want to talk about OSAS?

Are you an OSAS believer?

  • yes

    Votes: 27 43.5%
  • no

    Votes: 32 51.6%
  • of course

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    62

RickReads

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Mat 5:13 Ye (believers) are the salt of the earth: but if the salt (believers) have lost their savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men.

2Pe 2:21 For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2Pe 2:22 It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1Co 10:12 The backslider (people do backslide) in heart shall be filled with his own ways;

Zep 1:4-6 I will reach out to punish Judah and Jerusalem— nothing will remain of the god Baal; nothing will be remembered of his pagan priests. Not a trace will be found of those who worship stars from their rooftops, or bow down to the god Milcom, while claiming loyalty to me, the LORD. Nothing will remain of anyone who has turned away and rejected me. (Backslidden Judah)


Do you think the backslider has eternal life?

So much for eternal security.

The prodical recieved another chance. Lot`s of Bible passages demonstrate God`s mercy.

i.e. How many times does Jesus command you to forgive your brother? Will God not do the same as He commands? Have you ever fell short in this area? I suspect you needs God`s mercy just like anyone else.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
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“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."

Believers like these who fall away, lose their eternal life.

They are not eternally secure.
.
Where is Eternal Life in that passage ?
 
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1an

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The prodical recieved another chance. Lot`s of Bible passages demonstrate God`s mercy.

i.e. How many times does Jesus command you to forgive your brother? Will God not do the same as He commands? Have you ever fell short in this area? I suspect you needs God`s mercy just like anyone else.
You are talking about believers, but those who abandon their faith are worse off than those who never believed.
 
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RickReads

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You are talking about believers, but those who abandon their faith are worse off than those who never believed.

The prodical abandoned his faith until he finally came to his senses. He was doing everything that you condemn backsliders for.
 
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1an

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The prodical abandoned his faith until he finally came to his senses. He was doing everything that you condemn backsliders for.
We can all come back, that is the Grace of the Good shepherd, but some abandon their faith and never return. These are the the ones who lose the promise of eternal life with Christ.
.
 
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RickReads

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We can all come back, that is the Grace of the Good shepherd, but some abandon their faith and never return. These are the the ones who lose the promise of eternal life with Christ.
.

Such people prove they never were going to gain the inheritence. They are like the Israelites who died in the wilderness. You can`t lose something you never had. They were called but not chosen.
 
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1an

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Show me where it says they had Eternal Life ?
All those who accept Jesus Christ into their heart and life and follow him ALL THE DAYS OF THEIR LIFE have eternal life. It is assured. But as Hebrews tells us, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.
.
 
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1an

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Such people prove they never were going to gain the inheritence. They are like the Israelites who died in the wilderness. You can`t lose something you never had. They were called but not chosen.
The Israilites in the wilderness had the promise of eternal life, but they turned to false gods, they abandoned Yahweh and lost their inheritance that was theirs for the taking.

The whole nation were destined for the promised land, but only two of the original people entered in.

All those who abandon God lose their gift of eternal life.
.
 
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RickReads

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The Israilites in the wilderness had the promise of eternal life, but they turned to false gods, they abandoned Yahweh and lost their inheritance that was theirs for the taking.

All those who abandon God lose their gift of eternal life.
.

The problem is that in order to believe that you have to dispute God`s omniscience.

God`s omniscience makes eternal life based on the election possible.

And forgive me for going off topic, but God`s omniscience is also what makes it possible for the election and freewill to exist at the same time.
 
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1an

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The problem is that in order to believe that you have to dispute God`s omniscience.

God`s omniscience makes eternal life based on the election possible.

And forgive me for going off topic, but God`s omniscience is also what makes it possible for the election and freewill to exist at the same time.
God gives and God takes away. Job 1:21.
.
 
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Danthemailman

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“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."

Believers like these who fall away, lose their eternal life.

They are not eternally secure.
.
See post #398 on page 20.

want to talk about OSAS?
 
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returntosender

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All those who accept Jesus Christ into their heart and life and follow him ALL THE DAYS OF THEIR LIFE have eternal life. It is assured. But as Hebrews tells us, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.
.
I agree with you but I don't think I do with the Hebrews.
Thank you for all your posts. I hope it helps someone out there to make a decision.
 
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Sure it is for there is NO SCRIPTURE stating Eternal life is ever lost. Feel free to join in if you can stay on topic

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

First, eternal life is through Jesus Christ.

“For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23).

Second, believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation but it is believing in everything He told us to do. If you were to keep reading, John 3:19-21 says,

19 “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” (John 3:19-21).​

Notice verse 20. It says everyone who does evil hates the light. The light is Jesus Christ. This means eternal life is only for those who does not do evil or sin because obviously a person cannot hate Jesus and still be saved.

