Is Sabbath a shadow?

Saint Steven said:

That is a false claim. Gatherings on the first day of the week preceded the western Latin church. The only way they can make such a claim is to say that the RCC began with Peter. Do you believe that? If not, you shouldn't use such spurious claims.

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It's a quote from the Catholic church, so not my claim, my friend. God is unchanging so therefore the law, the one that starts with the word Remember, His Blessed Holy day can never be changed. Some where along the line, His Holy day was changed from the Biblical seventh day Sabbath to first day Sunday. The Catholics take credit for it, so unless they are lying about changing God's day Holy day, you take it up with them. I prefer the testimonies of God and the example that Jesus left us.

Revelations 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You only find the commandments of God in one place referenced in Exodus 20. Are you saying Jesus contradicted His father? That is not what the Bible teaches us


John 6:38
Jesus said:
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me


God Bless

imge said:

I was giving a little history on how the Sabbath was changed. The Catholic church takes credit for changing God's Holy day from Sabbath to Sunday admitting there was no evidence in the Bible to make such a change and did so with their own authority (not God's). After they changed God's Holy Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday, the other churches followed suit. Not because of the silly augments presented today at least they admitted it was because they wanted to change the day, not under any guidance from scriptures.

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Care to tell us where or who gave you a "little history"? Could it be from The Great Controversy?

Bob S said:

Care to tell us where or who gave you a "little history"? Could it be from The Great Controversy?

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If you would just read the quotes it says where it came from.

Saint Steven said:

How do you destroy the prophets? How do you fulfill the prophets? (doesn't make sense) Unless... you understand.

After his resurrection, Jesus explained what he meant in Matthew 5:17.
The reference was to the Books of the Law, and the Books of the Prophets, and the Psalms. (which also contained prophecies to be fulfilled)

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

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Here is Thayer's notes on the Greek word pleeroo in question
to fulfil, i.e. "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment": Mat 5:17; cf. Weiss, Das Matthäusevang. as above with, p. 146f (Compare: ἀναπληρόω, ἀνταναπληρόω, προσαναπληρόω, ἐκπληρόω, συμπληρόω.)*

Here is Robertson's citation on the verse and Greek word in His Book , Word Pictures in the New Testament.
I came not to destroy, but to fulfil (ουκ ηλθον καταλυσα αλλα πληρωσα). The verb "destroy" means to "loosen down" as of a house or tent (2Co 5:1). Fulfil is to fill full. This Jesus did to the ceremonial law which pointed to him and the moral law he kept. "He came to fill the law, to reveal the full depth of meaning that it was intended to hold" (McNeile).


And the BDAG citation

Mt 5:17; depending on how one prefers to interpret the context, πληρόω is understood here either as fulfill=do, carry out, or as bring to full expression=show it forth in its true mng., or as fill up=complete

Now shall we consider context? Let's....

If the law were to be fulfilled in the sense of done away with, then the following warning within the same passage is irrelevant.

Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth have not passed away so not one jot or tittle has passed from the law. Because ALL has not been fulfilled

Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

THEREFORE whosoever shall break one of the least of these commandments and teach men so so shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven. Because heaven and earth have not passed away, all has not been fulfilled. So not one jot or tittle from the law has passed.

Matt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

If we do and teach men to break one of the least of the commandments we shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven because not one jot or tittle has passed from the law because the all has not been fulfilled. Our righteousness had not exceeded the righteousness of the Pharisees. We shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.


And then our Lord and Savior proceeds to give a testimony to what least of these commandments he is referring to.
He goes on to quote some of the Ten and also some of the moral laws contained in the Book of the Law.

Saint Steven said:

Your own post proves my point. Moses wrote the commands of God, they weren't the commands of Moses.

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The commandments of God was written by God.
Exodus 32:16
The tablets were God’s work, and the writing was God’s writing engraved on the tablets.

Exodus 31:18
When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.

The only scripture written by God in the entire Bible and the commandment that starts with Remember (opposite of forget) is not valid in your opinion?

I pray for the people reading these posts that they may read the scriptures as God intended purely and plainly written. God Bless

Saint Steven said:

That's a good reference. Here's another one.
Especially interesting because it refers to BOTH "the law" and "the Law and the Prophets". (two different things)

Romans 3:21 NIV
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

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Why do we need grace if there is no law? You are misinterpreting this scripture.

Saint Steven said:

snip

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Prove what was in the post wrong. Here it is again.
"Speculation. Wiki is no proof. And said proof was gather by miss translated letters from after 100 AD. You bring the letters up from Ignatius and we will show you where they are mistranslated."

mmksparbud said:

You don't have to on this earth or the next. God won't have anyone there who feels they don't need to worship Him. Everybody else will be so I guess you won't be. OK, that's your choice. You will either worship God---when He says and how He says---or you will be holding hands with Satan while you both burn! There is no 3rd choice. It is God's way or the Highway to hell.

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This is a pretty blatant claim that those who do not observe the Sabbath are damned to hell. Thus inferring that salvation is by the works of the law. Yet you all seem to claim that salvation is NOT by works. Explain.

imge said:

The only scripture written by God in the entire Bible and the commandment that starts with Remember (opposite of forget) is not valid in your opinion?

