus is not following or obeying Jesus.



Not sure how this verse helps you unless you believe Sanctification plays a part in eternal life like I do. For Matthew 25:31-46 is telling us that helping the poor is a part of entering into eternal life.



Yes, this is pretty basic. A believer should know about how salvation can be either in the past tense, present tense, and future tense. However, your confusion is that you think there are no conditions. But the Bible says,

Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,...” (1 Timothy 6:12).​

I am told to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life.

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” (Galatians 6:8).​

We also learn that we need to sow to the Spirit in order to reap life everlasting. If one does not sow to the Spirit, they are not going to reap life everlasting.



This is the second time you quoted Scripture without leaving out the most important part that exposes your wrong belief. Let's read the whole verse and include one more.

14 “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:14).​

Notice verse 14. It says that the reason why they passed from death unto life is because they love the brethren. That's the condition. Before you said there were no conditions. But this is not what the Bible teaches here. In addition, verse 15 says that whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So again. This is another condition. If a Christian hates his brother, they do not have eternal life abiding in him. It's a condition.



And you have to keep reading.

18 “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” (1 John 5:18-20).

First, we are told that whoever is born of God does not sin (i.e. set out to sin or with the mind set to sin as if it was inevitable), but they keep themselves and that wicked one (the devil) touches them not. For the whole world lies in wickedness.

Two, Jesus is said to be eternal life. So eternal life is not yours, but it is a person named Jesus Christ. You have to abide in Christ in order to have life. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
You still have nothing from the Eternal Life passages where anyone of them lose their Eternal Life.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

RickReads

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2020
3,433
1,068
59
richmond
✟64,831.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Exactly. Whosoever will come believing.

I wonder who the elect of God are? Is it all believers, after all they chose Christ, or is it those who God has elected for a special work. What do you think?
.

The elect are those who were chosen by God in His Omniscience. The Bible implies that God made His choices based on willingness and worthiness but His criterea is a mystery. No one can get saved without God`s help so you might say the elect are the ones that God has chosen to help.

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"

Do you get it? Jesus is the One who makes you faultless. It`s not something you did yourself.
 
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
my faith in God depends not on anything I have done.
.

Neither does mine. What I do only shows I have faith, or, it is my faith in action. If I do nothing, am not fruitful, then it shows I have no faith.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
my faith in God depends not on anything I have done, otherwise my faith would be in me and what I have done, and that's not a good idea.
.

Believers are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace (i.e. Jesus Christ). It is why a person who comes to Jesus for the first time can have an assurance of salvation (Without doing any kind of work). Initial and ultimate salvation is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are not ultimately saved by works of righteousness we have done alone without God's mercy (Titus 3:5). For even if a believer were to stumble into sin, do they get clean by doing another work? No. They get clean by confessing their sins to Jesus (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) and they ask Jesus to help them to overcome their sin (or to forsake it) (Matthew 26:41) (Romans 13:14) (John 15:5).

But make no mistake, Scripture is also abundantly clear in that it teaches we are saved by the "work of faith" (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11) after we are saved by God's grace, too. For James says he will show his faith by his works (James 2:18).

However, please understand that these works are not something we can boast in like in Ephesians 2:9 (which are man directed works). The works I am talking about are the “works of God” done through the believer (Philippians 2:13). For we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works [i.e. God directed works] (Ephesians 2:10). For Jesus says we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).

Here is a short list I came up with in the Bible on works (Sanctification) as a part of God's plan of salvation.

  1. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

  2. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

  3. A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

  4. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

  5. Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

  6. We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).

  7. Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).

  8. Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).

  9. Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

  10. Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).

  11. If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).

  12. Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

Anyways, do not take my word for it, but check out these verses for yourself, and you will discover that they mean what they say plainly. Only popular Christianity teaches that we are saved by a belief alone in Jesus.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0