Do Aliens Exist?

Shemjaza · Oct 26, 2020

ChristServant said:
I think one of the best sources of information I've found on the subject of whether or not there is life on other planets is in this youtube link below from a Christian in the UK;

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.

Peace be with all those in the body of Christ

I don't want to invest in an hour long video. Can you explain how they invalidate points made in this thread?

Given the billions, upon billions of planets I think the probability arguments seem a little limited.

Dan1988 · Oct 26, 2020

Speedwell said:
True, but what has that to do with what you believe about life on other planets?

It has everything to do with "life on other planets" Jesus created all life and every speck of dust in the universe.
So if there was life on other planets, the One who created everything would have told us. It's self evident that He never created life anywhere except for heaven and earth.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Oct 26, 2020

Shemjaza said:
You'd end up with successor civilisations given the time frame.

Possibly, but the timescale seems optimistic.

The reason you'd see it from outside a galaxy is the visible light would cut off and you'd just see the vast infrared glow of waste heat from the trillions of habitats, collectors and satellites.

It seems to me more likely that they'd settle on suitable planets or 'terraform' (xenoform?) them. Satellites would mainly orbit planets. Dyson spheres and the like are highly speculative, and space-going habitats of the size or number your scenario suggests seem equally so.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just very sceptical that life, even on a galactic scale, would distort the galaxy's light the way you describe; I think the scale is just too big for such a ubiquitous level of technological development in so many star systems all at the 'same time' (pace relativity). I'll grant there could be spectroscopic evidence of life.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Oct 26, 2020

Dan1988 said:
... if there was life on other planets, the One who created everything would have told us.

What makes you think so, when He didn't tell us about the trillions of other planets in our galaxy and the billions of other galaxies with their own trillions of planets?

For all you know He could have quintillions of life experiments running on planets throughout the universe. Why should He tell us? - after all, He does move in mysterious ways...

Speedwell · Oct 26, 2020

Dan1988 said:
It has everything to do with "life on other planets" Jesus created all life and every speck of dust in the universe.
So if there was life on other planets, the One who created everything would have told us. It's self evident that He never created life anywhere except for heaven and earth.

But He didn't necessarily tell us everything. Even John says so:

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

durangodawood · Oct 26, 2020

coffee4u said:
No, there are only demons posing as aliens.

How do you know this?

durangodawood · Oct 26, 2020

Dan1988 said:
It has everything to do with "life on other planets" Jesus created all life and every speck of dust in the universe.
So if there was life on other planets, the One who created everything would have told us. It's self evident that He never created life anywhere except for heaven and earth.

That earlier John quote refutes this, dont you think?

It literally says Jesus did loads of things he hasnt told us about.

Shemjaza · Oct 26, 2020

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Possibly, but the timescale seems optimistic.

It seems to me more likely that they'd settle on suitable planets or 'terraform' (xenoform?) them. Satellites would mainly orbit planets. Dyson spheres and the like are highly speculative, and space-going habitats of the size or number your scenario suggests seem equally so.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just very sceptical that life, even on a galactic scale, would distort the galaxy's light the way you describe; I think the scale is just too big for such a ubiquitous level of technological development in so many star systems all at the 'same time' (pace relativity). I'll grant there could be spectroscopic evidence of life.

I was being optimistic about long term survival prospects of an advanced technological species... I'm not really sure what extinction looks like in that context.

But space station habitats are far easier and quicker technologically then terraforming alien worlds, and you can make orders of magnitudes more living space with the materials and resources.

This can lead to the huge upper population for a star of trillions and trillions. Then all we need is a fraction of a fraction interested in colonisation and exploration and we can quickly fill the galaxy.

The light blocked by space stations isn't some Kardashev 3 mega machine, it's just urban sprawl for an interstellar species.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Oct 26, 2020

Shemjaza said:
I was being optimistic about long term survival prospects of an advanced technological species... I'm not really sure what extinction looks like in that context.

But space station habitats are far easier and quicker technologically then terraforming alien worlds, and you can make orders of magnitudes more living space with the materials and resources.

This can lead to the huge upper population for a star of trillions and trillions. Then all we need is a fraction of a fraction interested in colonisation and exploration and we can quickly fill the galaxy.

The light blocked by space stations isn't some Kardashev 3 mega machine, it's just urban sprawl for an interstellar species.

OK, well maybe we'll find out one day.

SelfSim · Oct 26, 2020

Shemjaza said:
I disagree.

Even limiting the idea of life being based on the same principles as life on Earth it's reasonable to assume the conditions that allowed the chemistry of early life to occur would happen many, many, many times across the universe.

'Limiting the idea of life being based on the same principles as life on Earth' without knowing in precise detail what those (numerous) physically principled conditions actually were, is an untested and artificial assumption, which then leads you to conclude that 'the conditions that allowed the chemistry of early life to occur would happen many, many, many times across the universe'.
There are no objective reasons for assuming what led to Earth's instance of life, necessarily represents a random sample taken from the parent population (ie: the universe) ..

These are the valid reasons for why Inkfinger's statement in post #216 is empty and without objective meaning.

SelfSim · Oct 26, 2020

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
.. For all you know He could have quintillions of life experiments running on planets throughout the universe. Why should He tell us? - after all, He does move in mysterious ways...

Why would he need to conduct life experiments?

Strathos · Oct 26, 2020

SelfSim said:
Why would he need to conduct life experiments?

Why not?

FrumiousBandersnatch · Oct 26, 2020

SelfSim said:
Why would he need to conduct life experiments?

