want to talk about OSAS?

Are you an OSAS believer?

  • yes

    Votes: 27 43.5%
  • no

    Votes: 32 51.6%
  • of course

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    62

Jesus is YHWH

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It's not like God leaves any believer, don't know where you got that from my post.

I believe we are elect now for a destination, heaven. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit, like a letter got a stamp on it to be delivered to the destination. As long as the stamp is there the letter will be delivered.
sealed with the Holy Spirit Ephesian 1:13

sphragizó: to seal
Original Word: σφραγίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sphragizó
Phonetic Spelling: (sfrag-id'-zo)
Definition: to seal
Usage: I seal, set a seal upon.

4972 /sphragízō ("to seal") signifies ownership and the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. "Sealing" in the ancient world served as a "legal signature" which guaranteed the promise (contents) of what was sealed.

This sealing is our guaranteed inheritance.

hope this helps !!!
 
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KurtHectic

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OSAS also contradicts what Jesus said directly about following his commandments.

the only people who spread OSAD are liars who don’t believe in God and want to pervert everyone into not following Jesus Christ and just doing whatever they want since they are attached to worldly living.

Anyone who subscribed to the Kingdom of God instead doesn’t even think of OSAS. They know God loves them and saved them by sending them Jesus Christ. And they are happy to always do their best to follow him knowing that if they let go, they reject God’s saving of them, which was conditional on avoiding Satan and following Jesus.


Godspeed.
 
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zoidar

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Sounds like what I thought you were saying before--a temporary or provisional status only.

"only"... Well, that's what I believe. Wouldn't word it the way you do though. If it turns out I'm wrong, then hopefully I will come to the correct understanding.

Edit: Not sure what you mean by provisional. I believe we are saved by faith through the Holy Spirit, yet not all keep their faith.
 
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Albion

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"only"... Well, that's what I believe.
Okay. I was only having a little discussion with you, kicking some ideas around, as it were. I wasn't intending to vilify anyone over this doctrinal 'toughie.'

Edit: Not sure what you mean by provisional. I believe we are saved by faith through the Holy Spirit, yet not all keep their faith.
By provisional I mean not necessarily permanent.

What you explain in this paragraph seems to me to negate "Elect" by any standard or interpretation of the word, and yet there is it in Scripture. :scratch:
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Telling somebody what they believe and then refuting what you claim they believe is a loser argument.

Arminianism

A drunkard is not going to see they have a drinking problem. People who hold to unbiblical beliefs cannot see the problems that are inherent within them. If I am wrong, then go ahead and point out where you think I am wrong according to the Bible.

I am also aware that there are different versions of Calvinism and different versions of OSAS. But they all have their own unique problems. There is even those who deny OSAS but they still justify a sin and still be saved type belief (i.e. Free Will Baptists). So I am very aware of the differences of their beliefs that do not agree with the Bible. I discovered these differences by listening to what the person had to say. But that still does not mean any of them are following what the Bible says in regards to sin and salvation. That is my belief according to the Bible. So please take no offense.
 
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Kenny'sID

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There is even those who deny OSAS but they still justify a sin and still be saved type belief (i.e. Free Will Baptists).

That seems to be a part that is taught among all versions of Calvinism/OSAS. I honestly believe that is what the whole thing is about, creating a religion where we can have our cake and eat it to, sin all we like and still go to heaven, at least for some.

And the people who fall for it are not innocent and deceived by others, they allow themselves to be deceived, or deceive themselves because they want to do it their way, not God's way. Its all their own choice out of sheer selfishness.

They fall right into Satans trap if they are sinning regularly, and depending on OSAS to save them.
 
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zoidar

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Okay. I was only having a little discussion with you, kicking some ideas around, as it were. I wasn't intending to vilify anyone over this doctrinal 'toughie.'


By provisional I mean not necessarily permanent.

What you explain in this paragraph seems to me to negate "Elect" by any standard or interpretation of the word, and yet there is it in Scripture. :scratch:

No problem Albion! I'm not a scholar and can of course be wrong on things. For me Scripture has a lot of pieces, I'm doing my best to put together. I'm learning a lot on this forum.
 
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Albion

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That seems to be a part that is taught among all versions of Calvinism/OSAS.


There is nothing special about believing that if we sin, after conversion, we can still be saved.

This is different, however, from thinking that once you've had a conversion experience you are free to sin to your heart's content since you are guaranteed of being saved just the same. I know of almost no denominations which teach that!
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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That seems to be a part that is taught among all versions of Calvinism/OSAS. I honestly believe that is what the whole thing is about, creating a religion where we can have our cake and eat it to, sin all we like and still go to heaven, at least for some.

And the people who fall for it are not innocent and deceived by others, they allow themselves to be deceived, or deceive themselves because they want to do it their way, not God's way. Its all their own choice out of sheer selfishness.

They fall right into Satans trap if they are sinning regularly, and depending on OSAS to save them.
Another blatant misrepresentation of what reformed people believe. They live to please Christ and obey Him and not to live for self but for others and to reach them with the gospel.

hope this helps !!!
 
