Jesus Christ Shed His Blood for Judas

FreeGrace2

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Since when is the truth of historic Christianity a cheap shot?
When did you answer any of my questions with the truth of historic Christianity?

The cheap shot, obviously, was in your response:
"Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit according to paul. Only those whom God saved can believe in the true sense."
 
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FreeGrace2

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“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (NCPB)
What is your problem? What are you trying to insinuate?

What is clear is that you have no answers to questions that you should have, IF IF IF you do have the truth.

Have you forgotten what Peter wrote?

1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Your responses demonstrate that you are NOT prepared to give an answer.

The Greek word for 'hope' here mean 'confident expectation', which is another way to say "strong faith".

Is your faith lacking?
 
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Dave L

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What is your problem? What are you trying to insinuate?

What is clear is that you have no answers to questions that you should have, IF IF IF you do have the truth.

Have you forgotten what Peter wrote?

1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Your responses demonstrate that you are NOT prepared to give an answer.

The Greek word for 'hope' here mean 'confident expectation', which is another way to say "strong faith".

Is your faith lacking?
Do you have an accredited degree in ancient Greek? If so, where from?
 
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Dave L

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When did you answer any of my questions with the truth of historic Christianity?

The cheap shot, obviously, was in your response:
"Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit according to paul. Only those whom God saved can believe in the true sense."
If you reject Total Depravity, (why babied die) you reject the Council of Ephesus 431.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I asked:
"Have you forgotten what Peter wrote?

1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Your responses demonstrate that you are NOT prepared to give an answer.

The Greek word for 'hope' here mean 'confident expectation', which is another way to say "strong faith".

Is your faith lacking?"
Do you have an accredited degree in ancient Greek? If so, where from?
And, once again, no answer from your side.

And, what does your question have to do with my question?

Peter encouraged believers in Jesus Christ to BE PREPARED to GIVE AN ANSWER to everyone who asks you.

And yet, you can't. Or won't, which is probably worse.
 
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FreeGrace2

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If you reject Total Depravity, (why babied die) you reject the Council of Ephesus 431.
Let's examine Eph 4:31 - Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

OK, so who cares what that council came up with? I'm only interested in what the Bible teaches.

What I DO reject is the reformed misunderstanding of total depravity. The notion that unsaved man cannot believe the gospel until regeneration.

That is total bunk. But, if you can muster up some energy, or whatever, and considering 1 Pet 3:15 and being prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you, can you show the truth from Scripture that regeneration precedes faith?

Another non answer will be all I need to know that you aren't prepared in any sense.
 
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Dave L

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Let's examine Eph 4:31 - Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

OK, so who cares what that council came up with? I'm only interested in what the Bible teaches.

What I DO reject is the reformed misunderstanding of total depravity. The notion that unsaved man cannot believe the gospel until regeneration.

That is total bunk. But, if you can muster up some energy, or whatever, and considering 1 Pet 3:15 and being prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you, can you show the truth from Scripture that regeneration precedes faith?

Another non answer will be all I need to know that you aren't prepared in any sense.
Find in the flesh anything that can save.

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (NCPB)

This is all you have to work with. It cannot save.
 
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Dave L

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I asked:
"Have you forgotten what Peter wrote?

1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Your responses demonstrate that you are NOT prepared to give an answer.

The Greek word for 'hope' here mean 'confident expectation', which is another way to say "strong faith".

Is your faith lacking?"

And, once again, no answer from your side.

And, what does your question have to do with my question?

Peter encouraged believers in Jesus Christ to BE PREPARED to GIVE AN ANSWER to everyone who asks you.

And yet, you can't. Or won't, which is probably worse.
I just gave scripture.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Find in the flesh anything that can save.
Of course there is NOTHING in the flesh that can save. Haven't you been reading my posts? That's what total depravity is about. Man cannot save himself.

But, what does that have to do with believing in Christ. It isn't man's faith in Christ that saves, but God Himself who saves believers.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

God was and is pleased to save those who believe. It isn't man's action of believing that saves, as it seems you presume, it's God Himself who saves those who believe.

Once you come to grips with this truth, everything will become much more clear for you.

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (NCPB)

This is all you have to work with. It cannot save.
What do you mean, "all I have to work with"? That doesn't make sense. Again, man cannot save himself. It is God alone who saves. And He saves those who believe.

The Bible SAYS SO.
 
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Dave L

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Of course there is NOTHING in the flesh that can save. Haven't you been reading my posts? That's what total depravity is about. Man cannot save himself.

But, what does that have to do with believing in Christ. It isn't man's faith in Christ that saves, but God Himself who saves believers.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

God was and is pleased to save those who believe. It isn't man's action of believing that saves, as it seems you presume, it's God Himself who saves those who believe.

Once you come to grips with this truth, everything will become much more clear for you.


