Is Sabbath a shadow?

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Saint Steven

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Oh wow...so you now have Him LYING AND sinning as that is NOT doing His Father’s will as He claimed He did...
Not at all.
He was deconstructing the law in preparation for grace.
As you know, he was Lord of the Sabbath, so it was his call.
Do you remember the story about gathering heads of wheat/corn on the Sabbath?
What reasons did he give to justify his actions?
 
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HIM

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The reference to the Lord's Day was prior to the vision. "when I turned I saw..."
And frankly, the discussion of the end does not begin until many chapters later.

Revelation 1:10-12
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
If the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath the Lord's Day is the Sabbath.

Matt 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Matt 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Matt 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Matt 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Matt 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
 
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Saint Steven

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You try hard to ignore what you don't want to do. God's law is the 10---period.
There are at least 311 commands in the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. Why would you limit it to ten?
 
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HIM

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Not at all.
He was deconstructing the law in preparation for grace.
As you know, he was Lord of the Sabbath, so it was his call.
Do you remember the story about gathering heads of wheat/corn on the Sabbath?
What reasons did he give to justify his actions?
Grace has always been.
Deconstructing the Law?
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Fulfil not destroy or deconstruct.
 
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mmksparbud

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There are at least 311 commands in the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. Why would you limit it to ten?

I am not limiting it---God Himself made the difference between them. I gave you the verses that calls them the law of Moses and you're still refusing to acknowledge it!
The 10, the only ones written by God Himself with His own finger, written on stone, kept inside His mercy seat (His throne). Eternal.
The Law of Moses----dictated by God, written by Moses on parchment---kept outside of the ark. temporary.

This has all been said before, many times. You tire me---going for now.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So, you would call the Catholic Church a reliable witness on the Sabbath/Sunday, but then call them the end times antichrist beast power in the next breath?

First day gatherings did not originate in the western Latin church, but rather in the eastern Early church. The Didache (teachings of the twelve Apostles) confirms that first day of the week gatherings were the norm. It even uses the term "the Lord's Day" for us, from Rev.1:10 "On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit..." Ask your Catholic friends what day of the week that refers to. They will be happy to tell you.
I was giving a little history on how the Sabbath was changed. The Catholic church takes credit for changing God's Holy day from Sabbath to Sunday admitting there was no evidence in the Bible to make such a change and did so with their own authority (not God's). After they changed God's Holy Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday, the other churches followed suit. Not because of the silly augments presented today at least they admitted it was because they wanted to change the day, not under any guidance from scriptures.
 
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Saint Steven

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The new moon was a blood sacrifice ritual
A Bible search (NIV) for the words "sabbath new moon" yield 14 results.
You can't really separate the two, even under the new covenant.

Isaiah 66:23
From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
 
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Saint Steven

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I gave you the verses that calls them the law of Moses and you're still refusing to acknowledge it!
The BOOK is called the Law of Moses, but the laws are from God. The only law that Moses created on his own was the certificate of divorce.

Matthew 19:7-8
“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
 
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Saint Steven

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Mal_4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Your own post proves my point. Moses wrote the commands of God, they weren't the commands of Moses.
 
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Saint Steven

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If the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath the Lord's Day is the Sabbath.
Well, "the Lord's Day" is NOT the Sabbath. The "Lord's Day" is the first day of the week, the day of our Lord's resurrection, the queen of days, according to the early church.

Lord's Day - Wikipedia
 
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pasifika

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Yup...Found fault with the people...NOT the Law...the law did it’s job...point out sin...and to One Who does perfect His people...by their faith in Him and the work He does in them to perfect them...regenerate them to be MORE like Him His ways...and finally to put on immortality and be RE-stored to Him as it was prior this detour of sin...

You know when Sabbath was made for man...made in His Image to do AS HE DID...with factory installed manufacturer’s default settings...six days work...seventh day rest...made Holy...like His people
Yup the old covenant requires men to do what God said read Exodus 19 how this old covenant is established...so yes the people are the problem because they cannot follow a righteous law...under the new covenant is God who fulfilled and made us walk and follow His law Not men...
So you are following a law( old covenant) out of your own understanding and interpretation Not God...

Yes the Sabbath was made for man...it didn’t say the 7th day Sabbath? Sabbath does not mean 7th day it means rest...
 
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Saint Steven

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If the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath the Lord's Day is the Sabbath.

Matt 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Matt 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Matt 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Matt 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Matt 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
How did Jesus answer this accusation?
“Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” - Matthew 12:2

1) He implicated himself by using an example of "David and his companions".
2) He compared it to David eating the shewbread, which was unlawful.
3) He compares it to the priests who profane the sabbath.

Any denial of lawbreaking there? (nope)
 
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pasifika

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Are you claiming salvation by works?
First you say "Works of the law...NEVER SAVED..."
Then you say, "only He and our faith in Him compels us to live as He did...live His faith...the lifestyle OF Yahushua...to Love AS He loved us...JUST AS...thus fulfilling the law...which we establish as our faith does NOT make it void..."
Yes these sabbath believers don’t understand the old covenant commandments is based on mans own works for Righteousness..Philippians 3:9
 
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Saint Steven

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Grace has always been.
Deconstructing the Law?
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Fulfil not destroy or deconstruct.
How do you destroy the prophets? How do you fulfill the prophets? (doesn't make sense) Unless... you understand.

After his resurrection, Jesus explained what he meant in Matthew 5:17.
The reference was to the Books of the Law, and the Books of the Prophets, and the Psalms. (which also contained prophecies to be fulfilled)

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
 
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HIM

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Well, "the Lord's Day" is NOT the Sabbath. The "Lord's Day" is the first day of the week, the day of our Lord's resurrection, the queen of days, according to the early church.

