Understanding the Scriptures

DarylFawcett · Oct 19, 2020

I read the following this morning and thought I would also post it here for possible discussion:

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures. Luke24:45.

The sayings of Christ are to be valued, not merely in accordance with the measure of the understanding of those who hear; they are to be considered in the important bearing that Christ Himself attaches to them.

He took the old truths, of which He Himself was the originator, and placed them before His hearers in heaven's own light. How different was their representation. What a flood of meaning and brightness and spirituality was brought in by their explanation.

After His resurrection Christ opened the understanding of His followers, that they might understand the Scriptures. Everything had been transformed by the working of the arts of Satan. Truth was covered up by the rubbish of error, and hidden from finite sight.

When Christ referred to His humiliation, rejection, and crucifixion, the disciples could not take in His meaning. It had been a part of their education to expect Christ to set up a temporal kingdom, and when He spoke of His sufferings they could not understand His words. . . .

Christ had many truths to give to His disciples of which He could not speak, because they did not advance with the light that was flashed upon the Levitical laws and the sacrificial offerings. They did not embrace the light, advance with the light, and follow on to still greater brightness as Providence should lead the way.

And for the same reason Christ's disciples today do not comprehend important matters of truth. So dull has been the comprehension of even those who teach the truth to others that many things cannot be opened to them until they reach heaven. It ought not to be so.
But as minds become narrow, they think they know it all, and set one stake after another in points of truths of which they have only a glimpse. People close their minds as though there were no more for them to learn, and should the Lord attempt to lead them on they would not take up with the increased light. They cling to the spot where they think they see a glimmer of light, when it is only a link in the living chain of truths and promises to be studied. . . .

The development of truth will be the reward to the humble-hearted seeker who will fear God and walk with Him. The truth that the mind grasps as truth is capable of constant expansion and new development. . . .As the mind grasps it in its preciousness, it becomes elevated, ennobled, and sanctified.

BobRyan · Oct 19, 2020

Exegesis is a big part of understanding the scriptures - because it tends to remove a lot of subjective bias where a person goes to the Bible and tries to get it to say what they wish it would say.

But if you do it carefully then it is much easier to give a clear understanding of the text to someone that is not already in your own denomination.

Of course everyone has free will and can reject a clear understanding of the text if they wish - Jesus also faced that same problem when explaining Bible truths to others.

Given that God is the author of scripture - then it has an infinite depth to it - but that is no excuse for letting bias/preference/hand-waiving get in the way of understanding the basics. Which is a human tendency and exegesis is helpful in moderating that limiting practice.

In the ocean everything is "wet". In our sinful human nature - everything is bent toward what is called "confirmation bias". If left in that state - no one would ever advance/change discover errors in their prior beliefs. Two things that work against that flawed form of "confirmation bias" is the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) and the objective practice of "exegesis" when interpreting the text.

I love the protestant principle of "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice.

DarylFawcett · Oct 25, 2020

Any further thoughts regarding this?

BobRyan · Oct 25, 2020

Here is an example.

We believe that immortality is granted at the 2nd coming and that the soul is in a dormant state at death as we see in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

However in enthusiasm for making that case some people go a bit too far and have come up with an extra-biblical illustration "box and the nails".

We hear that illustration a lot, but it is not from the Bible and it runs directly across the teaching of Matthew 10:28. So taking the "closed mind" illustration that you pointed out for us in one of your paragraphs where there is "no correction, nothing new" to be learned then when confronted with Matt 10:28 the "solution" could be "just ignore that text".

And the problems with that sort of "solution" are myriad .

Gary K · Oct 25, 2020

If we are going to truly understand scripture is it not our first priority to understand the purpose of scripture? Why was it given? What should be our goal in searching scripture?

BobRyan · Oct 25, 2020

Gary K said:
If we are going to truly understand scripture is it not our first priority to understand the purpose of scripture? Why was it given? What should be our goal in searching scripture?

"Man shall not live by bread alone - but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God" Matt 4.

It is "The Word of God" Mark 7:6-13 where the writers are inspired by the Holy Spirit and "speak from God" 2 Peter 1:21

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - - were so"

Gary K · Oct 25, 2020

BobRyan said:
"Man shall not live by break alone - but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God" Matt 4.