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To whom was it written? (the Israelites in the wilderness)

Deuteronomy 5:1-3
Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

imge said:

Why do we need grace if there is no law? You are misinterpreting this scripture.

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Grace and the law; like oil and water. (don't mix)

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

HIM said:

Prove what was in the post wrong. Here it is again.
"Speculation. Wiki is no proof. And said proof was gather by miss translated letters from after 100 AD. You bring the letters up from Ignatius and we will show you where they are mistranslated."

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Well, the majority of the church meets on the first day of the week. Tell me how you think that came to be. Then I will better understand your perspective on the matter. I have no interest in arguing about Ignatius quotes.

If you claim that the RCC changed the Sabbath to Sunday, where does that leave us? Do you side with the SDA who claim that anyone who doesn't observe the seventh day Sabbath is hell-bound?

imge said:

If you would just read the quotes it says where it came from.

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Somehow those"quotes" vanished. Could you please give them to us again?

Saint Steven said:

Well, the majority of the church meets on the first day of the week. Tell me how you think that came to be. Then I will better understand your perspective on the matter. I have no interest in arguing about Ignatius quotes.

If you claim that the RCC changed the Sabbath to Sunday, where does that leave us? Do you side with the SDA who claim that anyone who doesn't observe the seventh day Sabbath is hell-bound?

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Mathew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

So does the Bible teach the majority will find the wide path? Do you want to be in the majority of today or the minority of the ones who obey the commandments of God and take the narrow path?

If the 10 commandments was only for the Jews than why......?

Revelations 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You only find the commandments of God in one place referenced in Exodus 20. Are you saying Jesus contradicted His father? That is not what the Bible teaches us

John 6:38
Jesus said:
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me

Mathew 22:40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." So take what Jesus said and apply it to the whole law! Jesus told us He came to do the will of His father. Does God need to repeat Himself for you to Remember?

Revelations 12:17 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Why would the devil be enraged by keeping God's commandments if they were only for Israel? Notice the word the commandments of God again found only in Exodus 20

But Gods promise to those who keep His commandments

Revelations 22
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

and outside are those that:

15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

God Bless that we all find the narrow path that leads to Salvation.

Saint Steven said:

So, you are unfamiliar with Romans chapter fourteen? Romans 14:5, 20 5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. ... 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

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Until you add the context back in then you will see there is no mention of God's 4th commandment Sabbath at all anywhere in Romans 14 and it is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days not and judging others in this regard.

Saint Steven said:

So, do you believe that we will be back to blood sacrifice on the new heaven and earth? What will be the purpose of a New Moon festival at that time? And frankly, Sanitarians use that scripture to claim that we will be observing the Sabbath on the new heaven and earth, yet they are not observing the New Moon now.

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The new moons are for times and seasons. Not sure about your but I believe Gods' Word when it says in Isaiah 66:22-23 [22], For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, said the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.[23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, said the LORD. Not looking too good for those who knowingly break God's 4th commandment when James says those who knowingly do so is sin *James 2:10-11; James 4:17.

Saint Steven said:

Are you claiming salvation by works?
First you say "Works of the law...NEVER SAVED..."
Then you say, "only He and our faith in Him compels us to live as He did...live His faith...the lifestyle OF Yahushua...to Love AS He loved us...JUST AS...thus fulfilling the law...which we establish as our faith does NOT make it void..."

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God's Word through James teaches us that faith without works is dead and not the faith of JESUS *James 2:18-20; 26. No one loves God or their fellow man by breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments *John 14:15; John 15:10; 1 John 5:3; 2 John 1:6

Saint Steven said:

Are you claiming that Jesus was observing the Sabbath? I don't see any evidence of that. And certainly his actions and teaching say otherwise.

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Goodness we must read a different bible...

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; Ezekiel 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

For me I prefer the bible...

Saint Steven said:

I'm not under the law.
How many more posts do you think it will take to convince me otherwise?

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No one is "under the law" if they have through faith repented of their sins and are now believing and following Gods' Word. We are only "under the law" if we we stand before God knowingly breaking God's Law once he has given us a knowledge of the truth of his Word and we reject it *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Romans 3:19-20; Hebrews 10:26-31. According to the scriptures in James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and sin will keep all those who practice it out of God's kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-31

Saint Steven said:

There are at least 311 commands in the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. Why would you limit it to ten?

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How many commandments are in God's 10 commandments? Is there 9; 10, 613 or 1050? Hints are provided above and the answers provided in Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4 for those interested.

Saint Steven said:

A Bible search (NIV) for the words "sabbath new moon" yield 14 results.
You can't really separate the two, even under the new covenant.

Isaiah 66:23
From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

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The new moon was used to determine times and seasons and the annual feast days and the annual ceremonial sabbaths in these feast days. This is yet simply more evidence that Colossians 2:16 has nothing to do with Gods' 4th commandment. On the other hand, God's 4th commandment has nothing to do with the new Moon as it is simply every seventh day of the week. Thanks for sharing.