Is Sabbath a shadow?

Saint Steven said:

How do you destroy the prophets? How do you fulfill the prophets? (doesn't make sense) Unless... you understand.

After his resurrection, Jesus explained what he meant in Matthew 5:17.
The reference was to the Books of the Law, and the Books of the Prophets, and the Psalms. (which also contained prophecies to be fulfilled)

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

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So when you fulfill the speed limit it does not apply to the driver behind you..lol

I expect you fulfilled your obligations as a citizen yesterday...no need to do it today...LOL

Bob S said:

I could not agree more. The Israelites never found the REST yet they tried to observe the seventh day Sabbath. It is so interesting that God never required any other nation to be seventh day Sabbath observant, but He so freely has told us to come unto Him and find rest. His invitation is today, we don't have to wait to find rest on the seventh day.

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rested all day yesterday did ya...all day today too yes?

His sabbatismos people find in Him a literal full day of rest...His Sabbath seventh day made Holy and by the Lord of the Sabbath...

Bob S said:

Hold on there partner not so fast, now you have to re-interpret verse 25 to conclude all your findings like you did with verse 24. If, in fact, all that the "facts" you have assembled why does Paul go on in verse 25 to tell us the Jews are no longer under the Law?
24 Wherefore the law is was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Probably best to look beyond just the one verse next time LGW.

Concerning Rom 3:31 might I refer you to the verses preceding verse 31? I glean from those verses that gentiles were never under the law now does it, yet we are sinners. Now how could that be LGW? Verse 31 is not telling us we are under the law. If it were so then that one verse would undermine all the previous verses. You use that one verse as a proof text to prove your belief and come to find out it is like many verses used to only undermine the message Paul is so elegantly teaching us. Gentiles are and never have been under the laws of the Sinai covenant. To try to teach that somehow we are now under it because Paul uses the word "establish" is a false teaching and trying to convince us otherwise should end immediately.

Thanks for clarifying your own study and your own composition. Do you study each verse you use to prove your point because when I open those proof verses I find that many of them have no meaning to the subject.

Now as to the word "was" used in Gal 3. Seems like even the translation of "was" can be cherry picked. And of course you used the one that had leaning to the word "is". The one I used doesn't lean in that direction. Most of the Bible translations do not lean to the word "is" either. I wonder why some people think their meaning of certain words in the Bible are so much better than the scholars that did the translating? Do some people believe we cannot trust any Bibles because of faulty translations. How do you translate verse 25 to agree with your translation of verse 24?

#1096 γίνομαι ginomai {ghin'-om-ahee}

a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb;
TDNT - 1:681,117; v

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
2a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
3a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished
4a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made

24 Wherefore the law is was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Was = finished. Was = to become. Once again when you use the word "is" in verse 24 you negate verse 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

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Hopefully ya learned 2+2=4 in school yes?

but now that you are graduated and no longer under a schoolmaster suddenly 2+2=5 or the color Red? LOL

Saint Steven said:

This is a pretty blatant claim that those who do not observe the Sabbath are damned to hell. Thus inferring that salvation is by the works of the law. Yet you all seem to claim that salvation is NOT by works. Explain.

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salvation is of Him Lord of the Sabbath

How to maintain it is WHY the Law...and the need of His grace

Saint Steven said:

To whom was it written? (the Israelites in the wilderness)

Deuteronomy 5:1-3
Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

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the bride of the Lord of the Sabbath was already full of those NOT of Jacob when we received His living oracles at Sinai

is why the Sabbath includes them “strangers with thy gates”...the only living oracle to be that specific and inclusive...the irony you reject this gift which was made by the Lord of the Sabbath and confirmed by Him as given to man...not just Isreal its Jews...

Saint Steven said:

Grace and the law; like oil and water. (don't mix)

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

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LOL...the Law IS GRACE to those that accept it...

like the Sabbath given to Adam unearned as he did not work six days...but given to him BEFORE he sweat from his brow six days a week

KNOWING what to do to please Him IS GRACE

you are FAR from from David who delights in the Law...as did Paul

the Law is grace which enshrines our rights to adoption and inheritance which His death now guarantees

the law is grace as it identifies His who are SAVED BY HIM and spares them from His coming wrath at those who HATE Him and HIS WAYS


IS WHY here are they that KEEP the Law...and have the faith not IN but OF...knowing what that is IS GRACE...

do this and live...JUST AS HE DID

Saint Steven said:

Well, the majority of the church meets on the first day of the week.

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the way is narrow for a reason...it’s not a popularity contest

Tell me how you think that came to be.

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peer pressure is real

they WANTED to worship Him so made a golden calf...rinse and repeat...and that is man his traditions

Then I will better understand your perspective on the matter. I have no interest in arguing about Ignatius quotes.

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more than his quotes

Catholic Church Admits They Made the Change | Sabbath Truth

If you claim that the RCC changed the Sabbath to Sunday, where does that leave us? Do you side with the SDA who claim that anyone who doesn't observe the seventh day Sabbath is hell-bound?