It is "The Word of God" Mark 7:6-13 where the writers are inspired by the Holy Spirit and "speak from God" 2 Peter 1:21

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - - were so"

Those are good reasons to search the scriptures, but they don't really answer the question, for me, as to why scripture was given. Your list of scriptures show us that scripture is the place to learn about God, but don't really address knowing Him directly.

To me the reason scripture was given was so that we might actually know God.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

What is the reason for the new covenant?

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

How important is John 17:3?

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

To me, that we might truly know God why we were given the Bible. Nothing else dispels the fog and mists of error and disinformation about who God is.

BobRyan · Oct 25, 2020

BobRyan said:
"Man shall not live by bread alone - but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God" Matt 4.

It is "The Word of God" Mark 7:6-13 where the writers are inspired by the Holy Spirit and "speak from God" 2 Peter 1:21

BobRyan said:
Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - - were so"

Gary K said:
To me, that we might truly know God why we were given the Bible. Nothing else dispels the fog and mists of error and disinformation about who God is.

While I do agree with your statement - I don't see that as "either or" but "both and"

Gary K · Oct 25, 2020

BobRyan said:
While I do agree with your statement - I don't see that as "either or" but "both and"

I see your post more as, why the Bible is trustworthy rather than why it was given. It was given so that we might know God and the truth who He is. For the truth about who He is leads us to love Him. If we didn't know that He is completely trustworthy who would trust Him? If we couldn't test His promises how could we learn He is faithful? Like Jesus said, knowing God and Jesus is life eternal. He didn't say, knowing theology is life eternal. We must know the person.

I can have every piece of theology correct and still not know Him and as Jesus says He will say depart from me I never knew you. So it seems to me that knowing God is by far the most important reason that the scriptures were given. But then that is how I have always studied the Bible. Not for the intellectual knowledge of theology, but for that accurate picture of who God is so that I may know Him.

BibleDisciple · Nov 12, 2020

In Old Testament times, people would visit the prophets to hear the word of the LORD. Now we have God's word as the Holy scriptures. Without them, all we would have is man-made philosophies, like the eastern religions.

Never underestimate the importance of the Ten Commandments and the happiness they bring. They tell us what the being who designed humans wants us to do to live full, happy lives. Then add to that the sacrifice of Jesus and remission of sins and eternal life.

The scriptures contain all of these things. The scriptures are our foundation.

EastCoastRemnant · Dec 4, 2020

The purpose of scripture is to reveal truth...the truth of who God is, what He has done for us through His Son and the blessings and cursings of those that accept or reject it.

DarylFawcett · Dec 14, 2020

Anybody who knows how to read can read the Scriptures, but when it comes to understanding the Scriptures that they are able to read, that is another thing altogether.

Why is that?

Bob S · Feb 22, 2021

Hi Daryl, Your question has made my mind whorl. For years I allowed the teachings the church provided to determine my understanding. I was told that my church was the true church and I could trust the church's understanding of scripture. If I studied a subject and concluded differently than what the church taught I was not free to express my conclusion. ~~The Holy Spirit didn't play any role in my beliefs.~~ Well, that was not really true. I was being prodded by the Holy Spirit, but because of my preconceived beliefs I thought I not dare change.

I started to see little cracks in the foundation of the church I believed was the true church which caused me to start studying on my own which then caused me to finally separate from my church. I no longer use all the teachings of the church as my guide. I started allowing the Holy Spirit to guide my study and yes, some of my former beliefs have changed. All this has been a rewarding experience. I have much more to learn and each day studying with my friend, the Holy Spirit, is an exciting experience.

The plan of salvation is so simple and we sometimes make it so hard. We have so many promises directly from Jesus and if we claim them we become the happiest people on Earth. Jesus makes our burden light. Jn 3:16, Jn 5:24 and 1Jn 3:19-24 are great promises, a good place to start our studies.

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2021

Bob S said:
Hi Daryl, Your question has made my mind whorl. For years I allowed the teachings the church provided to determine my understanding. I was told that my church was the true church and I could trust the church's understanding of scripture.