I don't know - why did he supposedly create the Earth and humans? you'd think a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, eternal entity wouldn't need for anything, let alone infinitely inferior creatures to worship it, but - despite him knowing how it would all turn out - here we are; on a single, relatively tiny planet in an unimaginably vast universe. Why make billions of galaxies and trillions of stars if you only need one? Doesn't make sense - oh wait, I got it - GWIMW, right?

SelfSim · Oct 26, 2020

Strathos said:
Why not?

Such a question (again) leads to meaninglessness .. why even bother going in that direction?

coffee4u · Oct 26, 2020

durangodawood said:
How do you know this?

Because the Bible says that God created humans and angels. Any other intelligent 'creature' outside of this is a deception. The Bible says that some angels fell and became known as demons.

Revelation 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan and his angels aim to deceive and can change how they look.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

We are told to keep watch and be ready for whatever devious things or signs the devil will use. Not that we are told exactly what thet will be, so we need to keep an open mind and be watchful. If aliens ever do land they will be demons who will look like 'angels of light' i.e world saviours.

Ephesians 6:11-12
Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Matthew 24:24

For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

Revelation 16:14
for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.

There will be some kind of mass deception before the war of God. Will it be aliens? Maybe maybe not. If you don't believe the Bible to be God's word then you will no doubt ignore all of what I have said, this is for scripture believers. All of whom should be sceptical, very sceptical of anything that seems miraculous that does not line up with God's word.

The fact that there are aliens cults around is another sign that the movement to believe in them is from Satan. If something causes a religion there is something spiritual connected to it. Since there are only two sides, God and his angels and Satan and his demons, anything spiritual needs decernment.

Strathos · Oct 26, 2020

The problem is that you're assuming that individual egos are the only type of intelligence possible.

durangodawood · Oct 26, 2020

coffee4u said:
. Any other intelligent 'creature' outside of this is a deception...

In your whole post, and I did read all of it (thanks for the considered reply) I didn't find anything to definitively back that up.

I end up going back to that quote that It would take countless books to document the deeds and creations of Jesus that we don't know about. That seems to leave the door open for all sorts of amazing things not revealed in the Bible.

jamesbond007 · Oct 27, 2020

Shemjaza said:
Fermi paradox only functions if you think there is sufficient justification for the development of alien life we could detect in some way.

What we can definitively assert that civilisations that engulf stars with Dyson swarms and fill their entire galaxies don't appear to happen in the ancient universe.

The universe is just too big for us to easily detect anything else.

It doesn't really matter how enormous is the universe. It is the glory of God that we are witnessing. However, there won't be any aliens because God didn't create any. If there was, then it would cause Christians trouble.

Anyway, the science of atheism wants to do that and show there are aliens. It's one reason why they want to find any evidence of life. Also, they want to find another planet like ours so we can colonize it. However, Earth is special so there won't be another place like it, i.e. the fine tuning facts. It's really the only place we will be able to live until there is some gigantic catastrophe.

I realize your faith in no God or gods and the atheist science of evolution won't allow you to think this way. The atheist scientists want to look under the ice on Europa or below the surface of Mars as there is ice there. They want to find any evidence of life. Even a microbe. However, there won't be any living organism or evidence found.

The Drake Equation shows that there should've been life discovered already. There should be other intelligent alien life. So other scientists have come up with a Great Filter theory in that there were alien civilizations like us or more advanced than us, but something wiped them out and we're the only ones that survived. If whatever happened is behind us, then there isn't a problem but it could be ahead of us.

coffee4u · Oct 27, 2020

Strathos said:
The problem is that you're assuming that individual egos are the only type of intelligence possible.

I am talking about ET's landing on the earth. If this ever happens It will be demonic.
As to lower life forms on other planets, I doubt that 99.9% Because why would God do that when he already made 1 cell life forms here.

durangodawood said:
In your whole post, and I did read all of it (thanks for the considered reply) I didn't find anything to definitively back that up.

I end up going back to that quote that It would take countless books to document the deeds and creations of Jesus that we don't know about. That seems to leave the door open for all sorts of amazing things not revealed in the Bible.

Like I said the Bible doesn't say "Watch out for aliens" It just says that there will be deception and lieing signs and wonders and as such its up to us to be on our gaurd against such things. To test the spirits.

Test the Spirits
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

Shemjaza · Oct 27, 2020

jamesbond007 said:
It doesn't really matter how enormous is the universe. It is the glory of God that we are witnessing. However, there won't be any aliens because God didn't create any. If there was, then it would cause Christians trouble.

Anyway, the science of atheism wants to do that and show there are aliens. It's one reason why they want to find any evidence of life. Also, they want to find another planet like ours so we can colonize it. However, Earth is special so there won't be another place like it, i.e. the fine tuning facts. It's really the only place we will be able to live until there is some gigantic catastrophe.

I realize your faith in no God or gods and the atheist science of evolution won't allow you to think this way. The atheist scientists want to look under the ice on Europa or below the surface of Mars as there is ice there. They want to find any evidence of life. Even a microbe. However, there won't be any living organism or evidence found.

The Drake Equation shows that there should've been life discovered already. There should be other intelligent alien life. So other scientists have come up with a Great Filter theory in that there were alien civilizations like us or more advanced than us, but something wiped them out and we're the only ones that survived. If whatever happened is behind us, then there isn't a problem but it could be ahead of us.

Just repeating yourself asserting that you are right and making up falsehoods about me isn't convincing.

There is no logical way for us to colonise another Earth like planet. In fact just having the technology required to do so totally removes the need.

People want to explore the universe to find alien life out of a sense of discovery and wonder.

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