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SDAs did not invent the Sabbath which remains for His people

Saint Steven said:

This is a reminder of the rules. From the Statement of Purpose of this forum:

Although the Law of God is pleasing to a believer it is not a necessary requirement for salvation. (Psalms 119:174; Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:18)

We've had some issues with this lately. Please remember that you cannot promote the idea that the Law must be kept in order to attain salvation.

Source: ALL READ - Law -based salvation

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right...the Law is an owner’s manual for those who inherited salvation...to maintain and maximize what they inherited

Bob S said:

No, verse 25 may not say the law is abolished, but verse 19 is a different story. 19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.

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yes yes...and then that child who was promised destroyed the very Law He gave when not a child...Certainly NOT!

faith does NOT make void His living oracles describing Him His ways His kingdom His people...

ironic this Law was WHY He became a child for His children...

pasifika said:

Great understanding of scriptures...a foundation build on the rock remains strong..

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Built on the very sands heads are stuck in...more like

Law IS grace is why David AND Paul delighted in it...without which Paul even says he would NOT have known his need OF Him the Lord of the Sabbath’s salvation...its rest...with its sabbatismos

pasifika said:

Maybe because the 7th day commandment Never mentioned to the church ( Jews & Gentiles) as a day to keep...

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Ironic the SABBATH is the only commandment which specifically includes the strangers within thy gates...given to His bride at Sinai when THIS ekklesia was already full of those NOT of Jacob

which IS WHY the Lord of the Sabbath Who gave His people a sabbatismos confirmed it was given to MAN...and NOT to just to Israel its Jews...

and for His people it remains...For His bride...known as Israel both Jew and Gentile...neat eh?

pasifika said:

Hello LGW, the Gentiles were never part of the old covenant. The whole world were Not in Sinai when God made this covenant Only children of Israel...

Ephesians 2:11,12...Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised “ by those ( Israel) who called themselves circumcision...remember that at that time you (Gentiles) were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenant of the promise, without hope and without God in the world....

this to give you an idea of Who God made this covenant with..

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now a good time to remember this too?

Leviticus 19:34
Verse Concepts
The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.

Exodus 12:49
Verse Concepts
The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.”

Leviticus 24:22
Verse Concepts
There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the Lord your God.’”

Numbers 9:14
Verse Concepts
If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the Lord, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land.’”


Numbers 15:14
Verse Concepts
If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the Lord, just as you do so he shall do.

Numbers 15:15
Verse Concepts
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the Lord.

Numbers 15:16
Verse Concepts
There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”

Numbers 15:29
Verse Concepts
You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them.

Deuteronomy 1:16
Verse Concepts
“Then I charged your judges at that time, saying, ‘Hear the cases between your fellow countrymen, and judge righteously between a man and his fellow countryman, or the alien who is with him.

Deuteronomy 24:14
Verse Concepts
“You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

Leviticus 18:26
Verse Concepts
But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you

Exodus 12:19
Verse Concepts
Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land.

Exodus 20:10
Verse Concepts
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Deuteronomy 5:14
Verse Concepts
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

Leviticus 16:29
Verse Concepts
“This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;

Leviticus 17:8
Verse Concepts
“Then you shall say to them, ‘Any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,


Leviticus 17:10
Verse Concepts
‘And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 22:18
“Speak to Aaron and to his sons and to all the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘Any man of the house of Israel or of the aliens in Israel who presents his offering, whether it is any of their votive or any of their freewill offerings, which they present to the Lord for a burnt offering—

Leviticus 17:13
Verse Concepts
So when any man from the sons of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, in hunting catches a beast or a bird which may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth.

Leviticus 24:16
Verse Concepts
Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

Numbers 15:26
So all the congregation of the sons of Israel will be forgiven, with the alien who sojourns among them, for it happened to all the people through error.

Ezekiel 47:21-23 gives them land promised...also the hope of Israel

pasifika said:

Again Sabbath DOES NOT MEANS 7th Day...it means Rest

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rest all day on a specific day...one made Holy...

...God Rested on the 7th Day Not You...Our Rest is at the day called “ Today”...

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today are you not to remember you were made in His image to do as He did and not your will but His on earth as it is in heaven...To be more like Him Who gave you the Sabbath...not just da Jews

where does it say the church is to keep the 7th Day? You didn’t quote any specific verses...

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Acts 15:21 James confirms they would keep hearing the rest of Moses every Sabbath

duh...as He instructed His disciples to go to ALL and to teach them to observe ALL His commandments not just 9/10ths...

pasifika said:

If you read it again and again it gives you an idea of what Paul is trying to say..Gentiles by birth were excluded from covenant or citizenship in Israel...that is really clear!

BUT NOW through Christ Jesus We ( Gentiles) who are far off are made close through the blood of Christ...Ephesians 2:13..

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to what? keep doing our far off foreigner ways? Or to live AS He did JUST AS...and to love others JUST AS He loved us...no more foreigner stuff like Sunday Hams

So was the Abraham covenant or Sinai covenant BEFORE or AFTER THE BLOOD OF CHRIST? ( Crucifixion)..
Did Christ shed His Blood Before the old covenant OR After?

something to think about...