What do you mean, "all I have to work with"? That doesn't make sense. Again, man cannot save himself. It is God alone who saves. And He saves those who believe.

The Bible SAYS SO.
the flesh only believes in an idol it thinks is Christ.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I asked:
"Have you forgotten what Peter wrote?

1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Your responses demonstrate that you are NOT prepared to give an answer.
I just gave scripture.
All you gave was Gal 5:19-21, which proves that man cannot save himself.

But that's NO answer for the question about proof that regeneration is necessary before faith.

Again, you are NOT PREPARED TO ANSWER any of my questions.
 
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FreeGrace2

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the flesh only believes in an idol it thinks is Christ.
Where do you come up with these silly bromides?

I'd love to see where you came up with your statement from Scripture.

What you CAN'T find in Scripture is any support for your notions.

In fact, Rom 10:9 says that "man believes from the heart". Do you understand what "heart" means in this verse?
 
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Dave L

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I asked:
"Have you forgotten what Peter wrote?

1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Your responses demonstrate that you are NOT prepared to give an answer.

All you gave was Gal 5:19-21, which proves that man cannot save himself.

But that's NO answer for the question about proof that regeneration is necessary before faith.

Again, you are NOT PREPARED TO ANSWER any of my questions.
if people cannot believe in the true Christ until after he saves them, then we agree.
 
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Dave L

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Where do you come up with these silly bromides?

I'd love to see where you came up with your statement from Scripture.

What you CAN'T find in Scripture is any support for your notions.

In fact, Rom 10:9 says that "man believes from the heart". Do you understand what "heart" means in this verse?
The flesh can only worship idols it calls Jesus. It hates God.
 
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renniks

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"And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves. For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table. For the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed!”And they began to question one another, which of them it could be who was going to do this." (Luke 22:14-23)

Note the important words that Jesus uses here, "But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table", which were spoken AFTER Jesus had given Judas the cup representing His blood, and the bread, that represents His death.

Matthew's account has some more details;

"27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (chapter 26)

It is very clear from this, that Judas is also included in the "many" for whom Jesus died. This is also admitted to by John Calvin, where commenting on the same words in Mark's Gospel (14:24), says;

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse."

It is also very interesting to read what two reformed commentators say on the passage in Luke's Gospel:

Matthew Henry,

"By placing this after the institution of the Lord’s supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord’s supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup; for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table."

John Gill

"From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over"

If, as some argue, that Jesus Christ did not shed His blood for anyone who has gone to hell, then this passage in Luke is incorrect, as it very clearly says that Jesus testifies that He DID shed His blood for Judas, who is called in the Bible, "the son of destruction". Note what Jesus says on the fate of Judas:

"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled" (John 17:12)

Also, we read of Judas in Acts 1:25, "to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”

Peter in his Second Epistle also says, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction" (2:1). Which shows that there are those for whom Jesus shed His blood, that have ended up in eternal punishment.

It is important to note, that had Jesus not wished to include Judas in His death on the cross, then He would have waited for Judas to have left the room, which was not much later, and then said these words. However, Jesus, Who, as God Incarnate, knowing full well that Judas was about to betray Him, and that Judas would not be going to heaven for his treachery, made sure that Judas was not only present, but actually did take the bread and wine, that represent Jesus' death on the cross. Moreover, Jesus speaks the same words recorded above, in the hearing of Judas.
Thank you, very helpful and informative. Jesus died for all...
 
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FreeGrace2

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if people cannot believe in the true Christ until after he saves them, then we agree.
How an I agree with your opinions, since you haven't yet shown me any Scripture that supports your opinions?

How can an unbeliever be "saved", since the Bible is very clear that salvation is THROUGH FAITH, as Eph 2:8 clearlly says?

But again, you won't answer any of my questions, because you haven't taken Peter's advice and you aren't prepared to give an answer. 1 Pet 3:15
 
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FreeGrace2

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The flesh can only worship idols it calls Jesus. It hates God.
Then explain Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

But you aren't prepared to give an answer, are you?

This verse plainly says indicates that those who seek Him are rewarded.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Jesus died for many. If he died for all even Judas would be saved.
The fallacy here is thinking that Christ's death saves. If that were true, there wouldn't be any need for all the verses about salvation by faith.

They would, instead, say you are saved by His death. But there are no verses that say that.

And, again, you just have no answers, because you are unprepared to give answers.

You should listen to Peter. 1 Peter 3:15

And there are many verses that say that Jesus died for everyone.

2 Cor 5:14,15
1 Tim 2:3-6
Titus 2:11
1 John 2:2

And none of the verses say "all kinds of". They say "all". As in everyone.
 
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renniks

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Jesus died for many. If he died for all even Judas would be saved.
1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
 
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