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Kenny'sID

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And plenty of other Christians affiliated with other denominations as well.

There is nothing special about believing that if we sin, after conversion, we can still be saved.

This is different, however, from thinking that once you've had a conversion experience you are free to sin to your heart's content since you are guaranteed of being saved just the same. I know of almost no denominations which teach that!

I was very clear, and specific when said:

They fall right into Satans trap if they are sinning regularly, and depending on OSAS to save them.

Or sinning to theit hearts content.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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I was very clear, and specific when said:



Or sinning to theit hearts content.
No believer I know wants or desires to sin until their heart is content. Another caricature of your which you made up.
 
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1an

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What can "elect" mean if NOT saved?

Chosen to perform some particular task? That's not compatible with what we read in John 10. Or just temporarily "elect?" But does that even make sense?
Someone like Moses or Judas. They were elected by God, probably from the foundation of the earth to do a particular job. This was all part of God's plan. John 10 is about the Good Shepherd and a discourse on the deity of Jesus.

All people were elected to be saved, the crucifixion was the culmination of God's plan of salvation. So was free-will. That way only those who loved him and chose him and made a decision for him would be part of His kingdom, and not a world full of robots who have no choice. God is not a dictator. This is why and how people can wander away and this is why we are warned against it, because it is possible. Jesus invited us to come to him, he did not press gang us into it as the theory of election would have it.
.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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This is simply not true. The quote by John Wesley made in this very forum refutes such statements made by OSAS proponents here in this very thread.

I have also studied OSAS for 10 years, and most appear to justify sin in some way, and not holy living according to the Bible. For no OSAS believer believes that one loses their salvation via when they sin. They think king David was saved WHILE he was committing his sins of adultery and murder. This kind of teaching can lead many to think that one can go out and murder and commit adultery and still be saved. In fact, George Sodini believed just that. George Sodini murdered a bunch of people and then he took his own life and in his own suicide letter, he wrote that he would be saved and his future sins would be paid for by having a belief alone on Jesus and not of works. Even one of his own church members had said George was saved despite this grizzly incident. So people actually believe this junk. Eternal Security is going to lead a believer to justify sin in some way. I know this first hand. I have seen it. Those who appear for holiness in OSAS, I later have found out that they do not stand for the holiness as described in the Bible.
Wesleys sinless perfectionism is a false teaching and is heresy.
 
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RickReads

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A drunkard is not going to see they have a drinking problem. People who hold to unbiblical beliefs cannot see the problems that are inherent within them. If I am wrong, then go ahead and point out where you think I am wrong according to the Bible.

I am also aware that there are different versions of Calvinism and different versions of OSAS. But they all have their own unique problems. There is even those who deny OSAS but they still justify a sin and still be saved type belief (i.e. Free Will Baptists). So I am very aware of the differences of their beliefs that do not agree with the Bible. I discovered these differences by listening to what the person had to say. But that still does not mean any of them are following what the Bible says in regards to sin and salvation. That is my belief according to the Bible. So please take no offense.

I only have a minute so this will do for now.

" And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know."
 
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1an

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No, you're merely identifying people who were selected by God for some purpose.
Of course, and it was no ordinary purpose, it was the very reason for the salvation of mankind.

So look if people think they were elected, for what purpose were they elected? What have they done to warrent their election? What makes them so special? Will Jesus be saying to them, "well done my good and faithful SERVENT, or do they think they should be riding round in a golden carriage like the queen of England.

Basically what do you think is the purpose of election? Please tell.
.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Of course, and it was no ordinary purpose, it was the very reason for the salvation of mankind.

So look if people think they were elected, for what purpose were they elected? What have they done to warrent their election? What makes them so special? Will Jesus be saying to them, "well done my good and faithful SERVENT, or do they think they should be riding round in a golden carriage like the queen of England.

Basically what do you think is the purpose of election? Please tell.
.
Romans 9
Rom 9:11-23
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad — in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls — she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,

and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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the only people who spread OSAD are liars who don’t believe in God and want to pervert everyone into not following Jesus Christ and just doing whatever they want since they are attached to worldly living.
I think it is a lot more complex than that.

I'm not sure where it comes from (Calvinistic theology?) but those that follow and teach it can be just as Godly, perhaps even more so than those of who aren't. It is very easy to be mistaken in many things, this included, but that doesn't make them liars or unbelievers or desiring to lead others away from Jesus (on the contrary - they want people to be saved).
 
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returntosender

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OSAS also contradicts what Jesus said directly about following his commandments.

the only people who spread OSAD are liars who don’t believe in God and want to pervert everyone into not following Jesus Christ and just doing whatever they want since they are attached to worldly living.

Anyone who subscribed to the Kingdom of God instead doesn’t even think of OSAS. They know God loves them and saved them by sending them Jesus Christ. And they are happy to always do their best to follow him knowing that if they let go, they reject God’s saving of them, which was conditional on avoiding Satan and following Jesus.


Godspeed.
That's asking Jesus to much to have to continue to die on the cross for our sins It was not a temporary action on his part. It was once for all.
 
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