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When was this new covenant taught and demonstrated...

but by Him His teaching and life an example for us to follow...

He then christened this new covenant to a room full of Jews signing it with His blood and sealing it with His death...this last will and testament can NOT be changed once the TESTATOR dies and puts it into effect... Is why for 40 days which is 5 weekends NOTHING was recorded changed

is why they even kept annual sabbaths Pentecost and from unclean meats...

think on these things...they are good pure and holy

pasifika said:

My point is for you to stop promoting old covenant commandments to the church... where the 4th command is included...

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so He lied when He said it was a perpetual sign of His people?

And here are they that keep 9/10ths of Yah’s commandments and have the 9/10ths faith OF Yahushua?

pasifika said:

Yes the law just showed us that we are evil and deserve God's wrath...BUT THE LAW DOES NOT CHANGE YOUR WAYS...you NEED THE SPIRIT...A Gift!

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which like the Sabbath is grace received...you must accept His Spirit to lead you into the keeping if His ways...regenerating you to be more like Him not your foreigner ways...as loving JUST AS He loves fulfills the Law...to establish it which our faith does NOT make void to lead other to Him and His Ways after they accept they too are saved by Him and receive His gifts...grace, salvation, His Spirit, and rest a sabbatismos one which remains for His people...

pasifika said:

Aren't we are warn to CHANGE our ways otherwise we face God's fury? So what is the point of you promoting a law which doesn't do me or others that read it any good? If it doesn't change a sinner to be Righteous then?

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LOL...Why should you change if you reject the warning to?

What He did is also rejected...but was meant to cause those to appreciate what He did and thus want to change...accept Him AND His ways to be more like Him less like their foreigner ways

Accepting Him by faith compels you keep His commandments and they are not burdensome...but seems like you reject His yoke cuz what He dun ain’t moving ya...

your choice to rather accept Jewish false witness that “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered”

but you were warned to change...

claim to abide in Him means you live as He did...JUST AS

clefty said:

yes yes...and then that child who was promised destroyed the very Law He gave when not a child...Certainly NOT!

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Yes, the law He gave to one nation who Jeremiah in Jer 31:32 said: They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the Lord. A covenant is only as good as the parties it is made. In the case of the Sinai covenant "they" meant Israel. The covenant ended at Calvary where Jesus ratified the new and better covenant with His own blood.

faith does NOT make void His living oracles describing Him His ways His kingdom His people...ironic this Law was WHY He became a child for His children...

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You will have to take that up with Jeremiah my friend. The following is as simple as the nose on my face clefty. Jer 31:31 “The day is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 32 This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the Lord.

Israel and Judah broke the covenant given at Sinai, but God in His Mercy had a plan that was originated before the foundation of the Earth to redeem all mankind. Jesus came to this Earth and proclaimed this new covenant that was not to be like the one given at Sinai.

I guess you will have to argue with the prophet Jeremiah as to why he would tell us the covenant Jesus brought with Him was different than the Sinai covenant. Someone from your side of the debate recently said that the only laws that changed were the laws concerning the Levites. Well if that is true then yes the covenant Jesus ratified with His own blood "destroyed" that part of what you believe was eternal.

Paul didn't say the laws concerning the Levite priesthood, he wrote: "the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised." That is not saying part of the law now is it. Your argument is not with me my friend, it is with Paul who wrote that the law was designed to last only until the coming of Jesus.

imge said:

Yes, we are to change our ways and it's a good point. I am not sure why you don't feel under the law of God. Do you believe Jesus is coming back? If so, please read these scriptures in the last book of the Bible before the second coming....

Revelations
12:17 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(why is the devil enraged by keeping God's commandments, if we are not under the law)

Revelations 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. The commandments of God are found in Exodus 20 and it includes the 4th commandment that asked us to Remember (opposite of forget) His Holy day- seventh day Sabbath

Gods promise to us
Revelations
22 12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

So you see, this is not our testimony, its the word of God. He is coming back and by grace is going to save us, but three times in this chapter alone it says we are under the law of God.

God Bless

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What makes you think Revelation 14 is about the 10 commandments? Old covenant is No longer “obsolete”.

clefty said:

LOL...Why should you change if you reject the warning to?

What He did is also rejected...but was meant to cause those to appreciate what He did and thus want to change...accept Him AND His ways to be more like Him less like their foreigner ways

Accepting Him by faith compels you keep His commandments and they are not burdensome...but seems like you reject His yoke cuz what He dun ain’t moving ya...

your choice to rather accept Jewish false witness that “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered”

but you were warned to change...

claim to abide in Him means you live as He did...JUST AS

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You sound more like someone who think you can change your evil ways without God first enable you to change...by nature we are evil that’s the bottom line...as Paul puts it “ there is nothing good dwell within me (sinful nature) and we all have that sinful Nature the results of sin living in us...
The law ( Old covenant) has no effect on that evil nature we have...the law just revealed to us that we are sinners or evil...