Lord's Day - Wikipedia
Speculation. Wiki is no proof. And said proof was gather by miss translated letters from after 100 AD. You bring the letters up from Ignatius and we will show you where they are mistranslated.
 
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Bob S

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Now Bob, if you do not know why I have posted something is it not easier to ask.

The Greek word used here does not say "WAS" it is G1096 γέγονεν which means "HAS BECOME" which in the Greek is "perfect indicative active" (present tense).

More specifically....

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G1096
γίνομαι; ginomai A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (" gen" -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

PARALLEL TRANSLATIONS

Berean Study Bible
So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Berean Literal Bible
so that the Law has become our trainer unto Christ, so that we might be justified by faith.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

NET Bible
Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith.

New Heart English Bible
So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

New American Standard 1977
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.

American Standard Version
So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Darby Bible Translation
So that the law has been our tutor up to Christ, that we might be justified on the principle of faith.

English Revised Version
So that the law hath been our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Weymouth New Testament
So that the Law has acted the part of a tutor-slave to lead us to Christ, in order that through faith we may be declared to be free from guilt.

World English Bible
So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Young's Literal Translation
so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous

..............

The scripture continues...

[24], Therefore the Law has become our tutor/schoolmaster/guardian to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. [25], But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor/schoolmaster/guardian.

Note the scriptures are not saying that God's law is abolished like some teach. It is saying that the purpose (perfect indicative active) of the law is to bring us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith and the whole idea of the law is every time we sin in our lives it is to bring us to Christ as to be "Under the law" according to Romans 3:19 we stand guilty before God of sin. When faith has come and the law leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith we are not longer guilty before God "Under the law" but forgiven through faith *Romans 8:1-4 and YES Bob I write my own posts and do my own prayerful study of God's Word seeking God to be my guide and teacher and claiming his promises because I am no one without him only a voice crying in the wilderness to make straight the paths of the Lord. As Paul says elsewhere in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

Probably best to ask next time Bob.

Hope this helps.
Hold on there partner not so fast, now you have to re-interpret verse 25 to conclude all your findings like you did with verse 24. If, in fact, all that the "facts" you have assembled why does Paul go on in verse 25 to tell us the Jews are no longer under the Law?
24 Wherefore the law is was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Probably best to look beyond just the one verse next time LGW.

Concerning Rom 3:31 might I refer you to the verses preceding verse 31? I glean from those verses that gentiles were never under the law now does it, yet we are sinners. Now how could that be LGW? Verse 31 is not telling us we are under the law. If it were so then that one verse would undermine all the previous verses. You use that one verse as a proof text to prove your belief and come to find out it is like many verses used to only undermine the message Paul is so elegantly teaching us. Gentiles are and never have been under the laws of the Sinai covenant. To try to teach that somehow we are now under it because Paul uses the word "establish" is a false teaching and trying to convince us otherwise should end immediately.

Thanks for clarifying your own study and your own composition. Do you study each verse you use to prove your point because when I open those proof verses I find that many of them have no meaning to the subject.

Now as to the word "was" used in Gal 3. Seems like even the translation of "was" can be cherry picked. And of course you used the one that had leaning to the word "is". The one I used doesn't lean in that direction. Most of the Bible translations do not lean to the word "is" either. I wonder why some people think their meaning of certain words in the Bible are so much better than the scholars that did the translating? Do some people believe we cannot trust any Bibles because of faulty translations. How do you translate verse 25 to agree with your translation of verse 24?

#1096 γίνομαι ginomai {ghin'-om-ahee}

a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb;
TDNT - 1:681,117; v

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
2a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
3a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished
4a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made

24 Wherefore the law is was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Was = finished. Was = to become. Once again when you use the word "is" in verse 24 you negate verse 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
 
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Saint Steven

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I was giving a little history on how the Sabbath was changed. The Catholic church takes credit for changing God's Holy day from Sabbath to Sunday...
That is a false claim. Gatherings on the first day of the week preceded the western Latin church. The only way they can make such a claim is to say that the RCC began with Peter. Do you believe that? If not, you shouldn't use such spurious claims.
 
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Saint Steven

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Yes these sabbath believers don’t understand the old covenant commandments is based on mans own works for Righteousness..Philippians 3:9
That's a good reference. Here's another one.
Especially interesting because it refers to BOTH "the law" and "the Law and the Prophets". (two different things)

Romans 3:21 NIV
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
 
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Saint Steven

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Speculation. Wiki is no proof. And said proof was gather by miss translated letters from after 100 AD. You bring the letters up from Ignatius and we will show you where they are mistranslated.
You fight hard to stay under the law. Why?
I think the whole thing is "a yoke". - lol

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Acts 15:10
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?
 
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Yup the old covenant requires men to do what God said read Exodus 19 how this old covenant is established...so yes the people are the problem because they cannot follow a righteous law...under the new covenant is God who fulfilled and made us walk and follow His law Not men...
So you are following a law( old covenant) out of your own understanding and interpretation Not God...

Yes the Sabbath was made for man...it didn’t say the 7th day Sabbath? Sabbath does not mean 7th day it means rest...
I could not agree more. The Israelites never found the REST yet they tried to observe the seventh day Sabbath. It is so interesting that God never required any other nation to be seventh day Sabbath observant, but He so freely has told us to come unto Him and find rest. His invitation is today, we don't have to wait to find rest on the seventh day.
 
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