Since you have since then posted that you consider yourself to be ex-SDA I assume that you no longer hold those views - but even in that case the sola scriptura model that the SDA denomination strongly endorses should still be of help to you.

Bob S · Feb 22, 2021

Absolutely Bob. I cherish the 40 years I was SDA. My wife taught in a SDA school for many years and she keeps in contact with many of her students and facality on Facebook. Many of our closest current friends are SDA. We consider them a great family. Our children could not have had a better education than the 16 years in SDA schools.

One thing I am not and that is a hypocrite. I came not to believe everything I was taught, so I had no choice other than to leave the church. To SDAs I am a lost soul. Unless, according to the church, I come back into the faith I will not receive my eternal reward. My goal has been to dispel that myth by debating may issues. I just read the rules for the traditional SDA forum and I see that I should not be here with my views. Evidently the forum has changed and I should abide by the forum rules.

It has been good discussing all that we have. I wish all well and hope to see you all in the everlasting Kingdom. In Christ, Bob

P.S. I will be checking in from time to time to see how it is going.

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2021

Bob S said:
One thing I am not and that is a hypocrite. I came not to believe everything I was taught, so I had no choice other than to leave the church. .

You have free will and can choose whatever course you want.

I am not complaining.

BibleDisciple · Feb 22, 2021

If I studied a subject and concluded differently than what the church taught I was not free to express my conclusion.

Are there any churches where you are free to disagree? I've heard a lot of weird ideas in my days from both ministers and members, but I also don't agree 100% with my church now. I don't believe that any church has everything right. That's not their God ordained purpose.

I don't believe that any 2 people can read the book of Isaiah and agree 100% on every scripture.

I have to say that the SDA's have been really stable in terms of keeping the church unified in one body. You don't see a bunch of splits with only minor differences. For that I applaud them.

Is this true:

To SDAs I am a lost soul. Unless, according to the church, I come back into the faith I will not receive my eternal reward.

I was under the impression that SDA's believe that some Sunday keeping Protestants are saved. How then can someone say that if you leave the SDA denomination that you are no longer saved? The SDA's don't have a monopoly on Sabbath keeping.

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2021

BibleDisciple said:
I was under the impression that SDA's believe that some Sunday keeping Protestants are saved.

It is our belief that given that we are only the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world (according to 2015 Christianity Today article) -- then the majority of saved saints are outside of the SDA church

BibleDisciple said:
How then can someone say that if you leave the SDA denomination that you are no longer saved?

Our 28 Fundamental beliefs are found online and they do not say that - but you are quoting someone here who as posted that they are ex-SDA - so you need to differentiate between the two "sources".

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2021

BibleDisciple said:
If I studied a subject and concluded differently than what the church taught I was not free to express my conclusion.

Are there any churches where you are free to disagree?

If you joined the Baptist Church and decided that the Bible is not the Word of God or that the Trinity is not correct or that believer's baptism is not correct - at some point you would be better served to join a group that believed as you do.

Aside from that - there a great many details where people have different views and yet are still consistent with the main set of doctrines of the group they belong to. That is also true in the SDA church.

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2021

BibleDisciple said:
I don't believe that any 2 people can read the book of Isaiah and agree 100% on every scripture.

Agreed. And that is also true inside the SDA denomination. No problem with that.

I gave another example of a "difference" in post #4 where some use an illustration of something that they are very happy with - while others find that it leads to a wrong implication.

BibleDisciple said:
I have to say that the SDA's have been really stable in terms of keeping the church unified in one body. You don't see a bunch of splits with only minor differences. For that I applaud them.

There have been minor offshoots from time to time - and in some cases offshoots-from-offshoots. It does happen now and then. But overall it is pretty well united and one reason is that we have all the representatives of the 21 million member church - from all over the world - meet once every 5 years and decide/confirm that our statement of beliefs is still clearly expressing the doctrines that we hold.

So for example about ten years ago there was a big interest in a few small segments of the church - in believing evolutionism, so the church voted to strengthen the "specifics" in our statement about creation so that everyone was very very clear that we are not teaching belief in evolutionism.

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