You said:
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Again, the condemnation is given to us John 3:19-21. We just talked about that. Plus, in Romans 8:1 it says there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Meaning, if we walk after flesh or sin, we are under the condemnation. Romans 8:1 is a verse that is a part of the faith in believing in our Lord. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

Those who have Eternal Life are not condemned as Paul says there is no condemnation for those in Christ. Nothing can separate us from Christ.

If you were to read Romans 8:35-39: You will notice that two things are not on the list of things mentioned that cannot separate you from the love of Christ.

#1. You, (and):
#2. Your sin.

You will notice that all the things on the list mentioned in Romans 8:35-39 that cannot separate you from Christ are external things.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

Let's read the whole verse.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36).
Notice the bold lettering here. He that believes not the Son shall not see life. Not sure if you caught this. In other words, this is saying that he that believes not what the Son says shall not see life. For a person who does not believe the words of Jesus they are not going to see life. What words of Jesus can they possibly not believe? Oh, take your pick. Many in popular Christianity have told me that the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etc. should not be taken literally, or they no longer apply anymore. But surely they are saying this only because they do not like what He said.

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

The words “he who hears my word” is in reference to obedience. See the Expanded translation (ESB). In addition, the context tell us this:

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).​

Notice that it says that there is a resurrection of life for those who do good, and there is a resurrection of damnation to those who have done evil. Nothing here about how a believer can do evil or sin and still be saved by having a belief alone on Jesus because they have eternal life that cannot be undone. Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 6:16) (John 14:6).

You said:
John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Again, believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus. Not only do we have to receive Jesus, but we have to receive His words, too. John 12:48 says that if we do not receive his words, those words can judge us on the last day.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

What is eating his flesh mean? If you were to skip back to John chapter 4, Jesus says this.

“My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” (John 4:34).​

So if we are not doing the work of the Father (i.e. the will of the Father), we are not going to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

Notice the context, though. Verse 27 says that the kind of sheep that will have eternal life and not perish are the sheep that hear His voice and they follow Jesus. A believer who justifies sin and thinks they are saved by having a belief alone on Jesus is not following or obeying Jesus.

You said:
Matthew 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Not sure how this verse helps you unless you believe Sanctification plays a part in eternal life like I do. For Matthew 25:31-46 is telling us that helping the poor is a part of entering into eternal life.

Eternal Life is present and future as we read above and below. We have passed out of death into life. Its a done deal, no conditions.

Yes, this is pretty basic. A believer should know about how salvation can be either in the past tense, present tense, and future tense. However, your confusion is that you think there are no conditions. But the Bible says,

Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,...” (1 Timothy 6:12).​

I am told to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life.

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” (Galatians 6:8).​

We also learn that we need to sow to the Spirit in order to reap life everlasting. If one does not sow to the Spirit, they are not going to reap life everlasting.

You said:
1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life,

This is the second time you quoted Scripture without leaving out the most important part that exposes your wrong belief. Let's read the whole verse and include one more.

14 “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:14).​

Notice verse 14. It says that the reason why they passed from death unto life is because they love the brethren. That's the condition. Before you said there were no conditions. But this is not what the Bible teaches here. In addition, verse 15 says that whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So again. This is another condition. If a Christian hates his brother, they do not have eternal life abiding in him. It's a condition.

You said:
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

And you have to keep reading.

18 “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” (1 John 5:18-20).

First, we are told that whoever is born of God does not sin (i.e. set out to sin or with the mind set to sin as if it was inevitable), but they keep themselves and that wicked one (the devil) touches them not. For the whole world lies in wickedness.

Two, Jesus is said to be eternal life. So eternal life is not yours, but it is a person named Jesus Christ. You have to abide in Christ in order to have life. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
 
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No I'm sticking with the topic/ doctrine of Eternal Life with the scriptures about Eternal Life.

Can you stay on topic ?

Well, I am staying on topic. The thread topic is wanting to talk about OSAS, and the question in the poll is: “Are you an OSAS believer?” Seeing, I am not an OSAS believer, and I answered, “no” in the poll, I am obviously going to explain why I believe that way (with Scripture) according to the poll answer I gave.
 
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1an

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Only way to get saved. Works won`t help you.
Correct. Jesus did it all.

Our part is to believe in Him, open our hearts door (Revelation 3:20), and remain faithful all the days of our life. Never allow sin to enter in, because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (1 Peter 5:8) neither should we be like the rich young ruler who placed more importance on the things of earth than the things of God. I know I sound like Jeremiah, but his message was similar for if...

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
.
 
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